minigun762 Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 How are people planning on dealing with the Chaos requirement for always engaging in challenges? I'm in the fence whether or not I should build my units around it or just ignore it and build towards a particular goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ifrit446 Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 How would you build your unit specifically FOR the challenge?? I dont understand that... In my opinion, just give the Champ a power weapon and meltabombs to deal with vehicles and you should be ok. I'm also debating giving him a combi-weapon or plasma pistol for some extra shooty potential. In case you want to ignore it, whatre you thinking of doing otherwise?? Just sacking the Champ since they have to accept any challenge while the rest of your unit wails on the enemy?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 I'm probably just going to give my normal CSM squads power weapons. As for the chosen, terminators etc I'll be gearing each to be able to take on different challenges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinsanity Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 How to build around it? Depends on the character you want to save/abuse. If you have a P'Fist wielding character, make sure you add a P'Mace wielding sarge to the unit. That way the sarge can accept any challenge, hopefully stun the opponent and thus, if he dies your fist wielder gets to strike at the same time as the opponent... Of course, if the opponent has no AP2/3 (depending on your fist wielder), feel free to punch him into a paste right away... (of course this applies to pretty much any army, it's just that a lone P'Fist lord could get munched to pieces by a powersword sarge since he wouldn't have a chance of declining the challenge, something other characters could do to avoid a similar fate) Just one possibility :P Note : Not yet being familiar with the specifics of CSM's always accept challenges rule, this is only an assumption, of course... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimerical Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Depends on the Mark. Slaanesh marked champions will definitely have power swords. Plague Marine champions I'd probably still give a power fist. For all others, I'd probably leave them naked, or consider a chainaxe. But I think these setups have become a luxury more than a necessity. I'd be relying on having more bodies and attacks in any given assault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ifrit446 Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 How to build around it? Depends on the character you want to save/abuse. If you have a P'Fist wielding character, make sure you add a P'Mace wielding sarge to the unit. That way the sarge can accept any challenge, hopefully stun the opponent and thus, if he dies your fist wielder gets to strike at the same time as the opponent... Of course, if the opponent has no AP2/3 (depending on your fist wielder), feel free to punch him into a paste right away... Quick question about the ruling of a challenge...If your champ dies before your Lord with Pfist strikes, can he redeem the champion right away by pulverising the enemy Sarge?? Or does it have to happen in the next turn?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urauloth Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 No he can't. Small rulebook p.64, "combatant slain". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearingtheword Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 The only characters I worry about having to accept challenges on are my HQ units, so I'll run them with a retinue that contains a champ built to deal with the challenges while my IC/HQ's can rip through the opponents units. In general your HQ's are going to have a higher number of attacks as well as slightly better weapons and weapon skill, than Champions will, but you can build your champions to try to tarpit other characters while a second character in the unit can lay waste to the other members of the unit. In my case, I have a Dark Apostle and a Chaos Lord (Coryphaeus) as my IC/HQ's. The DA has a Dark Crozius (Power Maul) that is much more effective against groups than in single combat for the most part and the Lord has a Lightning Claw which is much better geared for hammering on the group instead of the IC as well, not to mention that I don't want to be giving up that "Slay the Warlord" VP in my games. ~BtW Edit: Geebus, the bloody morphine is playing hell with my typing and grammar.....It's really starting to piss me off :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJL Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 As for the chosen, terminators etc I'll be gearing each to be able to take on different challenges. unfortunately the only one who can accept and issue challanges in a chosen and terminator squad is the champion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verythrax Draconis Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 I'm thinking about it as well... it forces us to have nicely equipped champions... very fluffy, but gears quite a cost increase... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearingtheword Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 As for the chosen, terminators etc I'll be gearing each to be able to take on different challenges. unfortunately the only one who can accept and issue challanges in a chosen and terminator squad is the champion. Yeah, unfortunately we lost the ability to upgrade all the termies in the squad to champions like we could last 'dex. ~BtW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAR Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 I honestly like it....helps me but I plan on taking Lucius as my hq surrounded by noise marines equipped for meleeอ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.darkness Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 If you want to protect a certain character then make sure that he has a champion to protect him. Make sure however, that you do give the lord a chance, because sometimes they could do with a roll on the boon table. If you have slaanesh champion, then give him am sword, and you'll eat a lot of challenges. I he is nurgle, then