Multiple Detachments, Allies, Chapter Tactics

[Valkyrion]

If you are playing with multiple detachments then you can obviously take a second allied detachment as long as it is drawn from the same codex as the other allied detachment.

 

If I want to ally my two Dark Angel detachments (for example) with Salamanders (1st) and Crimson Fists (2nd), and include the appropriate special characters, do my Salamanders and Crimson Fists both benefit from their own chapter tactics, or do they count as one army for the purposes of chapter tactics meaning I have to choose?

 

(apologies if this has been asked, I tried searching but it kept hanging)

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

Chapter Tactics only benefit units selected from the same Codex, and in the same detachment.

[Valkyrion]

So that means allied detachment 1 would benefit from the twin linked melta, whilst allied detachment 2 would benefit from stubborn, right?

[dswanick]

So that means allied detachment 1 would benefit from the twin linked melta, whilst allied detachment 2 would benefit from stubborn, right?

Per the FAQ, some of the special character rules were updated with the "unit(s) chosen from Codex: Space Marine" extra. So:

- Vulkan, Chapter Tactis : has been updated to affect units from C:SM.

- Cantor, Chapter Tactics : has been updated to affect units from C:SM.

Just as if you were building a single detachment of C:SM with these two special characters, you will need to choose whether both Allied detachments benefit from Stuborn or MC/TL wargear.

 

Meanwhile, all C:SM units from both Allied detachments will benefit from Cantor's Inspiring Presence.

[pyroknight]

They count as one army. You have to pick which chapter tactics would apply.

 

You could always ask your gaming group to house rule it otherwise however.

[ShadowHaunt]

They count as one army. You have to pick which chapter tactics would apply.

 

You could always ask your gaming group to house rule it otherwise however.

 

I'm not sure that I disagree, but, as this is OR, can anyone cite a rule for this, as opposed to their own opinions? I can honestly see it going either way. I don't have my books with me here at work, but I don't recall this being addressed, and it doesn't seem to me to be either unfluffy, or unbalancing, to have one detachment's Chapter Tactics apply to it, while a different one applies to the other. You would not, of course, benefit from both Chapter Tactics on the same unit, as the unit must surrender Combat Tactics in exchange, and once it has given it up for it's own detachment, it could not do so again, for the other HQ's bonuses.

 

Again, I think treating them as the same army is perfectly reasonable, but I think this is an open question, for RAW.

[dswanick]

They count as one army. You have to pick which chapter tactics would apply.

 

You could always ask your gaming group to house rule it otherwise however.

 

I'm not sure that I disagree, but, as this is OR, can anyone cite a rule for this, as opposed to their own opinions? I can honestly see it going either way. I don't have my books with me here at work, but I don't recall this being addressed, and it doesn't seem to me to be either unfluffy, or unbalancing, to have one detachment's Chapter Tactics apply to it, while a different one applies to the other. You would not, of course, benefit from both Chapter Tactics on the same unit, as the unit must surrender Combat Tactics in exchange, and once it has given it up for it's own detachment, it could not do so again, for the other HQ's bonuses.

 

Again, I think treating them as the same army is perfectly reasonable, but I think this is an open question, for RAW.

VULKAN HE'STAN - Special Rules

Chapter Tactics: If you include He'stan then all units in your army lose the Combat Tactics special rule. Instead, all thunder hammers in your army will count as master-crafted, and all flamers, heavy flamer, meltaguns and multimeltas count as twin-linked. If more than one character in your army has the Chapter Tactics special rule, you must choose which version will apply.

Your "Army" consists of all of the forces you select, from all Primary and Allied Detachments, as well as any non-FoC units and even Fortifications. As a "Codex: Space Marine" "Army", your Primary Detachment FoCs consisit of units selected from C:SM. Per the rule quoted above, multiple ICs with Chapter Tactics give all the C:SM units in your Army the benefit, but you may only benefit from one ICs Chapter Tactics.

[cielaq]

FAQ:

Page 93 – Vulkan He’stan, Chapter Tactics.

Change the first sentence to read “If you include Vulkan

He’stan in your army then all friendly units chosen from Codex:

Space Marines lose the Combat Tactics special rule. Instead, all

thunder hammers carried by friendly models from Codex: Space

Marines gain the Master Crafted special rule and all flamers,

heavy flamers, meltaguns and multimeltas carried by friendly

models from Codex: Space Marines have the Twin-Linked special

rule”.

[Jacinda]

Change the first sentence to read“

;)

I double checked and that is indeed how it is worded.

 

 

So by RAW, the rule would be:

 

"If you include Vulkan He’stan in your army then all friendly units chosen from Codex: Space Marines lose the Combat Tactics special rule. Instead, all thunder hammers carried by friendly models from Codex: Space Marines gain the Master Crafted special rule and all flamers, heavy flamers, meltaguns and multimeltas carried by friendly models from Codex: Space Marines have the Twin-Linked special rule. Instead, all thunder hammers in your army will count as master-crafted, and all flamers, heavy flamer, meltaguns and multimeltas count as twin-linked. If more than one character in your army has the Chapter Tactics special rule, you must choose which version will apply."

 

Well, that's not entirely helpful.

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

FAQ:

Page 93 – Vulkan He’stan, Chapter Tactics.

Change the first sentence to read “If you include Vulkan

He’stan in your army then all friendly units chosen from Codex:

Space Marines lose the Combat Tactics special rule. Instead, all

thunder hammers carried by friendly models from Codex: Space

Marines gain the Master Crafted special rule and all flamers,

heavy flamers, meltaguns and multimeltas carried by friendly

models from Codex: Space Marines have the Twin-Linked special

rule”.

And according to the rulebook, Allied detachments must be chosen from a different Codex, you're left with no way to "double-team" Chapter tactics, however much you might try.

[Jacinda]

And according to the rulebook, Allied detachments must be chosen from a different Codex, you're left with no way to "double-team" Chapter tactics, however much you might try.

The way I was reading it, the Dark Angels (C:DA) are the main army with C:SM being the allied codex. Then, with a 2000+ game you get double the FOC. The second allied detachment would also be from the C:SM even tho they would be from a different chapter.

[DarkGuard]

Unless the main force is Dark Angels, and the two allied detachments are from C:SM as described.

 

Personally, I think the main issue here is that if both detachments follow both Chapter Tactics, you can't apply them. On the one hand Vulkan erases Combat Tactics, meaning you can't apply Pedro's Chapter Tactics. On the other hand Pedro replaces Combat Tactics with Stubborn, meaning you have no Combat Tactic for Vulkan to choose. So even if you could pick both because each one was a separate army or whatever then that conundrum would still mean only one is used.

[cielaq]

Isn't it the same situation we would have if those two guys were in one primary detachment? I mean, both have the rule replacing Chapter Tactisc - what is the difference if they are in (doubled) allied detachment or in primary one (doubled or not)? I think we should apply the same rules as we were using before 6th edition mutltiple detachments.

[dswanick]

Isn't it the same situation we would have if those two guys were in one primary detachment? I mean, both have the rule replacing Chapter Tactisc - what is the difference if they are in (doubled) allied detachment or in primary one (doubled or not)? I think we should apply the same rules as we were using before 6th edition mutltiple detachments.

Correct, that's what I posted earlier in the thread. Whether the two ICs are in the same detachment or two different detachments (Primary or Allied) makes no difference, you still have to choose the one Chapter Tactics rule to affect all the C:SM units in your army.