AmCjkh Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 So far the unit that excites me most in the new codex is the super cheap chaos bikes! It seems like most of the lists and ideas thrown around the B&C lately have included nurgle bikers to get that oh-so-sexy T6. But is it worth it? A regular bike is T5 for 20 points and a nurgle bike is T6 for 26 points. This means that price wise nurgle bikers pay 30% more. So which is tougher? Clearly the regular bikes will have more firepower and more close combat ability by virtue of having another model, although they'll also have a larger footprint. Their armor saves are the same so the difference comes solely from the toughness and to-wound roll, as ID is irrelevant too. S3 guns: MoN is irrelevant, regular bikes win by virtue of being cheaper. S4 guns: T5 is wounded on 5+, T6 on 6+. MoN bikers are twice as resilient, worth the +30% cost. S5 guns: T5 is wounded on 4+, T6 on 5+. MoN bikers are +33% more resilient, equivalent to the +30% cost. S6 guns: T5 is wounded on 3+, T6 on 4+. MoN bikers are +25% more resilient, less than the +30% cost. S7 guns: T5 is wounded on 2+, T6 on 3+. MoN bikers are +20% more resilient, less than the +30% cost. S8 guns: MoN is irrelevant, regular bikes win by virtue of being cheaper. So if we're just talking about resilience, MoN bikers are superior to regular bikers for their cost at S4 and roughly equal at S5. Against other strength guns having extra bodies with cheaper regular bikes is actually more resilient, and they bring more hitting power too. The one unavoidable knock on taking more bikes vs. nurgle bikes is the larger footprint of the unit. What do you guys think? Is MoN worth it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 I would run them in a larger unit 6-9 man strong, they are going to be pricey either way but a unit of 3 just seems like it would be lacking any sort of punch. Unless you throw on some meltaguns and just focus on tank hunting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbaron997 Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Id rather not get them to pricy, for an undivided list like mine without the MoN is fine for me, now if I was playing a Nurgle list I'd probably still take it for character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Id rather not get them to pricy, for an undivided list like mine without the MoN is fine for me, now if I was playing a Nurgle list I'd probably still take it for character. His name is Redbaron...You MUST listen to him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik Riorik Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 S3 guns: MoN is irrelevant, regular bikes win by virtue of being cheaper. That's a little miss there. MoN isn't irrelevant since at S3 the mark is infinetly better than not having it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmCjkh Posted October 6, 2012 Author Share Posted October 6, 2012 S3 guns: MoN is irrelevant, regular bikes win by virtue of being cheaper. That's a little miss there. MoN isn't irrelevant since at S3 the mark is infinetly better than not having it. Very true! I missed that :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Wait, what am I missing here, if anything? Having str 3, you still need only 6 to wound T 6. T7 would be the limit of being "too tough" there, unless my rule book is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attomsk Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Here is how I see it: -Khorne bikers on the charge the will unleash more attacks (1 more per guy) at a higher strength and the lord alone can strike 7-12 times @STR7 AP2 Initiative 5. (they will also have counter attack & charge range reroll) -Nurgle bikers will be T6, the lord will have his 6-11 attacks @AP4 STR4 (wound on a 2+) and will have a chance to kill a few more things with those toughness tests. -Slaanesh bikers will attack as much as the nurgle ones, but at I5 & can have feel no pain. The slaanesh lord will have attacks similar to the nurgle one but at I6. I think I plan on trying out both the Khorne bikers and Nurgle ones right now, in a squad of 6 (including the lord). Slaanesh ones would probably be better than nurgle ones, due to FNP being good against any STR attack. I really don't know which will be best but the Khorne ones excite me the most with that high STR AP2 lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik Riorik Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Wait, what am I missing here, if anything? Having str 3, you still need only 6 to wound T 6. T7 would be the limit of being "too tough" there, unless my rule book is wrong. Oh is it? I haven't read a To Wound-chart in 8 years or so since I learned to play Warhammer and i can't remember the last time I was in a situation trying to wound something that was +3T over my S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 I think S5-6 are close enough to be equivalent for the most part. Less then 10% difference isn't a major factor to me. That said, I know if I saw bikers (of any sort) I would start firing krak missiles or equivalents