new codex

[Lord Ragnarok]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EC8Jdlj4VJk

-_- Killax may be destined for spawndom. :P

 

I think we all should all relax on the reviews and filter this stuff on the battlefield.

[plasmaspam]

Overall - sadly disappointed, specifically from a Night Lords point of view.

 

Up front let me say I think the book is a high-quality product, and I feel caters well for the 4 main powers, and Black Legion/Word Bearers. Doing the sums in my head, i'm also confident the costings are fair compared with other recent codicii.

 

But as I said I like Night Lords, specifically of the ADB Soul Hunter variety (already have 2500 points worth), and don't see anything in the new book that enables you to distinguish them from a "vanilla" Black Legion build. I acknowledge there is the Master of Deception warlord trait, but that's a 1-in-6 chance each time around. Would have liked it if Warlord Traits could just be picked and paid for, rather than left up to the dice.

 

Hypothetically, how would people feel if an opponent offered to pay lets say 50points to pick a trait, rather than trusting to chance? Suppose i'm really just annoyed that Chosen have lost "Infiltrate", as previously I felt that this (+ some Raptors and DS-ing Atramentar) was the only real avenue to representing NL strategy, and now even that is taken away!

 

Even as I write this, I am getting more annoyed and disappointed, as I feel Night Lords (and suppose you could argue Alpha Legion and Iron Warriors) have really been made second-class in this book.

 

Like I say, I think the book is a success from the PoV of the 4 main powers. Would be interested to know what other NL/AL/IW players think this book does for them, and if i'm just missing something in my study of the book.

 

cheers, P.

[Vesper]

Overall - sadly disappointed, specifically from a Night Lords point of view.

 

Up front let me say I think the book is a high-quality product, and I feel caters well for the 4 main powers, and Black Legion/Word Bearers. Doing the sums in my head, i'm also confident the costings are fair compared with other recent codicii.

 

But as I said I like Night Lords, specifically of the ADB Soul Hunter variety (already have 2500 points worth), and don't see anything in the new book that enables you to distinguish them from a "vanilla" Black Legion build. I acknowledge there is the Master of Deception warlord trait, but that's a 1-in-6 chance each time around. Would have liked it if Warlord Traits could just be picked and paid for, rather than left up to the dice.

 

Hypothetically, how would people feel if an opponent offered to pay lets say 50points to pick a trait, rather than trusting to chance? Suppose i'm really just annoyed that Chosen have lost "Infiltrate", as previously I felt that this (+ some Raptors and DS-ing Atramentar) was the only real avenue to representing NL strategy, and now even that is taken away!

 

Even as I write this, I am getting more annoyed and disappointed, as I feel Night Lords (and suppose you could argue Alpha Legion and Iron Warriors) have really been made second-class in this book.

 

Like I say, I think the book is a success from the PoV of the 4 main powers. Would be interested to know what other NL/AL/IW players think this book does for them, and if i'm just missing something in my study of the book.

 

cheers, P.

 

Huron is here to give you that Master of Deception, you know.

Then, the legions weren't even existing in the last codex. If you want to see them getting some love, 3.5.

[plasmaspam]

Overall - sadly disappointed, specifically from a Night Lords point of view.

 

Up front let me say I think the book is a high-quality product, and I feel caters well for the 4 main powers, and Black Legion/Word Bearers. Doing the sums in my head, i'm also confident the costings are fair compared with other recent codicii.

 

But as I said I like Night Lords, specifically of the ADB Soul Hunter variety (already have 2500 points worth), and don't see anything in the new book that enables you to distinguish them from a "vanilla" Black Legion build. I acknowledge there is the Master of Deception warlord trait, but that's a 1-in-6 chance each time around. Would have liked it if Warlord Traits could just be picked and paid for, rather than left up to the dice.

