Dissapointments with the new codex.

[Vesper]

So, as a designer you are tasked with making a new and unique flier for Chaos? and you go for a frigging DRAGON? Get out of my 40K!

 

 

They dropped the ball on that one, hard.

I am with you 100%. I cannot believe someone honestly pitched this. And I cannot believe someone else actually greenlighted it.

 

But then, there have been so many questionale design decisions in the past few years, perhaps I should not be surprised. It does sadden me, though.

 

The Helldrake is at home with stuff like dreadknights or thunderwolves.

Which is pretty sad for us as I would loved to have a really cool and CSM-looking flyer.

[Payce]

The Dragon,

 

The Gods DAMNED Dragon. :down:

 

Agree 100% with this.

 

The model is OK, I guess, at the very best. The rules are nowhere near. Overcosted, under-armed and allround unimpressive. It's inferior to most other flyers, it's running a signle weapon and the swoop rule hardy makes up for it. As an anti-flyer it is largely unimpressive, as an anti-anything-else its job can be done cheaper and better by other units.

 

I'd accept it at perhaps 140 or 145 points, but it's not worth a single point more in my opinion.

 

Also the Terminator weapons thing really turned me off painting up any new Terminators. No sale there, GW, sorry.

[Bat33.1]

My main disappointment is not so much the codex, yes it could have been better in places but many of the recent rumours had me fearing the worst anyway. No, my issue is the new release mini's. The new HQ units are fine enough but I'm not fussed on the dragon, fiends, or mutliators. Raptors/warp talons are fine enough models but not sure if I want to use them and I am very disappointed in no new plastic oblit/mutilator kit. It all feels so half hearted from GW, and I thought Chaos marines were supposed to be the greatest threat to the Imperium of man? No wonder it's been stalemate for the last 10,000 years :down:

[Killax]

Just one mayor gripe:

 

- Where the hell is our Dreadclaw?! !!?!?

 

Call it a Bruteclaw if you want, I don't care but having only the Rhino as a dedicated transport option is just pure sadness allround.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Guess what some of the termis I just made, thinking they were a safe bet as the basic load out had been unchanged every edition? That is making me rethink those Tartarus terminators I was thinking as an extra sort of bodyguard for Ahriman.

[Brother Ambroz]

I hope they realize how badly designed mutilators are (modelwise and ruleswise) when no one buys them.

[Urauloth]

Well I certainly HOPE no one buys them.

 

In terms of the codex I'm only disappointed by the TDA weapons screwup, which I'm still holding out hope is a mistake and will be rectified in a FAQ. And the heldrake, but whatever. I didn't much want a flyer anyway. I get why other people are disappointed by it though.

 

Everything else is fantastic, better than I was hoping for. It's the best chaos 'dex to date imho, a great balance of elements and a fantastic toolkit for hammering out themed warbands. Love it.

[Plaguecaster]

I hate the fact we only have rhinos and a landraider to transport our units why the heck would chaos ditch all their dreadclaw and drop pods and only use our metal boxes to drive into the enemy, we are chaos for <_< sake we have all these Warpsmiths (dumb name why couldn't they stick with warsmith much cooler) so why cant they get off their butts and make a super daemon transport tank lazy idiots I mean loyalists get so many land raider variants its not funny I reckon it would be cool getting a defiler that could transport a unit which would be funny or a Obliterator land raider if we can make daemon engines, and have obliterators or mutilators being able to morph their guns/ weapons why cant they make land raiders do it too would be epic and would buy 3.

other things I don't like

1. lack of god specific wargear, daemon weapons and veichle upgrades for each god including undivided

2. the sorcerer being unable to unlock cult units as troops (apart from 1K sons) as I am a huge Nurgle sorceror fan

3. being unable to take plague zombies unless you have typhus

4. every new hq being in finecast so harder to convert to each god why couldn't they release a boxset for each Hq so you can have options to have them dedicated to each god or part of a certain legion.

