new codex

Warmammer · October 6, 2012

so what do people think of the new codex

the people that have them

Iron Sage · October 6, 2012

I like it.

It has way more diversity than the Thorpe dex (to be expected). More units are viable and there appears to be many different builds available. It`s not perfect, and some units are underwhelming, but all in all, it looks like a good codex with a lot of options (there is power in having options). It`s very much less streamlined and boring. I had to think when I was trying to create a list. I like that...

It`s also a rather pretty book.

notsoevil · October 6, 2012

Well, it's definitely a great looking book.

I have been building a Nurgle CSM army for a bit and never got to play in 5th edition, but I'm pretty darn excited about all the options in this book.

Verythrax Draconis · October 6, 2012

I never played Chaos, but from my knowledge of the army fluffwise and for playing against (and platonic feelings on starting a CSM army in 4th and 5th eds, that never came to frutition). It's nice!

It's daunting for a non-chaos player, since chaos is all about hitting hard with expensive units, so the army is less forgiving, but the number of feasible combinations that can be brought to the table with real chances of working seems amazing - at least after the one-trick pony that was the 4th ed dex.

I'm trying to refrain myself from collecting everything CSM and focus on solely my build, for the love of my wallet!

Smurfalypse · October 6, 2012

I like the feel of the entire thing, it has a lot of options, and there are multiple builds available it looks like so far.

Emperors Immortals · October 6, 2012

I have to agree - AMAZING new lists possible, from true elite raiding parties to uprisings of underhive scum or Armegeddon I style mutant waves and all backed up by DarkMech engines its full of win.

Its also a gorgeous looking book and well worth the nearly AU$100 it cost (despite my protestations) which was a clever move by GW to keep a revenue coming in in this day of D/L pirates. (I actually bought one based on the quality of leaked images instead of just running with a scan).

Totally going to get 5 years of play from it :D - thankyou GW.

Thornoo1 · October 6, 2012

So straight off the bat; This Is A Great Codex!

I'm not going to bother posting over at dakka or warseer but I've just read 40+ pages of people saying the ball was dropped and that the sky is falling. I call this BS.

What other codex can potentially infiltrate 60 space marines, who else can infiltrate terminators in land raiders (DSing BA land raiders is not as good)?

Who else can put ignore cover 3 shot boltguns into range via infiltrate?

I do not buy the argument "but you have to take a special character to unlock this" Heads up, you have to take one of those to pretty much unlock any kind of army build in other codices.

So some things became units you may not take due to cost considerations or that they are not the most efficient choice available, guess what not a single one of the 14 codices is built like that.

I also don't buy the argument that"codex y does it better" if this was the case then I would never play my Tau army again (I tried doing a BA Dreadnought list to represent crisis suits, guess what, it plays like a BA dreadnought list not a tau list).

This codex allows more variation than any one MEQ book out there bar none! We have the tactical marines that every SM has always wanted. We can horde as well if not better than any other codex, played much 6th ed lately? It's the new meta. Nobody can put down 120 scoring marines, nobody.

The chaos lords are fantastic, nobody's generic hq choice comes anywhere near what these guys can do for the same cost. We now have 6 different psychic choices to pick from, nobody's codex has this.

There are little gems all the way through this codex. This codex is by far the most shooty MEQ codex in the game now. There are units within Elite and Heavy that can field any special weapon you want in bulk, then they can infiltrate. The elite choices that can be unlocked into troops have fantastic basic weaponry in the form of AP3 bolts or Salvo2/3 ignore cover. Our shooty tanks became cheaper than anyone-else.

So to recap: This Is A Great Codex!

It will hold up for ages and allow many different builds. Well done GW.

hornywingythingy · October 6, 2012

Overall its a wonderful dex, embossed cover, really high quality, I was really chuffed when I picked up my copy yesterday, even though, like most other people I had already pored over the pdf.

There are some duff units and some gems too to be fair, posessed and warp talons both missing grenades seems barmy to me, I guess its supposed to be a flavour thing, but frankly makes them a bit of a liability. The nerf of the attacks on the dreadnought/hellbrute makes no sense to me, 2 attacks is not enough. Then the flip side, spawn look amazingly attractive now as units! I never thought I'd say that! We have four very good options in fast attack (drake, raptors, bikes and spawn) heavy support is chockablock with good choices too.

