new codex

[Dallas Drake]

I am very sorry, Dallas. You certainly didn`t offend me. I am not on a "GW fanbus" myself. There are actually quite a lot of things I dont like about GW. I think you should have written a post where you spoke you opinion, which you also did. I didn`t criticise that at all, you know.

 

In retrospect, I should perhaps have said nothing. I don`t think what I said was very "agressive" though. But if you feel it was personal, which it was hardly intended as (I also edited it to actually explain that it was not), then it is I who should unreservedly apologice, which I hereby do. I just felt that the thread that was asking about what people think about the new codex, got a bit derailed into a discussion as to how and why it failed, and thus no longer really opening up for any indivdual opinions.

 

Nah, you're well within your rights to pull me up dude. I forget that the written word can be interpreted in many ways, if I was there talking you'd see I'm saying most of it in a friendly, joking manor. You weren't aggressive at all, I just love getting stuck into a good debate. If someone says, ''I think X is cool'' then fine but I want to know why? If I disagree then I'll say why & often I can be a bit blunt so soz for that. You are totally right that the thread was getting a bit derailed & I think it's best if I leave others to have their say. Have a great Sat night & no worries mate :)

 

Dallas

[Hazath]

I just noticed that Obliterators don't have 5+ invul save. I am hoping I'm missing something..

 

Am I missing something? :)

[Feste]

I just noticed that Obliterators don't have 5+ invul save. I am hoping I'm missing something..

 

Am I missing something? :)

Their Daemons, doesn't that give them a 5++?

[Iron Sage]

I just noticed that Obliterators don't have 5+ invul save. I am hoping I'm missing something..

 

Am I missing something? :)

Their Daemons, doesn't that give them a 5++?

 

Does indeed.

 

+5 invul and Fear :)

 

They are 5 points cheaper, cant shoot the same weapons other than every second round, but they gained asault cannon in addition to their own weapons.

 

Still good and very versatile.

[Hazath]

I just noticed that Obliterators don't have 5+ invul save. I am hoping I'm missing something..

 

Am I missing something? :)

Their Daemons, doesn't that give them a 5++?

 

 

Darn. I did not see that.

 

Thank you~ :)

[Feste]

In fact, as Iron Sage mentions, they can now take Marks. Including the MoT for a 4++. Which is nice.

[TheDarkApostle]

What other codex can potentially infiltrate 60 space marines

This has given me a sudden idea.

 

3 x 20 man strong Possessed units to infiltrate and rush straight into the enemy line.

 

2 x 5 man cultists units for compulsorily troop choices.

 

Huron as HQ.

 

Heldrake for anti-flyer and possibly anti-tank.

 

1990 points total.

 

Throw in a Gift of Mutation on one of the Possessed Champions and it's 2000 even.

 

One trick pony? You bet your ass.

 

Most likely going to fail miserably? You bet your ass, especially against pie-plate / heavy tank.

 

Will it be hilarious if you actually manage to infiltrate all three of the Possessed units? Oh hell yes it will :teehee:

 

TDA

[Kol Saresk]

The only problem I have with Huron's Lord of Deception is that it won't always be three squads. Unless you are amazing lucky on the rolls.

[TheDarkApostle]

Well, better get working on them dice rolling skills :teehee:

 

Besides, the look on your opponents face when there's suddenly even just 40 fearless MEQ with boosted strength and a 5++ at most 18" from his army is going to be priceless :tu:

 

TDA

[Kol Saresk]

Fair enough!

[Lord Ragnarok]

The only problem I have with Huron's Lord of Deception is that it won't always be three squads. Unless you are amazing lucky on the rolls.

 

You have to plan on only getting one to infiltrate. And making sure you are in a position to exploit any extras.

[Excessus]

The only problem I have with Huron's Lord of Deception is that it won't always be three squads. Unless you are amazing lucky on the rolls.

Adapt! You plan for what units you will infiltrate against different opponents and different rolls. Bring a variety of "infantry" units to be able to maximize your options(like havocs and termies perhaps, squads in rhinos), but minimum three to always being able to optimize his trait.

[Kol Saresk]

The only problem I have with Huron's Lord of Deception is that it won't always be three squads. Unless you are amazing lucky on the rolls.