 

right thats my little rant apart from that I love the new codex and like a lot of things in it mostly T6 Nurgle spawn and bikers, cheap sorcerers, awesome psychic powers, hordes of cultists or plague zombies plus those dinobots as much as I hate to admit it they seem to be growing on me as I like the butcher cannon sorry Hades autocannon

[Iron Sage]

Bah, yes, mutilators. Some how I had forgotten them on my short list of dissapointments.

[ImperialGuardian]

Are people not mentioning the lack of Eternal Warrior on the Daemon prince because they

a.) don't use daemon princes

b.) it has already been mentioned

c.) don't think there is much of a chance that they will play against a vindicator, a librarian, a dreadnaught, Sicarius, or Lysander

 

The reason this irritates me so much is that GW expects chaos players to have 'spare' daemon princes all lined up and ready to go when the boon happnes... and yet they nerfed the basic one. It is my brother's best model, he spend so much time on it and I was really excited to see it on the field. I guess they want it to get insta-deathed so that when the boon happens you can just take it right from the casualty bin...

 

 

This is a debbie downer thread but I dont want to seem like a troll so I want to take back my comments on the mutilator.

I do like the fact that the mutilator can take a mark of nurgle.

 

+ With T5, the mutilator can stand its own to the hammernator. Keep in mind that GW does know the CSM hammernator is under priced. Just in case you don't have the newer codexes like space wolves, it costs in the low 60's to get a wolf guard in TDA, TH, SS.

 

+ The mutilator w/ mark of nurgle is also low 60's... 2 points less than the space wolf hammernator.

 

Without doing the full calculation, 3 mutilators with mark of nurgle against 3 space wolf terminators w/ TH and SS is a very even fight.... so the points make sense here. The mutilators get 2 wounds (no insta gimp due to T5) and a 5++ save on each of these wounds which is almost as good as the 3++ of the termies single wound.* The mutilators however get one extra attack on offense (even 3 S5 attacks from switching to power axes is better than 2 S8 attacks statistically). The mutilators are also better against non 3++ save units as well due to the weapon variety and number of attacks

 

* ok i lied... here is the math. 1 terminator will die on average for every 3 AP2 wounds that get through. 1 mutilator will die on average for every 2.3 AP2 wounds that get through

[Iron Sage]

It`s annoying, and most of us have daemon princes. They were too cheap in the last codex though, while a lot of other stuff was way too expensive and/or weak.

 

Losing EW is sad, but its not such a big crisis. If your daemon prince has wings, it is very unlikly that a vindicator is what is going to kill it.

 

Far more dissapointed with the mutilator, the slightly too expensive sons and the lack of assault grenades or equalent on the possessed, than the daemon prince,

 

Daemon prince seems mostly okay. Seems as if GW wants to remove most of the EW all around. Not complaining about that really, though I can agree that the daemon prince is not the first model that should lose it.

 

If your brothers daemon prince is modeled with wings, it still seems a pretty decent choice in high point games. The thing about current DPs are that they are now too expensive to take as HQs in 1500 points lists, and I confess, I think this is about time. I hated the unfluffy daemon prince spam in 5ed. Now they seem more like proper princes to me, and their cost seems about right really.

[ImperialGuardian]

wow... you really are quite the Sage...

 

You cured my inner rage that was building.

 

If GW is indeed reducing the number of EW models then I agree that is a really good thing. To be honest I wish they would have just fixed Instant Death and EW in the rule book(give it multiple levels like the rumor book had)

[Iron Sage]

wow... you really are quite the Sage...

 

You cured my inner rage that was building.

 

If GW is indeed reducing the number of EW models then I agree that is a really good thing. To be honest I wish they would have just fixed Instant Death and EW in the rule book(give it multiple levels like the rumor book had)

 

Please note: I don`t know that GW wants to make EW far rarer as a special rule. But it "seems" that way. But yeah, I think EW was too common (is too common), but yes, I confess that daemon princes should have a better reason for having it than very many other units. Just remember that if the Dp is flying, there is not exactly a lot of skyfire around with str 10 ;)

[Trevak Dal]

Over all I like it, but there are some disappointing things.

