Cmdr Shepard Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Greetings Chaos followers, What's your opinion on the new Ahriman? Is he a useful HQ even if we don't plan to field 1K Sons as troops? Personally I find his pyschic potential quite interesting ( Mastery 4 and the ability to use 3 witchfire powers per turn) but I'd like to know what do you think about him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah Mk.231 Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 It would be more useful if he had a psychic hood (with the shift into the BRB I thought they might be becoming more widespread) to allow him to project a decent little bubble of psychic denial. His staff also got a bit of a nerf since he can't use the same power multiple times anymore, so you actually need to roll up three seperate witchfire powers for it to be useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feste Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Considering 3 of the Tzeentch powers are Witchfire, I don't think he'll have too many problems getting hold of 2 Witchfires and if you really want a Psychic battering ram then he can take the other two on Pyromancy. You'll be pretty much guaranteed that he'll be shooting loads. That said, I rate the Tzeentch powers quite a bit. I like him a lot. Is he now the highest level Psyker in the game? 4+ Deny the Witch, and everyone else only getting a 5+ at best is pretty good. Master of Deception is a very nice trait, and good for any army. And with 3 wounds and WS and I 5 he's not bad in assault Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted October 6, 2012 Author Share Posted October 6, 2012 Considering 3 of the Tzeentch powers are Witchfire, I don't think he'll have too many problems getting hold of 2 Witchfires and if you really want a Psychic battering ram then he can take the other two on Pyromancy. You'll be pretty much guaranteed that he'll be shooting loads. That said, I rate the Tzeentch powers quite a bit. I like him a lot. Is he now the highest level Psyker in the game? 4+ Deny the Witch, and everyone else only getting a 5+ at best is pretty good. Master of Deception is a very nice trait, and good for any army. And with 3 wounds and WS and I 5 he's not bad in assault Especially if he rolls powers from Biomancy and get +D3 to T and S in addition to Eternal Warrior; + D3 to I and attacks. He is currently the highest level Pyker in the game. Only problem are thise SW rune weapons and Eldar runes but those affect any psyker :) What do you think is the best role for Ahriman? "The Psychic battering ram" or buff/debuff powers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 He has eternal warrior? Finally :) I am thinking of taking him in bigger games with my Thousand sons, with games over 2000pts having up to three other sorcerers! Plus infiltrating Thousand son and terminator units makes me cackle :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feste Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Especially if he rolls powers from Biomancy and get +D3 to T and S in addition to Eternal Warrior; + D3 to I and attacks.He is currently the highest level Pyker in the game. Only problem are thise SW rune weapons and Eldar runes but those affect any psyker :( What do you think is the best role for Ahriman? "The Psychic battering ram" or buff/debuff powers? I think that the most reliable role is, as you say, to give him as much of the Biomancy list as possible and watch him beat everyone's face in, especially with Enfeeble in there. Telepathy would be a fun one, and you'd have a really good chance of getting the two top powers. I think someone with a whole load more experience than me could be probably see the flaws in it. Personally though, my favourite would be to give him two Tzeentch powers and two Pyromancy powers and watch him explode the board. Doubt it's very good, but it's certainly fun. Would be interesting if he has to use them all on the same target though, could be a bit annoying if so. Edited for attribution, and to answer Ridcully. Edited again: Ninja'd! He has eternal warrior? Finally :) I am thinking of taking him in bigger games with my Thousand sons, with games over 2000pts having up to three other sorcerers! Plus infiltrating Thousand son and terminator units makes me cackle :) No, but a Biomancy power can give it to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted October 6, 2012 Author Share Posted October 6, 2012 He has eternal warrior? Finally :) I am thinking of taking him in bigger games with my Thousand sons, with games over 2000pts having up to three other sorcerers! Plus infiltrating Thousand son and terminator units makes me cackle :) If you roll power 1 on the Biomancy table. It grants +D3 to T and S plus Eternal Warrior. EDIT: Especially if he rolls powers from Biomancy and get +D3 to T and S in addition to Eternal Warrior; + D3 to I and attacks.He is currently the highest level Pyker in the game. Only problem are thise SW rune weapons and Eldar runes but those affect any psyker :( What do you think is the best role for Ahriman? "The Psychic battering ram" or buff/debuff powers? I think that the most reliable role is to give him as much of the Biomancy list as possible and watch him beat everyone's face in, especially with Enfeeble in there. Telepathy would be a fun one, and you'd have a really good chance of getting the two top powers. I think someone with a whole load more experience than me could be probably see the flaws in it. Personally though, my favourite would be to give him two Tzeentch powers and two Pyromancy powers and watch him explode the board. Doubt it's very good, but it's certainly fun. Would be interesting if he has to use them all on the same target though, could be a bit annoying if so. The witchfire powers should be used on the same target as if they are weapons but the others power have not such limitation. Piromancy has a very short range, Biomancy sounds very promising while Telepathy fun indeed. Second EDIT: Just out of curiosity. Do you know why the models comes with a 40mm base if he wears Power Armour? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Because he is just that awesome. Also it is to do with his cape :P An idea I had was to take a power from each lore he can take, they all have nice spells, and all have witch fire primaris powers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 I'm looking forward to trying him, hopefully he works out well or else I'll have to use the figure as a generic sorcerer. Not sure what else yet, a biomancy demon prince seems awesome too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardune Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 AP4 Staff and auto-issue/accept challenges means melee is always going to be his weakness (even with Biomancy). I mean 4 psychic powers is good but for 230 points I want someone that isn't scared by a powerfist sergeant. For the exact same cost, you can get 2x ML2 sorc's which still have 4 total powers and can be armed however you like on top of that. If it weren't for the melee thing, he'd be a great choice but a "Champion of Chaos" needs to be worth his points in melee and Ahriman simply isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narse Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 I don't like him... he will probably kill himself with his powers due to lack of a spell familiar. I don't like him taking biomancy because his weapon is AP4 no matter what you do..... I guess his role would be a ranged nuker, but i'm unsure of what squad to hide him in... oblit's maybe? Most of the powers he can choose from for ranged attack are 24" tops, but you don't want to get him in charge range ~14" of the enemy, and you don't want to shoot at the same thing a thousand sons squad would shoot at.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Put him in a rubric squad, and they should be able to handle anything, plus the aspiring sorcerer can take the initail challenges. In games over 2000pts, I'm thinking Ahriman and three other sorcerers, each specialising in a different lore to represent three of the cults, for a sort of psychic orchestra, shame our aspiring sorcerers are stuck with the pants half lore of tzeentch though, otherwise they would be worth it/ fun to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted October 7, 2012 Author Share Posted October 7, 2012 AP4 Staff and auto-issue/accept challenges means melee is always going to be his weakness (even with Biomancy). I mean 4 psychic powers is good but for 230 points I want someone that isn't scared by a powerfist sergeant. For the exact same cost, you can get 2x ML2 sorc's which still have 4 total powers and can be armed however you like on top of that. If it weren't for the melee thing, he'd be a great choice but a "Champion of Chaos" needs to be worth his points in melee and Ahriman simply isn't. You have your Anspiring Champions for the auto-challanges. Beside I think his role is not to kill the enemy in melee but to provide psychic support. The two Level 2 Sorcerers may have access to the same number of powers but: 1. They must take at least one power from the chaos lore related to their mark. So if you are not interested in them you are forced to have 2 unwanted powers while Ahriman gives you only one of them 2. Yout rwo sorcerers will be able to provide 1 witchfire each per turn, namely 2 withfires per turn. Ahriman gives you 3 3. You may roll the same power for both of the Sorcerers if you give them the same lore. It may not be necessarily bad but it's a thing we have to consider :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethrion Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 I'll always take Ahriman out of principle. But with that said as a HQ while there are certainly better choices out there he isn't too bad as a ranged character. His biggest plus point of course is his warlord trait. Obviously you can hope to roll that with any standard lord or sorcerer choice you take but Ahriman does guarantee it, which is vital if your army build/tactic revolves around infiltrating units. Warp talons, raptors and maybe rubricae all could do some serious first turn damage if you pull off a great infiltrate move. You don't really ever want him in close combat as that isn't his thing. Ranged sniping, blessing others or cursing the enemy to make them more vulnerable to attacks from elsewhere is what he does. For example casting invisibility on himself and his unit of rubric marines before they get charged. Doombolt isn't too bad from the lore of Tzeentch either really as it has a reach of 24" (including the movement of Ahriman) and has the beam characteristic meaning it will just pass through vehicles and keep going. Line it up nicely and watch them exploding 2D6 could be hilarious fun against guard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Warp talons, raptors and maybe rubricae all could do some serious first turn damage if you pull off a great infiltrate move. Remember that you cannot charge on the first player turn if you infiltrate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hlakir Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 If he get's Breath of Chaos or Doombolt, consider taking Smite and Psychic Shriek as well. That's a lot of shooting with no armour saves (short ranged though). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Put him with a unit of terminators perhaps? With that kind of fire power, even a 5 man terminator squad plus Ahriman should be able to deal with pretty much anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethrion Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Warp talons, raptors and maybe rubricae all could do some serious first turn damage if you pull off a great infiltrate move. Remember that you cannot charge on the first player turn if you infiltrate. Oh yeah, forgot about that. Hmm...well maybe infiltrate units that can shoot first turn and do some damage that way instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyl- Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Raptors can do a lot in turn 1 infiltrated without needing mele. 18" out -> 12" jump movement -> hello, we has meltagun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Raptors can do a lot in turn 1 infiltrated without needing mele. 18" out -> 12" jump movement -> hello, we has meltagun Good point concerning the raptors. Remember that champ can also take a combi! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facmanpob Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 I'm new to Chaos (although playing Dark Angels some would argue that I'm not new to being a traitor! :) ), and I can't quite get my head round the fact that Ahriman only has 3+/4++ saving throws and no EW or spell familiar, but for about 40 points less I can build a Sorcerer with 2+/3++, ML3 and a spell familiar. The Sorcerer build just seems more survivable to me........or am I missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethrion Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 I'm new to Chaos (although playing Dark Angels some would argue that I'm not new to being a traitor! :blink: ), and I can't quite get my head round the fact that Ahriman only has 3+/4++ saving throws and no EW or spell familiar, but for about 40 points less I can build a Sorcerer with 2+/3++, ML3 and a spell familiar. The Sorcerer build just seems more survivable to me........or am I missing something? No you're right. They dropped the ball with Ahriman again... B) guess we'll have to wait for the NEXT chaos codex haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 I'm new to Chaos (although playing Dark Angels some would argue that I'm not new to being a traitor! ;) ), and I can't quite get my head round the fact that Ahriman only has 3+/4++ saving throws and no EW or spell familiar, but for about 40 points less I can build a Sorcerer with 2+/3++, ML3 and a spell familiar. The Sorcerer build just seems more survivable to me........or am I missing something? No you're right. They dropped the ball with Ahriman again... :lol: guess we'll have to wait for the NEXT chaos codex haha And the one after that.... Though to be fair, stick with a squad of terminators with the Mark of Tzeentch, and pray you don't go against an opponent who take the dammed eldar farseer and pathfinder allies, and watch everything short of Hammernators melt at his touch. I also think the set Warlord trait is usefull, you always know you are going to get it, rather then soul blaze on you close combat attacks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facmanpob Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 I'm new to Chaos (although playing Dark Angels some would argue that I'm not new to being a traitor! ;) ), and I can't quite get my head round the fact that Ahriman only has 3+/4++ saving throws and no EW or spell familiar, but for about 40 points less I can build a Sorcerer with 2+/3++, ML3 and a spell familiar. The Sorcerer build just seems more survivable to me........or am I missing something? No you're right. They dropped the ball with Ahriman again... ;) guess we'll have to wait for the NEXT chaos codex haha And the one after that.... Though to be fair, stick with a squad of terminators with the Mark of Tzeentch, and pray you don't go against an opponent who take the dammed eldar farseer and pathfinder allies, and watch everything short of Hammernators melt at his touch. I also think the set Warlord trait is usefull, you always know you are going to get it, rather then soul blaze on you close combat attacks... I've been humming and hawing about how to paintup my Dark Vengeance minis, and then which direction to expand them into a fully fledged army. My 3 "favourites" are 1K Sons, Alpha Legion and Word Bearers. Now the Word Bearers fit the models in DV best out of those 3 I think, but I'm fed up with painting red so they're out! This leaves me with 1K Sons and Alpha.........I've been looking at 3 different HQ variations... Option 1 - Ahriman + Dark Apostle Option 2 - 1K Sons Sorcerer + Dark Apostle Option 3 - Huron + 1K Sons Sorcerer Option 1 & 3 give the Master of Deception rule which would allow for infiltration (fluffy for Alpha Legion), while the Dark Apostle will bolster up the horde of cultists who will be loyalists 'turned' by the Alpha Legion. Huron will play the role of an Alpha Lord (I'm Alpharius. No, I'm Alpharius! I'm Alpharius and so is my wife!). Option 2 and 3 are broadly speaking the same cost at around 300 points, but Option 1 is more like 370! I'm struggling to justify the expense of Ahriman over one of the other options! Any advice? :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verythrax Draconis Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 I've been humming and hawing about how to paintup my Dark Vengeance minis, and then which direction to expand them into a fully fledged army. My 3 "favourites" are 1K Sons, Alpha Legion and Word Bearers. Now the Word Bearers fit the models in DV best out of those 3 I think, but I'm fed up with painting red so they're out! This leaves me with 1K Sons and Alpha.........I've been looking at 3 different HQ variations... Option 1 - Ahriman + Dark Apostle Option 2 - 1K Sons Sorcerer + Dark Apostle Option 3 - Huron + 1K Sons Sorcerer Option 1 & 3 give the Master of Deception rule which would allow for infiltration (fluffy for Alpha Legion), while the Dark Apostle will bolster up the horde of cultists who will be loyalists 'turned' by the Alpha Legion. Huron will play the role of an Alpha Lord (I'm Alpharius. No, I'm Alpharius! I'm Alpharius and so is my wife!). Option 2 and 3 are broadly speaking the same cost at around 300 points, but Option 1 is more like 370! I'm struggling to justify the expense of Ahriman over one of the other options! Any advice? :) Just to point out, seems like it's a consensus that the DA doesn't worth the points as well. Maybe a Chaos Lord instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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