Need some advice - Pre-Heresy Dark Angels

[m_r_parker]

Hey guys - need some advice on Pre-Heresy Dark Angel colour schemes, which I'm hoping to bounce some ideas off and get some feedback on.

 

In short, at Games Day 2011 I purchased a number of Mark II - V sets of power armour to do an Imperial Fists force, with a couple of the new (then) Deimos pattern Rhinos. These have sat mostly assembled and unpainted until now, and with the new Forgworld Horus Heresy series, it seems like a prudent time to brings these models out of hibernation and get them painted as Dark Angels. So now I have a couple of packs of Catephracti Terminators and a Deimos pattern Predator Executioner (the one with the cool plasma turret - because the Emperor knows we love our plasma weapons ;) ) getting ready for construction.

 

I'm guessing it's going to be a fair few books before Forgeworld get to the Dark Angels (at least two books for Istvaan V, and presumably the battles for Calth and Prospero before we get our turn, so a couple of years maybe?), so i'm not 100% sure how we're going to have our colour schemes represented. I know from the RT era artwork and background fluff that originally the Dark Angels had black armour, with a red winged sword iconography - but do we have anything else that suggests how the Dark Angels looked any different from the other Legions who had black armour? (I.e. Raven Guard, and Iron Hands).

 

In particular for the Catephracti Terminators, which have a very prominent armour trim around the chest and legs, what is going to be most fitting for these? I like the idea of using Red as a contrast colour to the black, but those trims I always see in mettalic hues and I'm not sure if a Red (metallic or non-metallic) is going to really pull this off.

 

Does anyone has any ideas, or any other pieces of long-forgotten artwork that they bring forward to give me some inspiration? Hopefully I'll be able to post some pics of various bits of progress as I get going through this, as the Forgeworld treatment of Warhammer 30k is exactly the type of stimulus I was looking for to reinvigorate the hobby for me.

 

Cheers!

[Captain Semper]

well, theIndex Astartes article is depicting the pre-heresy DAs as all black with the white badge of the Winged Sword.

 

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/2/20/PreheresyDarkAngel.jpg

 

Obviously there will be tons of markings when FW comes around to examine the Heresy-era DAs in detail but who can wait? ;)

 

Also red and black is a great combo and it certainly brings back memories but the most recent "official" depiction is the one above - so it's up to you...

[Onisuzume]

I disagree with that picture, actually.

 

I vastly prefer this over the one from Index Astartes.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y185/Onisuzume/Dark%20Angels/RTDA2.jpg

[Captain Semper]

There is no question of agreeing or disagreeing. The all-black panoply is the most recent depiction of pre-Heresy DAs by GW. You can ignore it but it does not change the fact that's there...

 

Personally I agree with you on the grounds of personal preference. My Consecrators have this exact paint scheme (even the red studs on the shoulder pad) so they can pass off as Heresy-era DAs - especially as I have yet to put the Chapter icon on! The above picture also shows the yellow eyelenses and it looks (to me at least) as a blue-black version of black. Which makes me very happy! :) But its also very old...

 

BL has also some images of pre-Heresy DAs on the cover of the books but are not that clear nor there is an explanation given for the variuos markings. For example the white shoulder pads. What do they stand for?

 

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/a/a7/Descent_of_angels_clean.jpg

 

Or any of the subtle symbols in this picture (where the armour does not even look black to me):

 

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/2/29/Fallen_angels_clean.jpg

 

Anyway, when FW comes around to covering the DAs I'm sure that markings and paint shemes will be revisited and codified and also allow for personal creativity. Probelm is, when? :)

[Ordo Machinum]

And just to add another promethium tank to the fire, let's not forget the Consecrators as shown in the most recent C:DA. They are said to wear the preheresy colors of the DA.

Maybe there was variation among the chapters in the DA Legion much like company markings are used within a chapter.

In one of the HH books, there is a description of a DA with a green pauldron for Caliban-spawned DA that the Lion permitted to be used while the Terran-spawned DA did not use.

