Sorcerers

[Iron Sage]

Well, when I read it, including now when I read it again, I think its pretty obvious that "a model can replace one weapon with one of the following" means just that. One weapon. If you could take more of them it would undoubtly be worded "one or more" etc. As its worded now, there is no plural anyway, so yes, I really, really don`t think a khorn lord can take both the axe and the mace.

[Kol Saresk]

We'll find out when the FAQ hits.

[Iron Sage]

We'll find out when the FAQ hits.

 

We shall, though to be honest, I doubt it`s going to mention this. Maybe I am wrong though!

 

FAQ should and need to have something about plague zombies and daemon princes (daemon of, surely equals mark of I suspect)

[minigun762]

If you're making a terminator sorcerer, what are you doing with him? Deepstriking with other terminators or shoving him in a land raider?

 

I like the idea of Sorcerers but its hard not to take the chaos lord who is passively better and unlocks troop choices.

[Brother Ambroz]

I just really love the idea of a 2+/3++ MoT TDA sorceror. I'm going to deepstrike him with a unit of termies. In bigger games Abby will likely accompany them as well.

[Minsc]

I've had some fun with my Nurgle Sorcerer on Palaquin, using Biomancy and Nurgle-Disciplines.

He's very expensive, but extremely fun and resilient. (Loyalists would probably sacrifice their left nut for a A3,W4 T5 Librarian.)

[Plaguecaster]

I've had some fun with my Nurgle Sorcerer on Palaquin, using Biomancy and Nurgle-Disciplines.

He's very expensive, but extremely fun and resilient. (Loyalists would probably sacrifice their left nut for a A3,W4 T5 Librarian.)

 

I agree Palanquin is a must for my sorcerer (even though still trying to make one for him) as I run him at 250pts with Murder sword and Force axe very expensive (sucks sorcerers can't make Plague Marines Troops) quite a good combo especially with mastery lv3, sigil and spell familiar going crazy with his lovely Nurgle powers so far I always roll a 5 or 6 when I use Gift of Contagion which really :cuss my opponent off when they are losing -1 T and -S on their units (can it be cast more than once per turn???)

 

What weapons and wargear besides Palanquin do you give your Nurgle Sorcerer Minsc.

[minigun762]

What about something simple?

I'm thinking of an undivided terminator sorcerer with axe and biomancy. Mastery 1-2 depending on overall points available.

[the jeske]

one should realy take the lvl 3 upgrade . better chance of getting stuff one wants from biomancy . I am not sure about taking termi armor , the+2/+5 sv is something people are used to deal with [in facts it is rather +2/+3] , but a bike bumps our sorc to t5 , no more fists kills , str 4-6 has harder time hiting us . and with proper power we turn our sorc in to a elder dreadnought.

[Minsc]

What weapons and wargear besides Palanquin do you give your Nurgle Sorcerer Minsc.

 

Blightgrenades, Sigil of Corruption, Masterylevel (3), and if I have the points for it, he also get's a Spell Familiar and Gift of Mutation

He wields a Force Axe because he only has I4, and since he won't get instafisted to death, the +1Str and AP2 is nice.

 

All in all he then has 4 WS5 S5 AP2 attacks, and 4 Wounds at T5, with a 3+/4++. Exepsive? Yes. Worth it? Yes!

[minigun762]

one should realy take the lvl 3 upgrade . better chance of getting stuff one wants from biomancy . I am not sure about taking termi armor , the+2/+5 sv is something people are used to deal with [in facts it is rather +2/+3] , but a bike bumps our sorc to t5 , no more fists kills , str 4-6 has harder time hiting us . and with proper power we turn our sorc in to a elder dreadnought.

 

But is it worth investing that many points in protecting a 2W model from instant death?

 

You can get the terminator sorcerer for right around 100 points depending on mastery level. That makes him cheaper than the other lieutenant type HQs but still better.

 

I could see splurging on him in higher point games or if he's your only HQ but as a secondary HQ, I'm not sure I want to invest 150-200 points in him.