 

I don't like that we don't have an artificer armor equivalent. We got a Chaos Iron Halo (Yay!), but no Daemon Armor. Also, not being able to put the Sigil of Corruption on a Daemon Prince Boo-hiss.

 

I don't like that we can't give chosen Bikes or Jump Packs, nor do I like that only Abaddon makes them troops. I wish that unmarked lords got Chosen as troops with Abaddon allowing ALL cult troops (cause he's got every mark...) and get the Black Crusader Warlord trait on top of making himself and any unit he joins Scoring so you could effectively have terminators as troops. I might see if the fellas will let me run one unit of them as troops with an Unmarked Lord/Special Character (or at least make them scoring like Sternguard).

 

Also really disappointed we didn't get any options for making Rhinos assault vehicles (open topped/whatever), nor did we get drop pods, and Dreadclaws lost their "dedicated transport" and take up a Fast Attack slot (and are 85 points a piece). And I don't like the 230 point Elephant with a Rhino capacity. If they were going to keep it the same, it could have been a dedicated transport for everyone.

 

And we didn't get the ability to Mark Daemon Engines.

 

On the marking in general, we can't "mix and match" as was rumored, so no Khorne Marked guys who cause Fear.

 

I don't like the inability to use the same weapon on Obliterators.

 

Nor do I like the lack of a "custom" Daemon Weapon, like in the Grey Knights codex. May have to see if the fellas will let me copy-paste that table to the Chaos Codex with the Chaos Daemon Weapon rules (roll of 1 take an auto wound etc. etc.) and have the AP of 3 base (no bindings on them-less safe than the ones available to the Inquisitors).

[Yogi]

That flyer, those dinobots. Rules seem boring. Nothing really interesting at all.

 

Space wolves got our codex we got trash.

[Iron Sage]

That flyer, those dinobots. Rules seem boring. Nothing really interesting at all.

 

Space wolves got our codex we got trash.

 

Hehehe.

[Trevak Dal]

That flyer, those dinobots. Rules seem boring. Nothing really interesting at all.

 

Space wolves got our codex we got trash.

 

*Liquid Snake voice* THEY'RE, fine. WE got all the FLAWED, RECESSIVE units!*/Liquid Snake voice*

 

It does feel a little like that. It sucks that we are the "Woah now guys, let's ramp the power level back," codex. Eh, maybe Matt Ward will write the Tau codex, I heard something about close combat suits. This one feels like a little bit more than a Chaos 5.5. It added the things that were missing from the last one, though they giveth and taketh a bit too much.

 

Plasma pistols could at least have cost less. I wish the Dark Apostle/Priest guy was an elites choice like rumored. Since I'll not ever take cultists...I don't see myself ever using him.

[Lexington]

One dumb hope I had, which went unrealized, was that Chaos Lords would be able to take multiple Marks again. Always a fun bit in the old 2nd Ed book. There's also some weird things that seem like typos or mistakes, like the oft-mentioned Terminator weapon issue, and the weird discrepancy with the Strength of Abbadon's weapons, which I swear have to be swapped by mistake.

 

Otherwise, though, what most are disappointed about, but I'm mostly upbeat about this Codex, both as a book and as a direction for 6th Edition as a whole. Like their Fantasy counterparts, the 40K designers seem be to gunning hard for balanced, interesting choices this time around. Though I guess we won't see a real test of that till Ward's first 6th Ed effort drops...

[Attomsk]

Honestly, it just feels like the release and codex are just so lazy & half assed. It just feels like they didn't really give a damn.