 

Hypothetically, how would people feel if an opponent offered to pay lets say 50points to pick a trait, rather than trusting to chance? Suppose i'm really just annoyed that Chosen have lost "Infiltrate", as previously I felt that this (+ some Raptors and DS-ing Atramentar) was the only real avenue to representing NL strategy, and now even that is taken away!

 

Even as I write this, I am getting more annoyed and disappointed, as I feel Night Lords (and suppose you could argue Alpha Legion and Iron Warriors) have really been made second-class in this book.

 

Like I say, I think the book is a success from the PoV of the 4 main powers. Would be interested to know what other NL/AL/IW players think this book does for them, and if i'm just missing something in my study of the book.

 

cheers, P.

 

Huron is here to give you that Master of Deception, you know.

Then, the legions weren't even existing in the last codex. If you want to see them getting some love, 3.5.

 

didn't see that, thanks - BUT - again, just feel it's a fail if I have to have Huron (or any one specific character, never mind one not of the VIII) to represent/lead the NL.

[Vesper]

I'd also like multiple named characters for each Legion. But hey, we're not the SM.

[Killax]

I'd also like multiple named characters for each Legion. But hey, we're not the SM.

 

Yeah, I also feel like GW really could have added another Dedicated Transport Option, the Rhino is cool and all but it feels like we got a bit shafted in not being able to take a Drop Pod. Overall this is not a huge deal but gives us less options to make a viable army list.

[plasmaspam]

I'd also like multiple named characters for each Legion. But hey, we're not the SM.

 

that's the thing though, i don't think we need multiple named characters.

 

we have the four Marks to configure by a specific god. I was hoping all they would do would add to that table with for example "Legacy of Curze/Alpharius/Perturabo/etc" - pick your warlord, buy him a mark (can only have one!), BINGO - your army gets it's flavour.

[Vesper]

The lack of a drop-pod counterpart is a real shame. We don't have razorbacks or combat squads... We should vae drop-pods...

[Killax]

- Chaos Spawn: Useless Beyond Reason

 

No, no, no, no, no. Became well worth considering. For me Spawn are 2nd pick after the no brainer - bikes.

 

Dallas

 

I would strongly suggest starting WFB if you really have plans for them. For 2 you can have a unit of Cultists with autoguns or 2 flamers.

[Iron Sage]

Every single unit except Cultists, HQ, Muties, Oblits, Warp Talons and vehicles have Icons. Cult Troops of all things can take Icons now. The only unit I disagree with not having an Icon are the Cultists and the Basic Lords/Sorcerers.

 

Yes, I see that. But why do they not aid Deep Strike anymore? That was one of the coolest, fun things in the Gavdex & now it's gone :'(

 

Also, DPs aren't Marked. They are upgraded to a specific "Daemon of this God" which gives them "Hatred(That God)". It's not the same as a Mark.

 

You know what I mean though, my point is why do you HAVE to upgrade? Why can't you just stay undivided? Do Word Bearers not have DPs?

 

And actually, people are angry because we didn't get some über-powered Codex that would allow us to just wipe the field with any army we came across.

 

Yes, you will get them. I'm not one of those people. I don't want cheese. I only have a few gripes but the biggest is I wanted to see more than a few DWs though.

 

Dallas

 

Maybe you should read the OP and let people state their opinions. You stated yours. No need to seek to persuade everyone else with "angry rants", when it`s individual opinions the OP wanted. It just becomes incredibly tedious to read.

 

Thanks.

 

Edit: Sir, please do not take this personally. It is merely a request. Actually, I will create a new thread for those of you who feel like "unloading" :)

[Kol Saresk]

As a Night Lord, I like this Dex. It's balanced. Very well balanced. We're not overpowered, we're not underpowered. We have multiple options to go with. If you think we need a Fast Attack army in order to be Night Lords, then I'm sorry but what you want is the 3.5 list, not the Night Lords Legion. Their list was made 3.5 because it was the only way GW could think of putting an army that attacks after gaining tactical superiority and terror tactics onto the table. There millions of ways terror tactics can be represented outside of Fast Attack. Besides, wasn't the Night Lords Legion devoted to Khorne back in 2nd Edition? Just as the Alpha Legion were devoted to Tzeentch?