[the jeske]

well I see it this way , if your taking biomancy then your doing hth . Specialy when you dont take marks . a sorc without a mark [be it mos or mon] makes as much sense as an unmarked chaos lord , that tries to be a shoting platform . We dont have divination to buff troops , we cant get gate or avanger , telepathy is bad , same with pyro . biomancy is good for stuff with high T because they becomes awesome tanks [eldar dreadnought in stats] .

 

That makes him cheaper than the other lieutenant type HQs but still better.

there are no Lt lvl characters in this codex. there is the lord , huron , sorc . and there is MC costed stuff the DP , ahriman and tyfus , the chaos codex doesnt have any other HQs. If a sub par HQ is to be taken then it is better to not take one at all . If I were forced to play with a single HQ I would always pick an ax lord or huron over a psyker. buffs and psychic powers are awesome , that is true . but there is too many SW RP and eldar runes to have a warlord with 2 wounds going tank.

[Smurfalypse]

well I see it this way , if your taking biomancy then your doing hth . Specialy when you dont take marks . a sorc without a mark [be it mos or mon] makes as much sense as an unmarked chaos lord , that tries to be a shoting platform . We dont have divination to buff troops , we cant get gate or avanger , telepathy is bad , same with pyro . biomancy is good for stuff with high T because they becomes awesome tanks [eldar dreadnought in stats] .

 

That makes him cheaper than the other lieutenant type HQs but still better.

there are no Lt lvl characters in this codex. there is the lord , huron , sorc . and there is MC costed stuff the DP , ahriman and tyfus , the chaos codex doesnt have any other HQs. If a sub par HQ is to be taken then it is better to not take one at all . If I were forced to play with a single HQ I would always pick an ax lord or huron over a psyker. buffs and psychic powers are awesome , that is true . but there is too many SW RP and eldar runes to have a warlord with 2 wounds going tank.

 

I differ in opinion on the value of Telepathy. There are certainly a few in there that are very handy.

 

Dominate can be handy, though agreed that it is not great.

 

Mental Fortitude is also one of those decent powers. If you are running Cultists you can ensure they will not break for a turn or rally them from a distance and get them back into the fight.

 

Puppet Master is great, you can even target vehicles and have them do whatever it is they do.

 

Terrify has come in handy numerous times. Not the greatest but certainly not worthless.

 

Invisibility is just incredible, one of the single BEST powers in the game. Not much matches up against this power.

 

Hallucination is also a great power. 1-2 auto pins a unit, 3-4 makes them not do anything (ignores fearless), and 5-6 makes all the models in the unit attack their own unit with their best CC weapon.

 

If I am using a Sorcerer this is the table I will be rolling on most games I play. The Daemon Prince however is much better off with the Biomancy table, so much good stuff in there that really increases what he does good and improves some of his weaknesses, on a Sorcerer however a lot of it is wasted (who cares if his initiative+attacks increase, or str+toughness).

[minigun762]

well I see it this way , if your taking biomancy then your doing hth . Specialy when you dont take marks . a sorc without a mark [be it mos or mon] makes as much sense as an unmarked chaos lord , that tries to be a shoting platform . We dont have divination to buff troops , we cant get gate or avanger , telepathy is bad , same with pyro . biomancy is good for stuff with high T because they becomes awesome tanks [eldar dreadnought in stats] .

 

That makes him cheaper than the other lieutenant type HQs but still better.

there are no Lt lvl characters in this codex. there is the lord , huron , sorc . and there is MC costed stuff the DP , ahriman and tyfus , the chaos codex doesnt have any other HQs. If a sub par HQ is to be taken then it is better to not take one at all . If I were forced to play with a single HQ I would always pick an ax lord or huron over a psyker. buffs and psychic powers are awesome , that is true . but there is too many SW RP and eldar runes to have a warlord with 2 wounds going tank.

 

Food for thought to be sure.

 

When I said Lt HQs I was referring to the Warpsmith and Apostle. Now whether or not they are actually worth taking is a whole other subject.

 

My assumption (and I'm sure this could be incorrect) is that the standard 1st choice for HQ units will be some sort of marked lord geared for combat. The mark will depend mostlu on what type of cult marine is desired as a troop but we can assume Nurgle will be very common for Plague Marines followed up by Khorne for the super death axe.