[Iron Sage]

One dumb hope I had, which went unrealized, was that Chaos Lords would be able to take multiple Marks again. Always a fun bit in the old 2nd Ed book. There's also some weird things that seem like typos or mistakes, like the oft-mentioned Terminator weapon issue, and the weird discrepancy with the Strength of Abbadon's weapons, which I swear have to be swapped by mistake.

 

Otherwise, though, what most are disappointed about, but I'm mostly upbeat about this Codex, both as a book and as a direction for 6th Edition as a whole. Like their Fantasy counterparts, the 40K designers seem be to gunning hard for balanced, interesting choices this time around. Though I guess we won't see a real test of that till Ward's first 6th Ed effort drops...

 

So true and agree 100%.

 

Quite sad that Ward has not yet been gently shooed away from games dev., but I guess there is hope, even for him. If he is writing Tau, I fear the worst though.

 

Edit:I dont agree on the multiple mark stuff though. Thats not necesary I think.

[Chimerical]

Veterans of the Long War. Should be built into every infantry unit and HQ as standard. THIS should be our special rule, ala ATSKNF, Reanimation, Mob Rule, etc. Not freaking 'Champions of Chaos' a.k.a. 'absurdly overconfident idiots of chaos'. Now it's just more notekeeping - 'yes, this squad has it, but this one doesn't' - and it makes the ones without it feel BLAAAAAND. Call it something else, so it applies to Legions and Renegades alike, I don't care, but we should have a standard special rule.

 

Champions of Chaos. It sucks. It works against us (because we are always forced to pay for the champion) without giving us any benefits. There should be some kind of bonus in the challenge, like a free hammer of wrath attack. And please let us choose not to buy champions.

 

Chosen. Give me Wolf Guard level flexibility and costs and I'd be cool with it. Also, when will GW figure out that no one in their right mind will pay 48 points for a power armour dude with lightning claws when you can get a Terminator with claws for 38? It's not like wolf guard are overpowered to Grey Hunter levels, so why are our equivalents so much worse?

 

Possessed. Wasn't it clear 5 years ago that these guys needed grenades?

 

Daemon Weapons. Inconsistent. At least make a special one for each mark of chaos. Also, give us back our dread axe so we can bump those 3++ saves a bit further to the margins of the meta-game and also have a reason to take a Daemon Prince with a Daemon Weapon.

 

Lack of Eternal Warrior reward. Seriously, make it expensive, whatever, but just give it to us.

 

Icons and Marks. Another lesson not learned over the 5 years of whinging. Make the mark give a stat boost and a special rule that turns marines into the equivalent of the cult legion troops, like in 3.5. It's just way less confusing, more streamlined, and allows people to create their fully themed legion armies, doing away with this stupid BS of 'here are my death guard with allied renegade nurgle-marked terminators. People who play renegades would be more than happy to play that way too, I've no doubt about it.

 

Icons. +1 Combat resolution is cool, but bring back the deep strike non-scatter for FRIENDLY units (i.e. to work for daemons as well). It just opens up a far more versatile deployment strategy - as it is, we're pretty much deploy everything on our side and move forward, or, take Ahriman / Slaanesh HQ with Steed. Our deep striking was far from overpowered compared to having drop pods where can spread out on landing + still shoot, and let's not forget the omnipresence of Grey Knight Strikers with warp quake. It should have remained as an option.

 

Flakk missiles. Too expensive for something which doesn't have interceptor as well as skyfire.

 

Dark Apostle and Warpsmith. Should be Elites, with Special Character or else more impressive generic versions in HQ, ala Chaplain/Reclusiarch and Techmarine/Master of the Forge.

 

CSMs. Weapon options are at inflated prices compared to loyalists. Why? WHY?! And don't tell me it's cause our marines are cheaper - that's because they've been stripped of special rules.

 

Noise Marines. Salvo is arse. One blastmaster per 10+ marines is arse (it should be 1 per 5).