[EPK]

I like to reference this thread when people bring up said topic. He marked Caliban vs. Terran DA Marines with a subtle difference (aside from robes for Caliban Marines) - painting one shoulder with a green pad inlay with checkered pattern. Here is a nice shot showing that.

 

Obviously this guy did a whole lot of modeling, basing them off of some artwork. I hope that FW eventually does some sort of upgrade pack to incorporate some other knightly looking variations into the marks - like what we see in the images Semper posted above.

 

You may still want to incorporate some robed marines from GW models - you can always substitute older marks of helmets, pads, powerpacks to give them illusion of Crusade/Heresy era.

 

For your Cataphractii Terminators, I think I would go with metallic trim as you noted. I can't recall any DA artwork featuring Cataphractii armor though.

[Harleqvin]

IA books/articles that showed black armor with white sword and wings on the left pad.

RT era which was black with Studded pad having red studs for left and then a smaller red sword wings on right. If you don't use studded pad then a red sword wings on left pad.

Descent of Angels with black armor with white left pads having black sword wings

Fallen Angels with Black/Metal armor checkered right pad and left white pad with red sword wings

 

In The Lion there was a Librarian with black armor and blue tabard/surplice if I remember right.

 

In the BL books at a certain point they state Lion made the Calibanite DA to have a green left pad with Sword wings (not sure if color was stated for it) and then heraldry on the right.

 

It all depends on what you want to go with.

 

You can see what I did with mine here.

 

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/562871_4001336683863_120962991_n.jpg

 

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/555159_4001341563985_744960520_n.jpg

 

I am also kind of waiting to see what FW does for army markings but I don't think it will change what I am doing to much. Which is a quasi current BL fluff and RT style. lqtm

even my Contemptor is shown as having Veteran Captain Markings.

 

I am also going to go more of the route with Tabards/surplices instead of robes (it's more Knightly and it's stated in the current Horus Heresy stories with DA in them.) With most Characters having Purple Lenses and the bulk if not all of the normal Marines with Green. Maybe having Vet squad non Character Marines with Yellow lenses.

[JeffJedi]

If I get any Forge World Horus Heresy models they will be painted green instead of black. Maybe representing the very first day the armor was changed to green.

 

There's too much black already:

Abbadon's Company of the Son's of Horus

Word bearers were black before they were red weren't they?

Ravenguard

Iron Hands

etc.

[Artemid]

I believe Word Bearers were plain steel/silver before they adopted their red panoply (so their current trim color was their whole armor), yes?

[vette114]

Harleqvin, I really like that mini, I have been looking at doing a heresy era DA army to get back into the hobby. Right now I'm kind of waiting to see what the new codex has for units and do the preheresy army paint job. I have been thinking I'm going to do army with a little sheen/gloss on it instead of the matte. I have always liked the black and red combo on anything (first saw that combo on a car).

 

I also liked the pre heresy army that was floating around youtube recently that is a excellent looking force.

 

Again great mini!

 

MC

[Captain Semper]

It all depends on what you want to go with.

 

You can see what I did with mine here.

 

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/562871_4001336683863_120962991_n.jpg

 

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/555159_4001341563985_744960520_n.jpg

 

:yes:

 

Whoaa... This is an excemment mini there Harleqvin!!! It's Great Crusade all over again!!!! Congrats man - is there an army to go with him?

 

 

I am also kind of waiting to see what FW does for army markings but I don't think it will change what I am doing to much. Which is a quasi current BL fluff and RT style. lqtm

even my Contemptor is shown as having Veteran Captain Markings.

 

I am also going to go more of the route with Tabards/surplices instead of robes (it's more Knightly and it's stated in the current Horus Heresy stories with DA in them.) With most Characters having Purple Lenses and the bulk if not all of the normal Marines with Green. Maybe having Vet squad non Character Marines with Yellow lenses.

 

Sounds like plan... Hold that thought. ;)

 

 

If I get any Forge World Horus Heresy models they will be painted green instead of black. Maybe representing the very first day the armor was changed to green.