 

Back to topic, yes it doesn't have as many options as the overpowered 3.5. Yes it doesn't have the mystical "Legion" builds that 3.5 had. Yes it doesn't have even half of the armoury that was in 3.5. But I already know of where one person played against Grey Knights and won. The Grey Knights. One of the most overpowered, unbalanced armies so far in existence. I mean really, this thing has my support if it can do that.

[Dammeron]

^ Given that the Icon of Despair provides the "fear" special rule, it's entirely possible to effectively represent Night Lord terror markings now, which IMO, is far closer to the core ethos of the legion than any fast attack options.

[Kol Saresk]

^ Given that the Icon of Despair provides the "fear" special rule, it's entirely possible to effectively represent Night Lord terror markings now, which IMO, is far closer to the core ethos of the legion than any fast attack options.

Exactly. Just have to take a Mark of Nurgle to do it, but Night Lords are supposed to be willing to use the powers of the Dark Gods, even their Marks. Ironically, I think they're more willing to take Marks than the Word Bearers. What's up with that?

[plasmaspam]

As a Night Lord, I like this Dex. It's balanced. Very well balanced. We're not overpowered, we're not underpowered. We have multiple options to go with. If you think we need a Fast Attack army in order to be Night Lords, then I'm sorry but what you want is the 3.5 list, not the Night Lords Legion. Their list was made 3.5 because it was the only way GW could think of putting an army that attacks after gaining tactical superiority and terror tactics onto the table. There millions of ways terror tactics can be represented outside of Fast Attack. Besides, wasn't the Night Lords Legion devoted to Khorne back in 2nd Edition? Just as the Alpha Legion were devoted to Tzeentch?

 

Back to topic, yes it doesn't have as many options as the overpowered 3.5. Yes it doesn't have the mystical "Legion" builds that 3.5 had. Yes it doesn't have even half of the armoury that was in 3.5. But I already know of where one person played against Grey Knights and won. The Grey Knights. One of the most overpowered, unbalanced armies so far in existence. I mean really, this thing has my support if it can do that.

 

Kol - i never played with v3.5, and my current (previous codex) base list only had one FA squad (7 raptors); rest was 2x Chosen squads, 3x Chaos Tacs, 1x Havoc, Termi Lord + 3 Termis.

 

Would really appreciate advice/thoughts on how you see NL flavour coming out of this book, which I (probably too simplistically) equate to Infiltrators and Raptors in lieu of a "Night Lords are great!!" set of legion-specific overpowering and cheesy rules.

[Vesper]

As a Night Lord, I like this Dex. It's balanced. Very well balanced. We're not overpowered, we're not underpowered. We have multiple options to go with. If you think we need a Fast Attack army in order to be Night Lords, then I'm sorry but what you want is the 3.5 list, not the Night Lords Legion. Their list was made 3.5 because it was the only way GW could think of putting an army that attacks after gaining tactical superiority and terror tactics onto the table. There millions of ways terror tactics can be represented outside of Fast Attack. Besides, wasn't the Night Lords Legion devoted to Khorne back in 2nd Edition? Just as the Alpha Legion were devoted to Tzeentch?

 

Back to topic, yes it doesn't have as many options as the overpowered 3.5. Yes it doesn't have the mystical "Legion" builds that 3.5 had. Yes it doesn't have even half of the armoury that was in 3.5. But I already know of where one person played against Grey Knights and won. The Grey Knights. One of the most overpowered, unbalanced armies so far in existence. I mean really, this thing has my support if it can do that.

 

3.5 wasn't "overpowered" per se. There are ways to exploit some tricks to gain an advantage. GK, SW and IG just have dirt cheap god units that are spammed. See, that's how 40k evolved.