into them, to help insure a quick and easy kill. I wouldn't be using S4-5 weapons on them unless there was no other target. In my mind, this means the strength of their toughness (yeah... that made sense) is improved once they get into assault where they have less chance of being blasted by ordnance or missile spamming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskie Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 I plan to run a Nurgle Lord on a bike. I also plan to paint a small Nurgle biker squad to ride with him. If you want to maximize attacks on the charge Khorne is the way to go, but I'm assuming taking at least one round of shooting even if on a flank and a table with a fair amount of cover. The other tactic to employ if you have a biker lord is some other big juicy target that is easier to hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azekai Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 I am going to be picking up some plague marines riding chaos steeds to use as counts-as bikers. T6 pretty much requires them to be targeted with heavy weapons, which means my princes and defilers will reach their targets intact (also they get cover for moving fast). T6 might not count for a whole lot against high strength weapons, but when they hit their targets they will be very hard to kill n assault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 MoN is great, on bikers, havocs and obliterators! Anything that just has a few ammount of wounds with a 3+ save loves MoN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoros Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 I'll take it for hypothetical Night Lords bikers. Not so much for the T6, but for the scary icon. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 How does the nurgly resiliance at T6 compare to slaaneshi standard giving feel no pain at T5? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 I'll take it for hypothetical Night Lords bikers. Not so much for the T6, but for the scary icon. :down: Please say your joking xD! Feel no pain is also very nice, probably the next best option. Why do I prefer T6? Because they are able to survive any bolter/lasgun shot at them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 I'm thinking bikers with mark of tzeentch with either melts guns or plasma guns to soo port thousand sons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoros Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 I'll take it for hypothetical Night Lords bikers. Not so much for the T6, but for the scary icon. :P Please say your joking xD! :) ...Why? :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lepaca Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Since I'm really not digging MoN on bikers for fluff reasons I think I will be taking 6 or 7 Slaanesh Bikers with FNP. Now do I add a lord on bike or a lord on Steed of Slaanesh for outflanking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Since I'm really not digging MoN on bikers for fluff reasons I think I will be taking 6 or 7 Slaanesh Bikers with FNP. Now do I add a lord on bike or a lord on Steed of Slaanesh for outflanking? Am I the only one who is thinking about adding some sort of "decorative images" on Slaaneshi bikes? It would make a lot of sense, fluff-wise. :yes: Back on tactical matters: I think FnP on a T5, armour 3+ and a potential 3++ cover save is priceless. I know T6 is good but ML will still wound you on 2+. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarlordEXE Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 I dont have the book infront of me, but based on what every one is saying (t5, fnp for slanesh; t6 for nurgle) the math seems to come out with better survival odds on slanesh using MEQ bs and ranging from strength 3 to strength 8 . only for stre 3 shots are less likely to wound nurgle, but thats cause i think stre 3 can't wound t 6? As far as points cost i can't tell you that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 I dont have the book infront of me, but based on what every one is saying (t5, fnp for slanesh; t6 for nurgle) the math seems to come out with better survival odds on slanesh using MEQ bs and ranging from strength 3 to strength 8 . only for stre 3 shots are less likely to wound nurgle, but thats cause i think stre 3 can't wound t 6? As far as points cost i can't tell you that. S3 wounds both T5 and T6 on 6, so FnP on T5 models means less unsaved wounds then a T6 when they suffer S3 attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 ...Why? :D What exactly are you going to scare with your "fear"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 ...Why? ;) What exactly are you going to scare with your "fear"? Non fearless and non "and they shall know no fear" models ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 ...Why? ;) What exactly are you going to scare with your "fear"? Non fearless and non "and they shall know no fear" models ;) What exactly are you going to scare with your "fear"? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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