Adapt! You plan for what units you will infiltrate against different opponents and different rolls. Bring a variety of "infantry" units to be able to maximize your options(like havocs and termies perhaps, squads in rhinos), but minimum three to always being able to optimize his trait.

I guess I should have typed that this is a very minor, minor, minor problem considering all of the responses I'm getting. :huh:

[Muskie]

It's an update of the Gavdex rather than a new attempt at Chaos. Which is a real shame, because it's almost as if PK was on the right lines but either 1) was rushed, 2) got reigned in, 3) couldn't be arsed.

 

Angry with the lack of icons to assist Deep Striking

Angry with the Terminators set-up

Angry with the lack of Daemon Weapons

Angry with DPs losing EW & having to be marked (anyone else play Word Bearers :cuss!?)

Angry with Possessed not getting assault grenades but I actually think these are an alright unit with Mok or MoT anyway.

Every single unit except Cultists, HQ, Muties, Oblits, Warp Talons and vehicles have Icons. Cult Troops of all things can take Icons now. The only unit I disagree with not having an Icon are the Cultists and the Basic Lords/Sorcerers.

 

Also, DPs aren't Marked. They are upgraded to a specific "Daemon of this God" which gives them "Hatred(That God)". It's not the same as a Mark.

 

And actually, people are angry because we didn't get some über-powered Codex that would allow us to just wipe the field with any army we came across.

 

Where does it say that Icons act as teleport homers for deep striking terminators or raptors? The fancy key states it, but it doesn't state that for icons when I had a quick look at the book.

 

Also Plaguemarines no longer have FNP? May have to build the big expensive Noise Marine Unit then, but mainly I'm just happy Plaguemarines are cheaper and can be made troops. I've painted so many... I need to paint a few more special weapons (plasmas) and maybe a new champ or two. I also plan to paint more undivided dudes with missile launchers and some Nurgle Terminators and Bikers. For Raptors I've always thought Khorne would be nice and relatively easy to do with plastic bezerker bits.

 

I need to read the book more thoroughly and play a couple games but it definitely seems to have a lot of new toys and Defilers or Walkers in general seem to be emphasized so along with Forgeworld there are some crazy builds if you have the $$$s.

[Muskie]

@Dallas Drake: not sure what codex you have but plague marines have feel no pain still.

 

Bezerkers still have the extra attack, its just there in the form of rage and counter attack. Granted having it when you're charged isnt a guarantee but its still really good.

 

I thought they did too. For squads I used to run they seem a tad cheaper, I think it is the free champ. I also will go back to running champs with melta bombs since the champs are kinda free now. I'm not sure how many power gloves I need or even how many plaguemarines I need. But I like to be able to run an all Nurgle army without Typhus.

[Muskie]

^ Given that the Icon of Despair provides the "fear" special rule, it's entirely possible to effectively represent Night Lord terror markings now, which IMO, is far closer to the core ethos of the legion than any fast attack options.

Exactly. Just have to take a Mark of Nurgle to do it, but Night Lords are supposed to be willing to use the powers of the Dark Gods, even their Marks. Ironically, I think they're more willing to take Marks than the Word Bearers. What's up with that?

 

Raptors cause fear without the Mark of Nurgle and special icon. They can waste 10 points to have the special icon and cause more fear which is silly as I pointed out as soon as I found it. Was considering Nurgle Raptors for a long time. I think I'll build Nurgle bikers and maybe Khorne Raptors. I'm even tempted to give the Mark of Tzeentch to a horde of cultists some day, not that I ever roll lucky... ;-)

[Muskie]

The only problem I have with Huron's Lord of Deception is that it won't always be three squads. Unless you are amazing lucky on the rolls.

 

Does Arhiman have Lord of Deception too? And yes it is D3 units, so you need your A infiltrating unit, and a plan where B and C don't get to infiltrate. 5 man cultists squads don't exist.

 

I always liked Outflank better than Infiltrate ever since that became an option. The problem is you don't control the turn or the flank they arrive. I like Lord of Deception, my question is does "Lord and his squad" mean the squad the independent character has currently joined as none of the characters seem to have a proper retinue...