 

Then, the NL list did not have an emphasis on FA slots. They had Night Vision, were limited to Chaos Undivided, gained a buff to cover saves, and the possibility to trade a HS slot for another FA one if they wanted. Those are the NL in 3.5. The ones you describe (those you'd like them to be) are the caricatures of a tabletop and paper reality. So please, just stop reinventing the 3.5 NL.

[Feste]

It's far too early for me to say much about the units but I really like the book itself, both the design and the organisation. The army list is really well put together, easy to read and has page numbers on everything. Creating an armoury with separate sections is very clever. It's got another gate-fold, presumably someone in the design team really likes them, I'm a bit surprised considering how much they tend to cost.

 

Has anyone noticed that the marks and icons 'interlock' with utlity? The MoN and MoT are expensive, but their respective Icon is cheaper while it's vice versa for the other two. I really like that, makes it far less of a auto-pick, although it's hard not to drool after Slaaneshi Raptors with an Icon.

 

I also really like the Random Table of Doom, aside from the usual +1 to Characteristic or USRs, I really like the Witch Eater and Icy Aura results. Lovely rules, just wish there was more of them. I know Dallas wasn't enamoured of the God Spells, but I dunno, I really, really like them. Bolt of Tzeentch being a beam, Plague Wind and Weapon Virus are nasty (can you imagine what Weapon Virus would do to Shoota Boyz!), all of them seem useful and better than the generic stuff.

 

Four heavily mutated thumbs, and one tentacle, up.

[Kol Saresk]

As a Night Lord, I like this Dex. It's balanced. Very well balanced. We're not overpowered, we're not underpowered. We have multiple options to go with. If you think we need a Fast Attack army in order to be Night Lords, then I'm sorry but what you want is the 3.5 list, not the Night Lords Legion. Their list was made 3.5 because it was the only way GW could think of putting an army that attacks after gaining tactical superiority and terror tactics onto the table. There millions of ways terror tactics can be represented outside of Fast Attack. Besides, wasn't the Night Lords Legion devoted to Khorne back in 2nd Edition? Just as the Alpha Legion were devoted to Tzeentch?

 

Back to topic, yes it doesn't have as many options as the overpowered 3.5. Yes it doesn't have the mystical "Legion" builds that 3.5 had. Yes it doesn't have even half of the armoury that was in 3.5. But I already know of where one person played against Grey Knights and won. The Grey Knights. One of the most overpowered, unbalanced armies so far in existence. I mean really, this thing has my support if it can do that.

 

Kol - i never played with v3.5, and my current (previous codex) base list only had one FA squad (7 raptors); rest was 2x Chosen squads, 3x Chaos Tacs, 1x Havoc, Termi Lord + 3 Termis.

 

Would really appreciate advice/thoughts on how you see NL flavour coming out of this book, which I (probably too simplistically) equate to Infiltrators and Raptors in lieu of a "Night Lords are great!!" set of legion-specific overpowering and cheesy rules.

 

I didn't play 3.5 either. I just know that the Legion list for the Night Lords was, no heavy support, extra Fast Attack slots and no Marks and as a result, the general opinion is if it ain't Fast Attack, it ain't Night Lords.

 

Gavdex, we had......... Moving on.

 

This one, from what I can see, right off the bat Lord of Deception is a Warlord trait so our HQ's can get it. But, if it is something you want to build around, Count-as Huron. He has a combat Familiar that does some extra damage(Only Strength 6 and AP- though for the Familiar) but he also generates one random power a turn and has the infiltrate ability.

 

The other way it can be done is to go Assault with Heavy Support back up. By that I mean, take a Lord or Sorcerer, give them say the Murder Sword or Black Mace, give them a Chosen Bodyguard that is geared for Close Combat, make some CSM geared for CC(Drop the Bolter for the free CCW), and make sure everyone has dedicated transports. In the Heavy Support, either put in some Havocs, Oblits, or pull out a Forgefiend for Long-range Heavy Support. Or a Mauler if you want close up. May only have AV12, but it can get the job done if you use it right. If you do want a Fast Attack, I'd recommend trying out the Warp Talons. Not too sure how they would play out, but that Warpflame ability with the Blind Rule and their Lightning Claws would make them perfect for being dropped into the middle of a big unit. The closer to that unit, the better. But, you can always use the Raptors and Bikes if you want.