Overall I'm very very happy with the dex, we have a few mandrake style units in our list now, but most of the units should be effective now.

Plus cultists! Yeaaaaah! (sorry, Al player, I have missed my cultists)

Dallas Drake · October 6, 2012

It's an update of the Gavdex rather than a new attempt at Chaos. Which is a real shame, because it's almost as if PK was on the right lines but either 1) was rushed, 2) got reigned in, 3) couldn't be arsed.

Angry with the lack of icons to assist Deep Striking

Angry with the Terminators set-up

Angry with the lack of Daemon Weapons

Angry with DPs losing EW & having to be marked (anyone else play Word Bearers :cuss!?)

Angry with Possessed not getting assault grenades but I actually think these are an alright unit with Mok or MoT anyway.

Otherwise it's an alright book & way more colourful than the last one; though I must admit that on one hand it's just the usual GW, all the bad units are better now so they can sell & IMHO some of the points are way off, Defilers & Warp Talons are just silly expensive.

Also, I'm not sure what the hard on with AV12 is? Oh & the devs seem to think that a 5++ is the sh1t & will make everything ok, when really it's not.

Spawn are useful, so that should clear those million boxes from their warehouse(s).

I like Cultists, CSMs, Preds are cheaper. Chosen are alright, can get expensive though. Helldrake seems like a gimmick as do, Forgefiends & Maulerfiends, meh. Forgefiends are ok for dakka I guess but hell AV12 again.

I think on the whole people will be disappointed because while its alright this book is decidedly lack luster.

Dallas

Dallas Drake · October 6, 2012

So straight off the bat; This Is A Great Codex!

Disagree, the sky isn't falling but... let me play devils advocate ;)

What other codex can potentially infiltrate 60 space marines, who else can infiltrate terminators in land raiders (DSing BA land raiders is not as good)?

Who else can put ignore cover 3 shot boltguns into range via infiltrate?

I do not buy the argument "but you have to take a special character to unlock this" Heads up, you have to take one of those to pretty much unlock any kind of army build in other codices.

My BA army takes a Librarian and a Reclusiarch & it does just fine. The thing is now you will see every army with Huron or Ahriman - sigh. Plus Land Raiders are still crap just now they cost more. Terminators? What are they thinking, combi weapon OR fist!? Why not both!?

This codex allows more variation than any one MEQ book out there bar none! We have the tactical marines that every SM has always wanted.

Basic CSMs are very customizable yes. There will be a few decent ways to run them & that's it, plus to make them decent they get to 5th ed. prices. As for our CSMs being better that SMs they have ATSKNF, which is just superb. I like CSMs in the new book though so I won't rant on them too hard. They're not 'better' than a points for points marine or Grey Hunter though.

We can horde as well if not better than any other codex, played much 6th ed lately? It's the new meta. Nobody can put down 120 scoring marines, nobody.

Well, Orks, IG & Nids can easily out horde us if that's the game, but so what? SW can put down that many 3+ saves if they want, but then it's not really a good army though is it? Plus to make CSMs worth taking they soon get up to the 200+ points mark.

The chaos lords are fantastic, nobody's generic hq choice comes anywhere near what these guys can do for the same cost. We now have 6 different psychic choices to pick from, nobody's codex has this.

Won't argue with the Lords being great. Though with the lack of Daemon Weapon/Artifact options there are probably only 2 no brainer builds. I guess GW need to shift those Termie Lord boxes quick.

This codex is by far the most shooty MEQ codex in the game now.

Is it? I thought the focus was on HtH? What units make this 'by far the most shooty MEQ codex in the game now'? Sure, it's got some decent shooty options with cheaper Preds, Oblits, Noise Marines etc but a decent SW, Tau or IG army would blow it off the table IMO.

There are units within Elite and Heavy that can field any special weapon you want in bulk, then they can infiltrate.

Huron/Ahriman again. The new Oblits lash then?

The elite choices that can be unlocked into troops have fantastic basic weaponry in the form of AP3 bolts or Salvo2/3 ignore cover. Our shooty tanks became cheaper than anyone-else.

Really? Berzerkers have 1 base attack (:lol:!?) & have to pay for their axes!? Are you serious. PMs are no longer FNP (fair enough since T5 & FNP was a bit OTT), 10 TS in a Rhino is around 300 points & they can't overwatch. Noise Marines are better but 10 Noise Marines with 9 SBs & 1 BM in a Rhino is over 265 points. Better but meh... Preds got a slight price drop so they're doing good. Defiler got shafted though (oh wait, we all have those models don't we, well that makes sense, I best run out & buy 3 Forgefiends right this minute then).