Compare: 10 GK Strikers with 2 Psycannons, 8 Halberds, Psybolt Ammo = 280 points. 10 Noise Marines with Veterans, 8 Sonic Blasters, 1 Blastmaster, Champion with Doom Siren and Power Sword = 274 points. Who shoots better? Who fights at higher initiative? Who has better special rules? Who doesn't have to pay a HQ tax to become troops? Look, I know GK are stupid, but Noise Marines are supposed to own shooting, at the least.

 

Other cult legion units. Generally too expensive by a bit, and more or less copy-pasted from the last dex.

 

Generally overcosted Elites, Fast and Heavy choices. There are some exceptions like Autocannon Havocs, Bikers, and Terminators, but most things are simply so expensive that once we've covered the basics of 6 troops, HQ(s) and some anti-tank/flyer defense, we only get to choose one 'fun' thing at most. Most people are going for bikers, unsurprisingly. Which is a shame, cause my possessed, my dreadnaught, and my defiler are going to collect dust for another 5 years.

[Firefighter X]

From a strictly World Eater / Khorne Berzerker player [ I like them. And have tons of them ] here we go with my list of complaints.

 

The fluff sucks. It's all rehashed, recycled, cut & paste s*** we already knew.

The new artwork is lacking.

Loss of +1 attack on Khorne berzerkers [ Really? These guys are supposed to be the pinnacle of CC prowess, now they're just like everyone else only more expensive] They are now charge dependant more than ever.

Loss of BloodFeeder. NO IMAGINATION whatsoever put into the Daemon weapons

Berzerkers should have gained the FNP just like the Blood Angels DC to replace the loss of attacks

3 options for transporting troops. Foot slogging hordes, rhinos, generic land raiders. Same as before

No landraider variant options still only hauling 10 at a time. The Blood Angels got Storm Ravens, deep striking landraiders and flying dreads and we can't even get a damned drop pod. W.T.F. GW ?

No EW on Daemon Prince [ SERIOUSLY??] and now he costs a ton more. Really Power Armor on a winged DP now?

5 Termis for a special weapon now? You're joking, right ?

Chaos Termis STILL aren't fearless [ this is a glaring problem since the last dex ] unless the Lord is with them

Chaos termis have NO INVUL SAVES afforded to them.

If mutilators are meant to replace Termis in regards to elite CC they didn't get invul options either, so now what?

How the F*** are we supposed to deal with Turtle Hammernator armies now?

Personal icons have been replaced by crappy key so our stuff can still scatter all over the board now until the key holder gets a kill

Why the hell would I pay points to give my Berzerkers the Icon of Wrath. THEY ALREADY HAVE FURIOUS CHARGE! Why is this even an option? LAZY !

Having to PAY POINTS FOR CHAINAXES NOW? [ Are you F***ING KIDDING ME?] These come in the damn box and used to be just CCW's.

Chosen lost the infiltrator rule.

Loss of summoned daemons [ they made GREAT meat screens and helped bolster the ranks in CC ]

Defilers are now 195 BASE for the exact same layout, and yet Oblits are 5 points less now

 

 

These are just the issues I've found with my legion. I pitty the other guys. I'm sure they got hosed just as royally.

 

I'm going to stop now. I've got more but the more I type the more I want to punch Phil Kelly in the gob. You FAILED MISERABLY Phil, MISERABLY. Hell bring back Gav & Allesio. They did a better job than you did. Hell I wish Matt Ward would've done this one afterall.

 

FFX

[Deus de Mortalis]

Some things got nerfed and some things got boosted. GW always does this, so it is no real surprise. Anything that was must-have in the last codex becomes kind of "meh," and about half the things that were "meh" in the last codex become good in the current codex.

 

Deamon princes, obliterators, and even terminators got cut down a peg or two, as these were arguably the best units in the last codex. I think this was a mistake, however. Because although they were the great for their points when looking at just our codex, they weren't exceptional when compared to other codexes. With "codex creep" and the fact that these guys got nerfed a bit, doesn't bode well for the

 

At least now the least used units from the codex got a good boost. Bikers are good now! And the dreadnought is now more than usable!