 

For Marks, I would probably give the Troops the Mark of Khorne, sort of an ode to the 2nd Edition fluff of when the Night Lords were devoted to Khorne and to show their normal tactics of getting up close and personal. Either that or as Dammeron suggested, give them that Mark of Nurgle so they can take that very fluffy Icon of Despair(Great name that one) and gain the Fear rule.

 

If you want, you could go vehicle heavy. We're no longer limited to just the Predators, Vindicators and Defilers. We have some new toys to play with now. You could have a Warpsmith for your HQ. Or even a Dark Apostle. Fabius Bile would be a very fluff count-as HQ for the Night Lords as well. Yes, everything will be part of the "generic Black Legion List" because all we have is just this one list. But, we can build it to act as how we want it to act. We don't have to footslog across the map or have one of everything. Night Lords are weird because their "defined MO" is terror tactics. Almost anything can be a terror tactic. It doesn't have to be popping up behind someone and going "Ooga booga!" Sometimes the sound of artillery is enough to make a man break in fear. As such, the Night Lords can be anything from Fast Attack, to Shooty, to CC-Assault to just about anything. They are supposed to use the Marks of the Gods as they see fit without actually bowing knee to the Gods, that can be done. Nurgle could bless us for spreading Fear like it was a plague, Khorne for the sheer amount of deaths, Slaanesh for our enjoyment of the act and Tzeentch for the fact that he likes how we plan ahead so we can have an orgy of blood, panic and destruction that goes on uninterrupted. Or however you want to reason it.

[Kol Saresk]

As a Night Lord, I like this Dex. It's balanced. Very well balanced. We're not overpowered, we're not underpowered. We have multiple options to go with. If you think we need a Fast Attack army in order to be Night Lords, then I'm sorry but what you want is the 3.5 list, not the Night Lords Legion. Their list was made 3.5 because it was the only way GW could think of putting an army that attacks after gaining tactical superiority and terror tactics onto the table. There millions of ways terror tactics can be represented outside of Fast Attack. Besides, wasn't the Night Lords Legion devoted to Khorne back in 2nd Edition? Just as the Alpha Legion were devoted to Tzeentch?

 

Back to topic, yes it doesn't have as many options as the overpowered 3.5. Yes it doesn't have the mystical "Legion" builds that 3.5 had. Yes it doesn't have even half of the armoury that was in 3.5. But I already know of where one person played against Grey Knights and won. The Grey Knights. One of the most overpowered, unbalanced armies so far in existence. I mean really, this thing has my support if it can do that.

 

3.5 wasn't "overpowered" per se. There are ways to exploit some tricks to gain an advantage. GK, SW and IG just have dirt cheap god units that are spammed. See, that's how 40k evolved.

 

Then, the NL list did not have an emphasis on FA slots. They had Night Vision, were limited to Chaos Undivided, gained a buff to cover saves, and the possibility to trade a HS slot for another FA one if they wanted. Those are the NL in 3.5. The ones you describe (those you'd like them to be) are the caricatures of a tabletop and paper reality. So please, just stop reinventing the 3.5 NL.

I'm not reinventing it. I'm ignoring it. It doesn't even add up to the IA article that was published alongside it, the same IA article that listed "gaining tactical superiority before launching an attack" in it. The same one that says they use the Marks of the Gods and summon Daemons.

[Vesper]

I didn't play 3.5 either. I just know that the Legion list for the Night Lords was, no heavy support, extra Fast Attack slots and no Marks and as a result, the general opinion is if it ain't Fast Attack, it ain't Night Lords.

 

The NL player COULD trade a HS for a FA slot. It was a possibility, it was up to you to choose what to do.