[Kol Saresk]

Although I am aware that since 3.5, the Night Lords have been the Raptor Legion, I'm not exactly the most pro-Raptor individual around. Yes, I like them. They're just not what I want to build my army around.

[the jeske]

Well neither should AL be the "infiltration" army .

 

The thing is to make NL realy fluffy you would need a d66 table where you would roll pre battle [modified by number of squads taken and with raptors/cultists having different tables to roll] . you would get stuff like suicidial ammo dump run unit of cultists takes 3d6 str 3 ap - hits , but one opponent unit gets gets hot on all their weapons . With 66 being "children of nostrom" cultists geting shroud/stealth. raptors removing ATKNF fear immunity or forcing LD tests on 3d6 on some of the rolls . -1Ld you could put on on units[for 25pts] . Or something crazy like "visions of the dark lord" you rolld a 2d3 one d3 lowers the Ld of your HQ the other lowers the Ld of one opponent HQ[with psykers taking +1hit] which you could buy for any lord . But GW will never again give a legion a full page of rules. raptors NL are not all NL there are . But raptor hvy NL are better then having nothing .

[Kol Saresk]

To be honest, I think GW is pushing the Night Lords away from the Raptors this time around. Granted, they're throwing them onto the Warp Talons which have Fear, Warpflame Strike and Daemon. Probably not much of a difference, but Raptors are no longer the focus of the Legion apparently. But now there's the Icon of Despair, the Icon of Excess and even the Icon of Wrath could fit in pretty well. Make it infantry heavy that's based on Rapid Assault through Rhinos and footslogging with the Warp Talons providing either distraction runs or being used as reserve shock troops to break up enemy squads later in the game by dropping them right on top.

[the jeske]

The raptors fluff of orgin was not retconed in the new dex. Am just saying . Only thing they added was that other legion had them too , which isnt actualy anything new , it was always there . all legions had terminators , raptors etc . But it was very specific legions who got does crazy ideas like lets drop 1000 dudes with jump packs as one force or lets use terminator armor not just for officers or single squads supporting other marines , but as one big formation . Or to not just touch heretic legions . mass biker formations .

[Kol Saresk]

I know. I don't even think it lists a Legion of origin anymore. Just says that they've turned into murderers who kill to kill, prey on the weak and feed on fear. In the pics in the "Scions of Chaos" section, the Raptors are all painted in the Black Legion's colors and the Warp Talons are all Night Lords. Hence why I made the comment about the focus shifting from one to the other.

[Deadman Wade]

Had a first game with new codex today, I'm more than happy. VotLW is an insane boost in melee - my 10 berzerkers wiped thunderwolves with fully upgraded lord in two assault phases! Brand of Skalathrax on deep striking TDA Lord burned 2 Long fang squads. Terminators now aren't as killy as before - no champions for everyone, no combi-plasma+fist - but became a little cheaper because of that. And there are many ways to build your roster, much more options and units that are actually viable!

[Feste]

Well neither should AL be the "infiltration" army .

 

The thing is to make NL realy fluffy you would need a d66 table where you would roll pre battle [modified by number of squads taken and with raptors/cultists having different tables to roll] . you would get stuff like suicidial ammo dump run unit of cultists takes 3d6 str 3 ap - hits , but one opponent unit gets gets hot on all their weapons . With 66 being "children of nostrom" cultists geting shroud/stealth. raptors removing ATKNF fear immunity or forcing LD tests on 3d6 on some of the rolls . -1Ld you could put on on units[for 25pts] . Or something crazy like "visions of the dark lord" you rolld a 2d3 one d3 lowers the Ld of your HQ the other lowers the Ld of one opponent HQ[with psykers taking +1hit] which you could buy for any lord . But GW will never again give a legion a full page of rules. raptors NL are not all NL there are . But raptor hvy NL are better then having nothing .

Rules like that would have been awesomely funny.

[Forté]

It's a pretty codex but basically an update on the Gav Dex with a few tweaks and new units to tempt players to part with their cash.

 

Even after the whole time that they had to research players views and the fluff which gw has created over the years, its still impossible to do a proper list for each of the main know legions to have some character to your force. My lord has to have TDA to get a 2+ but every Imperial equivalent has access to something (Artificer, Runic...).

 

It's all pretty with no depth. Like the cast of The Only Way is Essex.