 

I am really happy with how chaos lords turned out. They are much better than before. Sorcerers got a boost in some ways, but I'm not happy with the reduced statline.

 

Some things, like raptors, seem kind of the same how they were before. Also I was hoping to see havocs improve a little, but they really haven't.

 

Lastly, the way some of the options are don't make lots of sense and made some units lose flexibility. I'm not sure if I'm really happy with the marks or icons of chaos. The mark of tzeench granting a 6++ save seems completely useless unless it is on someone who already has an invulnerable save. I also used to like that the icons rewarded taking larger squad sizes, but now in some cases we are paying a steeper price for the marks, which will probably see their use decline.

[Rain]

Some things got nerfed and some things got boosted. GW always does this, so it is no real surprise. Anything that was must-have in the last codex becomes kind of "meh," and about half the things that were "meh" in the last codex become good in the current codex.

 

Deamon princes, obliterators, and even terminators got cut down a peg or two, as these were arguably the best units in the last codex. I think this was a mistake, however. Because although they were the great for their points when looking at just our codex, they weren't exceptional when compared to other codexes. With "codex creep" and the fact that these guys got nerfed a bit, doesn't bode well for the

 

At least now the least used units from the codex got a good boost. Bikers are good now! And the dreadnought is now more than usable!

 

I am really happy with how chaos lords turned out. They are much better than before. Sorcerers got a boost in some ways, but I'm not happy with the reduced statline.

 

Some things, like raptors, seem kind of the same how they were before. Also I was hoping to see havocs improve a little, but they really haven't.

 

Lastly, the way some of the options are don't make lots of sense and made some units lose flexibility. I'm not sure if I'm really happy with the marks or icons of chaos. The mark of tzeench granting a 6++ save seems completely useless unless it is on someone who already has an invulnerable save. I also used to like that the icons rewarded taking larger squad sizes, but now in some cases we are paying a steeper price for the marks, which will probably see their use decline.

 

I don't really agree with your premise. Oblits are still good, and termis were not good in of themselves, what was good was termicide squads, and that hasn't really changed. Most of the meh units stayed meh, the only exception being as you said the lords, which are now worth taking, a fact that I am quite happy for. As for dreads, they are still pretty crappy thought at least they aren't potentially worse than taking nothing as was the case in the past. Oh and havocs have "improved" in the sense that they can take flakk missiles for flyer defense. But yeah, although this codex isn't quite as awful as I initially thought upon seeing the first concrete leaks it still feels far too much like a modest update of the Gavdex with a few new units and a loosening of the arbitrary crap like no lightning claw champs or wargear for characters.

[RolandTHTG]

Chaos termis have NO INVUL SAVES afforded to them.

If mutilators are meant to replace Termis in regards to elite CC they didn't get invul options either, so now what?

How the F*** are we supposed to deal with Turtle Hammernator armies now?

 

Why the hell would I pay points to give my Berzerkers the Icon of Wrath. THEY ALREADY HAVE FURIOUS CHARGE! Why is this even an option? LAZY !

Having to PAY POINTS FOR CHAINAXES NOW? [ Are you F***ING KIDDING ME?] These come in the damn box and used to be just CCW's.

 

FFX,

Terminator armor comes with a 5++, listed in the armory.

Mutilators/Obliterators have the Deamon USR, which gives a 5++.

For Berzerkers, Icon of Wrath give a reroll on the charge distance and +1 combat resolution. You also get it for cheaper than regular CSM.

the Chain axes AREN'T regular ccw anymore, so yea, you should pay a little for them, though I think 3pts/model is too much.

 

My issues are mainly with lack of any sort of teleport/deepstrike homer (besides the key) in the army. since you are looking at a 2nd-turn charge at best, the key will go off after the majority of your deep-striking reserves come in.

I do have to agree with several of the complaints mentioned above about certain options not allowed or just not given to units.