 

Nah, forget it, I guess I'll copy/paste the post where I explained how 3.5 worked, if you didn't even took the time to read it.

[Kol Saresk]

I saw it. But I remember all of the times that Jeske and everyone else said that in order to play Night Lords in 3.5, you had to make the trade. Now, you are not included in the everyone else. But everyone else who had that opinion is. Yes, it was an option. An option that was apparently taken by a great many people. So much so that everytime I wondered about a non-Fast Attack oriented Night Lords army, I was told that what I wanted wasn't a Night Lords army because Night Lords armies were Fast Attack. Yes, I want to take the Night Lords out of the paper and put them onto the tabletop. Those are the Night Lords I like, so why wouldn't I want to to do that? Who doesn't want to do that since the Night Lords were first invented in the paper?

 

EDIT: I made that comment before I saw your post. I'm not the fastest typer which meant you posted while I was still replying to plasmaspam.

[Vesper]

Oh come on, we all know that the legions are pretty stereotyped. Who'd say "Hey, I want to start a force of World Eaters ! Mass plague marines along with some obliterators !" People who want to play fluffy will want Raptors in a NL army, cultists in AL and stuff like that. That is clearly not true to the real fluff, I'm the first to say that, but that is GW's work.

GW is ok with putting Legions in tiny boxes, as it simplifies the fluff writing and the army design. Just take a look at our codex. Berzerkers are World Eaters, Noise Marines are Emperor's Children, and Raptors are Night Lords, ect.

That's an easy way to enter the faction. But you're not forced to apply it to your force. And that wasn't the case for 3.5 either (even if the mark things are something that I don't like). Just because you had the possibility to go for a stereotyped NL army doesn't mean you were unable to fill all you HS slot without even considering taking a FA crap.

[Iron Sage]

3.5 again, guys :D

 

*glances carefully up to the topic at hand*

[Dallas Drake]

- Chaos Spawn: Useless Beyond Reason

 

No, no, no, no, no. Became well worth considering. For me Spawn are 2nd pick after the no brainer - bikes.

 

Dallas

 

I would strongly suggest starting WFB if you really have plans for them. For 2 you can have a unit of Cultists with autoguns or 2 flamers.

 

 

Haha, yeah I do play WFB, as VC so they be no use to me on square bases... Well, I guess I (& a few others) see them differently in the new dex :D

 

 

 

Every single unit except Cultists, HQ, Muties, Oblits, Warp Talons and vehicles have Icons. Cult Troops of all things can take Icons now. The only unit I disagree with not having an Icon are the Cultists and the Basic Lords/Sorcerers.

 

Yes, I see that. But why do they not aid Deep Strike anymore? That was one of the coolest, fun things in the Gavdex & now it's gone :'(

 

Also, DPs aren't Marked. They are upgraded to a specific "Daemon of this God" which gives them "Hatred(That God)". It's not the same as a Mark.

 

You know what I mean though, my point is why do you HAVE to upgrade? Why can't you just stay undivided? Do Word Bearers not have DPs?

 

And actually, people are angry because we didn't get some über-powered Codex that would allow us to just wipe the field with any army we came across.

 

Yes, you will get them. I'm not one of those people. I don't want cheese. I only have a few gripes but the biggest is I wanted to see more than a few DWs though.

 

Dallas

 

Maybe you should read the OP and let people state their opinions. You stated yours. No need to seek to persuade everyone else with "angry rants", when it`s individual opinions the OP wanted. It just becomes incredibly tedious to read.

 

Thanks.

 

Edit: Sir, please do not take this personally. It is merely a request. Actually, I will create a new thread for those of you who feel like "unloading" ;)

 

Firstly, I'm not ''unloading''.

 

Secondly, I'm quite happy for people to state their opinions, in fact it's what I want! But are you happy for me to state mine? I'm not even ranting about the codex (go Warseer, see that stuff :(), I have no problem with the new dex really aside from a few things here & there & I'm certainly not seeking to persuade anyone one way or the other. In fact, if anything I'm hoping people can persuade me to see otherwise, especially in regard to DPs.