he has such a low ini, then you may as well give him an axe or fist. Ini 4 guys should probablY go with sword, because then at least you will strike before anyone who has a fist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totgeboren Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 I understand the need to protect units like the Sorc and the DA, but a Lord should have little trouble dealing with challanges. I'm more scared of my Lord turning into a spawn than being powerfisted by some lousy enemy sergeant. And don't forget that we can give our Lords a 2+/3++ save now if we want to, whilst still having both hands free. 2+/3++ save, with a powerfist and an LC... over 170 pts, but that is one evil mofo. Other than that, I think powerswords or maces are the way to go for standard champs, though most of mine have fists... Need to rummage through my bitz box I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RapatoR Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Guys don't forget that we can give our champs both PF and Power Weapon but more importantly LC for the same price as PW and this gives you extra attack on both weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 I wouldn't mind it to much. You should always keep in mind that challenges are there and a Powerfist champ can get taken out. Then again, the fist does it's best job vs Vechicles and thus picking your battles (somewhat) is important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panda_ Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Many mentionned giving Power Swords to their AC. Yet a single LC doesn't cost more while beeing more effective. Without charge the LC is equal/superior3 Power Sword attacks (4CC, 4S) is 0.75 wounds (4CC, 4T) 2 LC attacks (4CC, 4S) is 0.75 wounds (4CC, 4T) With charge the LC is superior 4 Power Sword attacks (4CC, 4S) is 1 wounds (4CC, 4T) 3 LC attacks (4CC, 4S) is 1.125 wounds (4CC, 4T) Ok, our Aspiring Champions are quite (no inv save) good challengers. With a Long War Veterans, Lightning Claws and MoSlaanesh (high odds to inflict 2+ ap3 wounds at I5), they will shred any Loyalist Sergeant (and many Xenos). I've got a problem through. How many will simply refuse our challenges ? Many will prefers loose 2 injuries than giving away 1 roll and 1 injury. Thus, I'm eager to drop the challenging gear and then we will likely loose any challenge. This is so frustrating ! It feels like we _have_ to spend additionnal points... to be killed by Terminators Sergeants. Why is that Chaos boon table present ? To lure us into wasting more points ? PS: Aspiring Champions start with Ubergrit for 0 points. PS: AC can therefore have Dual Lightning Claw and a Pistol/Bolter. PS: Talon's AC can roll twice initially on Boon Table. Worth the points ? [Edits] Including some stats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verythrax Draconis Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Ok, our Aspiring Champions are quite (no inv save) good challengers. With a Long War Veterans, Lightning Claws and MoSlaanesh (high odds to inflict 2+ ap3 wounds at I5), they will shred any Loyalist Sergeant (and many Xenos). I've got a problem through. How many will simply refuse our challenges ? Many will prefers loose 2 injuries than giving away 1 roll and 1 injury. Thus, I'm eager to drop the challenging gear and then we will likely loose any challenge. This is so frustrating ! It feels like we _have_ to spend additionnal points... to be killed by Terminators Sergeants. Why is that Chaos boon table present ? To lure us into wasting points ? PS: Aspiring Champions start with Ubergrit for 0 points. PS: AC can therefore have Dual Lightning Claw and a Pistol/Bolter. PS: Talon's AC can roll twice initially on Boon Table. Worth the points ? That's my opinion, seems likely we NEED to invest in our champions, so the compulsory challeng don't become a liability... but it's a double-edged sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 If they refuse, we negate their sarge, and by doing so, we'll most likely always win the fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urauloth Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Many mentionned giving Power Swords to their AC. Yet a single LC doesn't cost more while beeing more effective. Costs him an attack, though - specialist weapon and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted October 5, 2012 Author Share Posted October 5, 2012 Smart idea about the single claw, options are good to have. I agree with swords for slaanesh (sounds like a charity ) and fists or axe for nurgle. The rest is more grey. I don't think my 2x plasma CSM squad 'swith champ will get anything just because it should be away from the main fighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven_Bloodhowl Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Many mentionned giving Power Swords to their AC. Yet a single LC doesn't cost more while beeing more effective. Costs him an attack, though - specialist weapon and all. The table he posted alongside that comment, proved that the LC is more effective than the Power Sword, even with the loss of an attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 As for the chosen, terminators etc I'll be gearing each to be able to take on different challenges. unfortunately the only one who can accept and issue challanges in a chosen and terminator squad is the champion. Oh yeah I know, I mean the champion and lord (or sorceror) will be synergized so that each one will be able to tackle whatever kind of foe they face. Like the champion takes MoS with a pair of LCs and then the Lord takes an initiative AP2 weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agerjag Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 You can of course give a champ a LC and a PF (this is much more reasonable pointswise on terminator sergeants) that way you can still get the extra attack and choose what you need based on the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Drake Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 I'm just running CSM Champs with meltabombs. If I'm forced to issue/accept then fine, you'll get no extra points out of me. Dallas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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