 

Once this first HQ position was filled, my assumption is that people would want to minimize the amount of points they're spending on an additional HQ and so look for something cheaper. Sounds like your thinking is that you either go big or go home (so to speak) and field two worthwhile HQs or just the required one. Am I correct?

[the jeske]

I think I said this before . under 2k double FoC chaos has 3 problems with HQ . first it can balance a lord/sorc/huron . second playing with just one means the army does lose a lot of its effectivness. To make some examples. Without a sorc we are more or less giving away one sub turn to our opponents[not as harsh as it would be in WFB but still hurts] . no ax lord means inability to do challanges . there is too much EW[GK/SW] stormshield armed HQs to do challanges with asp champions or the sorc and as we are a short range list , sooner or later those counter units will run in to our dudes. no huron on the other hand makes our sloggers a bit too slow . Imo huron for chaos is like combat tactics for loyalists playing without them is way much worse. But what does that mean . Well it means that we have to either maxmize taking 2 HQs or one in two like tyfus/ahriman. one is a lord/sorc the other a sorc/huron fusion. in this set ups the Sorc is , sadly , the most random one[so making him less random makes him better] . So for a lot of people he will get cut first . Now for those that want to use a sorc there is two ways to go , either take the two-in-one dudes or try to make the sorc as hard as possible . t6 on a bike wit biomnacy or t5 on a bike with biomancy [safer option] , is probaly the best we can do . if a sorc is suppose to be the only HQ in an army. . I dont see much sense in runing mastery lvl 2 sorc . If someone ones a cheap HQ then he can just buy a cheap lord or something from the chaos demon codex.

[Kol Saresk]

Huh. I think the thread left it's original purpose. Actually it left it a while back since I asked to see what others "Dream Sorcerers" would be. As in, if you had unlimited points, just how big would you make your sorcerer." But it was cool to actually see everyone's plans for how to build up their actual HQ slot.

[Jonah]

I've played a bunch of games with 6th Ed, the latest ones with the new Chaos codex, and until now I've completely ignored the Psychic stuff.

 

I wanted to put the Brand of Skalathrax into the list and considered putting it on a Sorcerer for some added lulz. But the more I look into it the more exciting it gets.

 

Consider this unit:

 

Chaos Sorcerer

• Terminator Armour
  
• 3 Mastery Levels
  
• Brand of Skalathrax
  

That's 175 points and he doesn't need to take a Mark, so he could get 3 powers from Telepathy. 5 out of 6 of those powers are Blessings or Maledictions, so at the very least he gets to cast one power at the start of his movement turn (more likely 2) and still shoot Skalathrax in his shooting turn. Potentially he can buff/debuff 3 times before he's even moved (Mental Fortitude a friendly unit, then Dominate and Terrify an enemy unit). With the new rules he can even do this to units locked in combat.

 

He's in Terminator armour for added protection (cheap for a Sorcerer) and you can wrap him in cultists to keep him safe. If an enemy gets close just unleash the cultists and let the Sorcerer go somewhere else, even another cultist mob.

 

What's even more exciting is if you give powers to a Daemon Prince. Check out this pricey but savage unit:

 

Daemon Prince of Nurgle

• 3 Mastery Levels
  
• Wings
  
• Power Armour
  

All for 295 points. But what you get is pretty impressive; he can Jink freely because he probably isn't shooting, so he has a 2+ cover save (Nurgle) along with his normal 3+/5++.

 

He has to take a Nurgle power which has a 2/3 chance of being a Malediction, so he can debuff an enemy before he moves (potentially with a 48inch range). Then he's free to pick 2 powers from Biomancy, Pyromancy and Telepathy. Biomancy gives him some great possibilities; Iron Arm would be imba on him and there's a 4/6 chance he'll get blessings/maledictions that he can use even if he Jinks.

 

Pyromancy looks good if you don't expect to Jink too much and still has blessings in there that would benefit him. With wings he has great mobility so the close-range witchfire powers can be used with much greater reliability.

 

And at his most basic he's a CC monster - his attacks are AP2 as standard and he'll usually be hitting before most of the people he challenges. And he can wreck tanks without even thinking about it.