 

Thirdly, just because I don't jump on the GW fanbus & go 'Toot toot!' doesn't mean I should be singled out. I was hoping to have an in depth 'discussion' about this codex, if all you want is for me to just post 'yeah it's boss well done GW' then fine, I shall leave.

 

If I have offended anyone then I apologise unreservedly.

 

Dallas

[Wicced]

a little disappointed from my personal Night Lord point of view, but i'm looking forward to messing with the rules and trying to create a decent NL warband with this dex ;)

 

and now i'm off to build me a nice counts as huron blackheart :D

[Iron Sage]

- Chaos Spawn: Useless Beyond Reason

 

No, no, no, no, no. Became well worth considering. For me Spawn are 2nd pick after the no brainer - bikes.

 

Dallas

 

I would strongly suggest starting WFB if you really have plans for them. For 2 you can have a unit of Cultists with autoguns or 2 flamers.

 

 

Haha, yeah I do play WFB, as VC so they be no use to me on square bases... Well, I guess I (& a few others) see them differently in the new dex :)

 

 

 

Every single unit except Cultists, HQ, Muties, Oblits, Warp Talons and vehicles have Icons. Cult Troops of all things can take Icons now. The only unit I disagree with not having an Icon are the Cultists and the Basic Lords/Sorcerers.

 

Yes, I see that. But why do they not aid Deep Strike anymore? That was one of the coolest, fun things in the Gavdex & now it's gone :'(

 

Also, DPs aren't Marked. They are upgraded to a specific "Daemon of this God" which gives them "Hatred(That God)". It's not the same as a Mark.

 

You know what I mean though, my point is why do you HAVE to upgrade? Why can't you just stay undivided? Do Word Bearers not have DPs?

 

And actually, people are angry because we didn't get some über-powered Codex that would allow us to just wipe the field with any army we came across.

 

Yes, you will get them. I'm not one of those people. I don't want cheese. I only have a few gripes but the biggest is I wanted to see more than a few DWs though.

 

Dallas

 

Maybe you should read the OP and let people state their opinions. You stated yours. No need to seek to persuade everyone else with "angry rants", when it`s individual opinions the OP wanted. It just becomes incredibly tedious to read.

 

Thanks.

 

Edit: Sir, please do not take this personally. It is merely a request. Actually, I will create a new thread for those of you who feel like "unloading" :)

 

Firstly, I'm not ''unloading''.

 

Secondly, I'm quite happy for people to state their opinions, in fact it's what I want! But are you happy for me to state mine? I'm not even ranting about the codex (go Warseer, see that stuff :(), I have no problem with the new dex really aside from a few things here & there & I'm certainly not seeking to persuade anyone one way or the other. In fact, if anything I'm hoping people can persuade me to see otherwise, especially in regard to DPs.

 

Thirdly, just because I don't jump on the GW fanbus & go 'Toot toot!' doesn't mean I should be singled out. I was hoping to have an in depth 'discussion' about this codex, if all you want is for me to just post 'yeah it's boss well done GW' then fine, I shall leave.

 

If I have offended anyone then I apologise unreservedly.

 

Dallas

 

I am very sorry, Dallas. You certainly didn`t offend me. I am not on a "GW fanbus" myself. There are actually quite a lot of things I dont like about GW. I think you should have written a post where you spoke you opinion, which you also did. I didn`t criticise that at all, you know.

 

In retrospect, I should perhaps have said nothing. I don`t think what I said was very "agressive" though. But if you feel it was personal, which it was hardly intended as (I also edited it to actually explain that it was not), then it is I who should unreservedly apologice, which I hereby do. I just felt that the thread that was asking about what people think about the new codex, got a bit derailed into a discussion as to how and why it failed, and thus no longer really opening up for any indivdual opinions.