maturin Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 The example he gave me was "the author ould have either written this clearly OR left it like it is, and we can complain or cry and have the option to actually do both". Brilliant! I'm convinced, though I suspect RAI is different... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Whilst I'm certainly no professor of English, I am a native speaker and the common usage would take the "or" to mean that the options are mutually exclusive. You may have A or B but not both. To be honest, I'm struggling to see what the difficulty is with this codex entry as it seems perfectly straightforward in the way it is written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raeven Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 While ive (reluctantly) come to accept a verdict of and/or I do want to point out that the word "or" is a coordinating conjunction and that it does not necessitate an exclusion or addition from or with any following words or concepts. The use of the word "either" as a leading concept would have solved this problem. Strictly speaking the listing presents two options which are not necessarily mutually exclusive but instead possibly complimentary. At least according to my stupid English Professor, useless subject *grumble grumble* /sigh. The example he gave me was "the author ould have either written this clearly OR left it like it is, and we can complain or cry and have the option to actually do both". Except the accepted standard in game Rules is that *Or* is always exclusive, unless noted otherwise by and/or, or other devices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Immortals Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Then why would they ever bother to state "either or"? Its poorly written and even GW change there wording and usage from edition to edition and even between codex's. It sstill not possilble to take all options though so dont worry too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyroknight Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I think the placement of the bullet point in the list is extremely relevant to this discussion. If there were two bullet points, we would be talking about different options. It wouldn't matter how many CC weapons you took, or what you swapped for. Since all of this is under a single bullet point, I am led to believe they are talking about connected things. This is a "choose one of the following" list, where you are allowed to do exactly one of the following options and that prevents you from doing any of the others. This is consistent with the way the other bullet points are handled in the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacinda Posted October 8, 2012 Author Share Posted October 8, 2012 It looks like we have a good consensus of "either/or but never both." I can live with that. Thanks for indulging me, everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 If I'm reading the section correctly, there is no way for the noise champion to get a ccw and therefore an extra attack for a power weapon. We can go with a claw or fist though. How odd... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacinda Posted October 12, 2012 Author Share Posted October 12, 2012 How odd... That seems to be the motto of this codex ... You can't have a powerfist and a combi weapon on your terminators, but you can give the reaper carrier a chainfist. How odd... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krimsonkilla Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 If I'm reading the section correctly, there is no way for the noise champion to get a ccw and therefore an extra attack for a power weapon. We can go with a claw or fist though. How odd... if a "Noise Marine Champion" is also a "Noise Marine" then he can take any options in the ranged/melee wargear section as well as the option of the ccw for x points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah Mk.231 Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 A "Noise Champion" is a seperate entry to "Noise Marine" as much as a "Aspiring Champion" is to a "Chaos Space Marine". They're both part of the same unit, but have seperate options available to them. A Noise Champion while technically a Noise Marine is not actually classed as a Noise Marine, but rather as a Noise Champion. The options presented to Noise Marines are not avaiable to him, so he can't take a sonic blaster or blastmaster. Along the same lines, you can't give an Aspiring Champion a heavy bolter as it is an option for Chaos Space Marines, not Aspiring Champions. Since the entry doesn't state "Any Noise Marine, including the Noise Champion may take option x ..." and includes the Noise Champion's options in the next column, it's fairly apparent he doesn't actually have that option. However, he does have the option to carry the unit's icon since the option is available to One model in the unit, without making distinction between Noise Marine and Noise Champion. As for a Noise Champion not being able to get an extra attack for a power weapon, he can, so long as he swaps out his bolter for a plasma pistol (since he has to trade his bolt pistol to get the power weapon in the first place, he can't trade it out for another option or simply keep it to gain the extra attack, but the Ranged Weapons list states he may trade any weapon, so he trades it for a plasma pistol ... not cheap I know, but unlike the Chaos Space Marine entry, the Noise Marine entry doesn't include "Close combat weapon (Champion only)" as standard gear). And that thing about technically being able to take 8 chainswords if you were feeling silly: GW made it pretty clear that you could only select a particular option once per model (or unit if a unit upgrade) in the Dark Angels FAQ. The question was asked whether a Dark Angels Tactical Squad could purchase the "May add 5 additional marines to the squad for x points" multiple times to get a technically unlimited size squad since no upper limit was specified. The answer was a very clear "No, once you've bought it once, you can't buy it subsequent times". The same ruling would apply to buying a close combat weapon, once you've selected it for a model, you've exhausted the option for that model. For example, once you buy Gift of Mutation for your champion, you can't buy it for the same champion a second, third or even tenth time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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