So to recap: This Is A Great Codex!

It will hold up for ages and allow many different builds. Well done GW.

No, I'd say a bit of a sloppy job GW. It's a book which is clearly designed to do one thing - get our ££$$. The reason why people are angry is because the lack of effort that has gone into this codex is overwhelming! Where are our marks for deep striking? Why are there only 2 Daemon Weapons (1 if you dare to not go Khorne)!? I rate it 5/10, I'm not claiming the world is going to end because it's quite useable but there are plenty of ways this codex could've been done a hundred times better without making it OP like GK.

I'm just going to run what I think is cool. Yes I'll take Possessed, Spawn, Cultists & maybe even a Land Raider. I don't care that it's not a golly! codex, I play to have fun & for the fluff, if I lose so what? So long as I enjoy the game & the models I've painted up then I'm happy ^_^

Dallas

Kol Saresk · October 6, 2012

It's an update of the Gavdex rather than a new attempt at Chaos. Which is a real shame, because it's almost as if PK was on the right lines but either 1) was rushed, 2) got reigned in, 3) couldn't be arsed.

Angry with the lack of icons to assist Deep Striking

Angry with the Terminators set-up

Angry with the lack of Daemon Weapons

Angry with DPs losing EW & having to be marked (anyone else play Word Bearers :cuss!?)

Angry with Possessed not getting assault grenades but I actually think these are an alright unit with Mok or MoT anyway.

Every single unit except Cultists, HQ, Muties, Oblits, Warp Talons and vehicles have Icons. Cult Troops of all things can take Icons now. The only unit I disagree with not having an Icon are the Cultists and the Basic Lords/Sorcerers.

Also, DPs aren't Marked. They are upgraded to a specific "Daemon of this God" which gives them "Hatred(That God)". It's not the same as a Mark.

And actually, people are angry because we didn't get some über-powered Codex that would allow us to just wipe the field with any army we came across.

Dallas Drake · October 6, 2012

Every single unit except Cultists, HQ, Muties, Oblits, Warp Talons and vehicles have Icons. Cult Troops of all things can take Icons now. The only unit I disagree with not having an Icon are the Cultists and the Basic Lords/Sorcerers.

Yes, I see that. But why do they not aid Deep Strike anymore? That was one of the coolest, fun things in the Gavdex & now it's gone :'(

Also, DPs aren't Marked. They are upgraded to a specific "Daemon of this God" which gives them "Hatred(That God)". It's not the same as a Mark.

You know what I mean though, my point is why do you HAVE to upgrade? Why can't you just stay undivided? Do Word Bearers not have DPs?

And actually, people are angry because we didn't get some über-powered Codex that would allow us to just wipe the field with any army we came across.

Yes, you will get them. I'm not one of those people. I don't want cheese. I only have a few gripes but the biggest is I wanted to see more than a few DWs though.

Dallas

Pavement Artist · October 6, 2012

@Dallas Drake: not sure what codex you have but plague marines have feel no pain still.

Bezerkers still have the extra attack, its just there in the form of rage and counter attack. Granted having it when you're charged isnt a guarantee but its still really good.

Dallas Drake · October 6, 2012

@Dallas Drake: not sure what codex you have but plague marines have feel no pain still.

I have the same codex as you. But, totally missed that. No interest in taking them anyway tbh.

Dallas

Pavement Artist · October 6, 2012

Well its just one of your complaints were about the marked troops who are still as good.

greatcrusade08 · October 6, 2012

i dont get this, read through what appears to be alot of whine that makes no sense.

unless you look at it from the perspective of an uber power gamer who wanted a chaos dex that will wreck face.. sorry to say guys this is one of the most balanced dexes ive seen (ok so im going off of the million threads, i dont actually have mine yet).

id put it on par with C:SM, maybe leaning towards C:BA, but it isnt going to be the new SW or GK dex.

careful building, alot of platesting and tweeking will see you do well, but it isnt a steam roller.. people need to chill and enjoy the new dex

Dallas Drake · October 6, 2012

i dont get this, read through what appears to be alot of whine that makes no sense.