 

What would work well with these Psychic Terrors? I think even standard Cultists could run riot on a battlefield where enemy units are shooting eachother, having their weapons explode and suffering strength and toughness debuffs. What do you guys think? I'm definitely going to try these guys out and see what carnage they can wreck!

[Hatefires]

Correct me if I am wrong, but even though the Nurgle Daemon prince is shrouded he is slow and purposful-so you cannot "run" while swooping. and you would only get the 5+ jink not the 4+ jink, so with shrouded you are only +3 cover, good for High AP weapons still but I have had allot of Tau rail guns pointed at me recently.

[Iron Sage]

Correct me if I am wrong, but even though the Nurgle Daemon prince is shrouded he is slow and purposful-so you cannot "run" while swooping. and you would only get the 5+ jink not the 4+ jink, so with shrouded you are only +3 cover, good for High AP weapons still but I have had allot of Tau rail guns pointed at me recently.

 

Still pretty resilient if he is swooping though.Takes a real effort gunning him down, and Tau rail guns are not common in every list :cuss

 

Hmm, sure Slow and Purposeful dissalows "Diving"? Perhaps it does, but can`t find where that is written in the rule book at the moment.

[minigun762]

I had considered a level 2 Slaanesh sorcerer paired with sonic blaster noise marines.

In a perfect world I'd get the primaris power and symphony of pain. Add some decent shooting with status effects and debuff the target while hitting it with S5 shots.

If I can't get symphony than seizures would be a fair alternative

[Smurfalypse]

I've played a bunch of games with 6th Ed, the latest ones with the new Chaos codex, and until now I've completely ignored the Psychic stuff.

 

I wanted to put the Brand of Skalathrax into the list and considered putting it on a Sorcerer for some added lulz. But the more I look into it the more exciting it gets.

 

Consider this unit:

 

Chaos Sorcerer

• Terminator Armour
  
• 3 Mastery Levels
  
• Brand of Skalathrax
  

That's 175 points and he doesn't need to take a Mark, so he could get 3 powers from Telepathy. 5 out of 6 of those powers are Blessings or Maledictions, so at the very least he gets to cast one power at the start of his movement turn (more likely 2) and still shoot Skalathrax in his shooting turn. Potentially he can buff/debuff 3 times before he's even moved (Mental Fortitude a friendly unit, then Dominate and Terrify an enemy unit). With the new rules he can even do this to units locked in combat.

 

He's in Terminator armour for added protection (cheap for a Sorcerer) and you can wrap him in cultists to keep him safe. If an enemy gets close just unleash the cultists and let the Sorcerer go somewhere else, even another cultist mob.

 

I run my Sorcerer with almost the same setup, only difference is I added Spell Familiar. When you are casting two or three powers a turn, you are going to fail one sooner or later and even if it lets you reroll once per game it is worth it.

 

I use mine in a full 10 man footslogging Terminator squad with two Reaper Autocannons. Works wonders to be honest.

[Jonah]

Correct me if I am wrong, but even though the Nurgle Daemon prince is shrouded he is slow and purposful-so you cannot "run" while swooping. and you would only get the 5+ jink not the 4+ jink, so with shrouded you are only +3 cover, good for High AP weapons still but I have had allot of Tau rail guns pointed at me recently.

 

You are right. My maths are bad! 3+ cover for being out in the open is still pretty sweet though ;)

 

I run my Sorcerer with almost the same setup, only difference is I added Spell Familiar. When you are casting two or three powers a turn, you are going to fail one sooner or later and even if it lets you reroll once per game it is worth it.

 

I use mine in a full 10 man footslogging Terminator squad with two Reaper Autocannons. Works wonders to be honest.

 

Spell Familiar! Good tip. 10 Termies... now that sounds like a plan :D

 

Quick question on Spell Familiar - can you re-roll double 1s? Do you still take a wound?

[Kol Saresk]

The wording is

A model with a spell familiar may re-roll failed psychic tests.

 

I don't know if that's a yes or not.

[Sanctimonius]

I think the re-roll allows you to avoid the wound caused, otherwise you'd run the chance of failing twice, and therefore incur two wounds and kill yourself in one turn...

[Excessus]

A double 1 is not a failed psychic test, the power still works...

 

But 50% of perils gone is still awesome!