 

There's too much black already:

Abbadon's Company of the Son's of Horus

Word bearers were black before they were red weren't they?

Ravenguard

Iron Hands

etc.

 

Word Bearers were grey but I see where you're coming from on this. Green heresy era marines can be quite fun - if a bit unorthodox... a glimpse of the future maybe? ;) Still, good to see you're seriously considering a Heresy army!

[elmo]

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/a/a7/Descent_of_angels_clean.jpg

 

This is going to be my Nov PtR vow :lol:

[Brother Amarel]

Traditionally it's all black with red chapter symbol (I still have some of the original transfers that were released with the symbol in red). I don't get why the symbol has been ret-conned to white or whether its a purposeful or 'accidental' change (as the green main colour was).

[Harleqvin]

@Captain Semper. I am working on them still. lqtm. I have been busy painting Cygnar still for a friend. He has a poopload of models and I had some issues before Summer that happened that also made it harder to get work done,which was before my grandpa dieing this summer. A lot happened this year to me..... So I am still doing that stuff when it should have been done by now. So it works out for me, a little, to see a bit of what is shown in the Betrayal book. Slowly putting things together and converting other things. So they will look more Pre/Heresy. I have a lot of work to do......... :D Still working on my Chaplain/"Brother Redemptor" Dread. Still need to remove part of the canopy on a relic contemptor torso so the Necro Sphynx skull will fit properly. Also still waiting to see more on my thought of shaving off all the big TDA honor badges on the shoulder pads off as I am going to make them more outgoing shoulders pads... but with them making the Cataphractii TDA, I may just sell a few of what I have to save me some time with shaving those skulls off. Who knows.

 

@Vette114. Thanks. I have also always liked the black with red. I may try to do some more glossiness on some models to see if I like more of a sheen or if I want to stay with the normal satin/flat and then have some spots glossier to stand out. Also I think I have seen that video your talking about. I like those, too. The one guy above posted a link of someones work that is also very nice and heavily converted. i like those a bit and liked how he made some shorter to be the knights that were too old, I may do that myself to a few somehow. I am going to make some of them have the green pad eventually when I get back to painting my stuff.

 

@Brother Amarel. I had some old ones that were white with the circle around them. Sold them on eBay as I don't really like decals but that stems from trying them way back in like '99 when I first started and it didn't work out well but there are lots of ways to make them look a lot nicer now than compared to then. lqtm. I don't know how old they are but I am thinking it was a bit into or right before 2nd ed. So I think it was somewhere around then they started the white on the sword and wings. Still a long time ago. I loved the rumor that it was a mistake and a salamanders marine was shown as DA and they went from there but who knows the real story of them changing it to Green armor outright....

 

@JeffJedi. There is a sect of people that believe it's just reeeeeeeeeally dark green almost black for the original armor. lqtm. So go for it. It's really all down to preference.

 

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/a/a7/Descent_of_angels_clean.jpg

I think the art for Descent of Angels was supposed to be The Order before the Lion was found by the Emperor. As they did have PA then but it was obviously smaller than SM PA. lqtm but I don't know for sure.

 

I am thinking the DA will be in the 3rd book for HH by FW. Along with Night Lords. but who knows. With Them being a bit more popular now maybe we will be in the next book but I think that will be be Salamanders, RavenGuard and what not for the first attack against Horus where they were betrayed by the Iron Warriors and the other ones.

[Harleqvin]

Something new possibly. On BoLS they have an article discussing the new HH Betrayal book. Looks like for the Death Guard before they were that they were the dusk raiders and the shoulder pads had chapter(legion) icons on the right shoulder and then squad marks on the leftt. Don't know if that's how it was for all legions before finding their Primarch nor if that's how they were even after finding Primarch.

 

Although I now think the same place where it said the calibanite DA do the green on the one pad also said it was switched for them so the Terran DA might have had legion mark on right and squad on the left.... If that's the case I may need to alter some things for my DA.....

 

Food for thought I suppose. Will be waiting for more definitive answer myself. Really wanting to get the HH: Betrayal now.