unless you look at it from the perspective of an uber power gamer who wanted a chaos dex that will wreck face.. sorry to say guys this is one of the most balanced dexes ive seen (ok so im going off of the million threads, i dont actually have mine yet).

id put it on par with C:SM, maybe leaning towards C:BA, but it isnt going to be the new SW or GK dex.

careful building, alot of platesting and tweeking will see you do well, but it isnt a steam roller.. people need to chill and enjoy the new dex

Well how's this? I want a Daemon Prince, because I have the model, ok. I upgrade him to a Daemon of Khorne because that's what he is, he's the Forgeworld DP model (& because I have to upgrade him to something). Now, it says I can take items from Rewards and/or Artifacts, great lets go have a look... turn to page 67...

1) 5++ save. Got that already as a Daemon.

2) Combat Familiar. See no use for this.

3) Gift of Mutation. Ok, but worth its cost?

4) Ichor Blood. Nope.

5) Spell Familiar. Khorne so lol.

So, all of those are pretty much useless. Some spare points could go on GoM but not really that good unless I get lucky & roll 24.

Let's turn to page 69 & have a look at the Artifacts, bound to be something I can use there!

1) Axe of Blind Fury. Can't take it because like someone pointed out above, I do not have MoK I'm just a Daemon of Khorne. Hahaha! Really GW!?

2) Black Mace. The fist piece of kit that is useable though it's points cost is insane on an already expensive model.

3) Burning Brand. Not really what I want on my DP.

4) Dimensional key. Lol

5) Murder Sword. Hmm, not really sure if this could be used, probably not worth it on a DP.

6) Scrolls of Magnus (Well, I'm Khorne so...)

So, while I agree the codex is alright, I can not agree that it's 'golly amazing so well written' like some people are claiming. It's just not.

Dallas

PS. As it is I'm going with;

DP of Khorne w/wings & power armour (a Cultist tad over 216 points).

Killax · October 6, 2012

I also like this codex a lot. I even would take it so far it's at least as good as Codex SW, just a notch lower than Codex GK.

Now with the inclusion of allies you can always make certain parts better and SW and GK have made great use of Codex IG to even further boost their strenght.

Codex CSM has the best looks, now for me this is not that important, but just a cool thing to have.

The lore in the army is okay, much is from a loyalist point of perspective, now this is the new trend but am not that happy about it. I can understand it also but generally still leaves questions why the Chaos Space Marines chose this path. Not all that unimportant I think since there is a lot of talk about Heresy and this even reflects in the options for army building.

Now since ultimatly this discussion will always lead to "tournament worthy" discussions I'll just cut my thoughts up in the several options we have to build up our army:

HQ:

- Named characters: All look very nice, perhaps Fabius is the only exeption. I personally like the fact they have dropped in costs. The only thing they do lack is Eternal Warrior on some characters you would really think would have it. Then again, it's still special to have it only giving it to the most insanely badass characters.

- Chaos Lord: Dirt cheap and a bucketload of options, great design here. Should have veterans of the long war as standard to me, but then again it's nice to see that they leave the option for us to make a difference between legion specific lords and renegade lords.

- Chaos Sorcerer: Nice design, the only thing that is lacking are the Marked spells, I honestly don't like most of them because they feel rather lacking. Now I am a big World Eater fan/player so I give 0 hats about that but I can understand the sadness because the previous codex had some great powers (lash).

- Daemon Prince: Got a bit expensive but in all fairness still a great option. Some don't like the fact he does not influence the elite marked cults. I think this is only a good thing since in the previous codex there was no reason to go for a lord. The other thing is that Daemon Princes should (fluffwise) not be at every CSM battle. The double prince was a sick joke in the previous codex and now finally GW decided that was a bit wierd.

- Warpsmith/Dark Apostle: New units always cool, because of my preference to a Lord/Daemon Prince I think they are cool for friendly games but don't see me using them a lot. The Dark Apostle can lead a unit of cultists nicely but a normal Lord can do this also and simply hack more away. The lack of Terminator Options again makes me prefer the Lord/Daemon Prince.

Troops:

- Chaos Space Marines: Perfect. Truckload of options, can do everything (a CSM trend)

- Cultist: Perfect. I also feel they are the ones who brought us in top tier again also because they would normally be only in our army when we would take IG allies, they die in a dozen but are so cheap our Elites and Heavies are able to be fielded to the max. I allready like the idea of my 9 Obliterators with Mark of Nurgle. Seems competative to me enough -_-

Elites:

- Chosen: Great for the fans, again very flexible and loads op options. Feel really good, then again also expensive quickly and die almost as quickly as say Sternguards/regular Marines. For tournament purposes I would not field a load of them. If we would have a drop pod option, they would have been bonkers, but we don't have that.

- Possessed: Big Crap. If you are willing to spend points on them you are really cutting your own wrists. Chaos Space Marines need support in all fronts. Our standard CSM is better in close combat than in ranged combat but these things arn't particually good in either of them.

- Chaos Terminators: Great unit, don't expect them to be as good as Hammernators. They are again the flexible paw of CSM, dealy with combi-melta's/plasma's some powerweapons and a fist. Imho best used deepstriking 3-4 hunting a Tank and killing a unit after that. Remember our Lords are there to handle terminators, hammernators are best shot at or tarpitted with a FACK HUGE mob of cultists and/or a Dark Apostle behind them.

- Helbrute: Okay, not that good for support but great in the Chaoszilla/Dino-bots list. If you want to make it mechy they are nice options and payable to boot.

- Mutilator: Little Crap. They are good in CC but since all our units are quite good in CC they feel a bit expensive for just a little bit of support.

- Khorne Berzerkers: Nice CC unit, feel a bit expensive. As mentioned before I am a huge World Eater fan but if I have to be honest I can't see me field more than 1 unit of these guys. The main problem is again our lack of Drop Pods in the army. They feel a bit like BA's Death Compagny but they have their nice Drop Pod option.

- Thousand Sons: Nice BC unit, again as the Berzekers, they feel really expensive. Now I do think they are worth it but again won't use more than 1 or 2 units of these guys.

- Plague Marines: Nice to hold that objective, as with the Noise marines they actually feel worth the points. Also are really expensive and thus fielding more than 1 or 2 units is not the best advice.

- Noise Marines: Great allround. I think Slaanesh is the god with the least followers game wise but these actually are worth the points everytime. Have fun you Slaaneshi fiends!

Dedicated Transport:

- Rhino: ..... Uhm yeah, thanks GW, no plans for a Drop Pod ever for us huh? A-holes.

Fast Attack:

- Chaos Bikers: Cool and good. Don't load up on them to much, they are also nice hunters. In other words, they are costed good but are less cheesable in use.

- Chaos Spawn: Useless Beyond Reason

- Chaos Rapors: Better than Bikers imho, camp behind scenery, pop out when needed. Deepstriked for awesome tank hunting options. Do not forget our champ there has the options for Ranged Weaponry allowing you to sneak in another Combi-Melta. Subway Melt Hmmmmmm

- Warp Talons: The only unit who is unable to shoot while still worth the points and effort imho. They will go down by the bushes vs GK but maul any other power armoured unit. Great for counter assault orientated armies., great for a small counter assault unit overall.

- Heldrake: Overcosted but usefull. Great for flyer hunting. Generally I think a Daemon Prince is the better option compared to the Drake, the costs are also roughly the same. Rumour where much better than it's actual use.

Heavy Support:

- Havocs: Fantastic, skyfire option is great keep it cheap and mark it as you should (if at all) MoN.

- Obliterator: Still my favourite Chaos Unit, I just can't contain it's Dakka. Get expensive but feel worth it overall. MoN if you want a mark.

- Defiler: FACK HUGE but good, only ingame problem it has is that it's FACK HUGE.

- Forgefiend: Seems really good allround. Great in mech Chaoszilla/Dino-riders.

- Maulerfiend: GW just likes to put a CC only unit in every slot. I feel this thing is also useless.

- Chaos Land Raider: Thake it if you must get that CC unit from point A to B. Gut feeling says it's best used with Berzerkers since you get the bucketload attacks and are able to pretty much whipe anything away. To bad it's the only Raider Option we have. One would have tought the Chreative Chaos Chechmarines would have come up with some alterations.

- Chaos Vindicator/Predator: Good

In summery I feel our army is nice and strong in the close ranged department, not much changed. Much like SW. Which would make it competative based on similarities.

I am less of a fan of all the random tables across the dex and the fact the cult elites are so expensive for no obvious reason.

Cheers,

Killax · October 6, 2012