Dallas Drake Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Abaddon is a real beast in this new codex & I was wondering; 1) How people would run him? 2) What good set-ups of Chosen as Troops they can see? Personally I plan to run Abaddon (using Zukor model) in a Land Raider with a cheap 4 man MoT Terminator body guard squad. Then take 2 x 10 Chosen with a few power axes & claws & MoK/VoTLW in Rhinos. Thoughts & ideas please ladies & gents :D Dallas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Well I'm still looking for the inspiration for such army. :teehee: I mentioned my desire to build an list around Abaddon or Abaddon+Chosen in another topic so I'll look at this one to see if I can finally find the inspiration :tu: I think you could benefit from a couple of Cultists mobs just to increase the models count and use them as shield or whatever role the battlefiend requires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feste Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 It's probably redundant, but it's might be worth mentioning that those Chosen squads are going to be very, very expensive. You'll could easily be looking at over 300pts each. I'm not sure what else you'd be running but personally my reaction to that would be to shoot the Rhinos and then let the rest of my army deal with Abaddon. Preferably by shooting him, but he'll go down eventually in CC. I'd even be tempted to throw as many sergeants and characters as I can at him while his terminators get butchered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 It's probably redundant, but it's might be worth mentioning that those Chosen squads are going to be very, very expensive. You'll could easily be looking at over 300pts each. I'm not sure what else you'd be running but personally my reaction to that would be to shoot the Rhinos and then let the rest of my army deal with Abaddon. Preferably by shooting him, but he'll go down eventually in CC. I'd even be tempted to throw as many sergeants and characters as I can at him while his terminators get butchered. So what's you suggestion on using Abaddon? What units would you put in an "Abaddon army"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feste Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Sorry if I wasn't being helpful, just thought to give my gut reaction. I'm currently putting together some Chosen squads and noticed that they're expensive so thought that I'd mention it. Abaddon isn't one I've thought much about I'm afraid. My initial thought is that if you're running Chosen as troops, maybe I'd try to keep them shooty to provide a good mid-range base, they can be a bit cheaper that way. I like MoK on them, weirdly as much for Counter Attack as for Rage. As you you say, you'll need Cultists to be deckchairs out back. Sorry that I can't be more help, I'm still struggling with list building for this one myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Sorry if I wasn't being helpful, just thought to give my gut reaction. I'm currently putting together some Chosen squads and noticed that they're expensive so thought that I'd mention it. Abaddon isn't one I've thought much about I'm afraid. My initial thought is that if you're running Chosen as troops, maybe I'd try to keep them shooty to provide a good mid-range base, they can be a bit cheaper that way. I like MoK on them, weirdly as much for Counter Attack as for Rage. As you you say, you'll need Cultists to be deckchairs out back. Sorry that I can't be more help, I'm still struggling with list building for this one myself. And what about Abaddon without chosen? I too believe chosen tend to be expensive. Even Raptors are not cheap but with less then 250 pts you have a fast moving supporting unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkApostle Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Abaddon 3x Terminators with 3x Combi-plasma 5 Chosen + Champion 4x Plasmaguns Rhino 5 Chosen + Champion 4x Plasmaguns Rhino 5 Chosen + Champion 4x Plasmaguns Rhino 5 Chosen + Champion 4x Plasmaguns Rhino 5 Chosen + Champion 4x Meltaguns Rhino 5 Chosen + Champion 4x Meltaguns Rhino 5 Havocs + Champion 2x Autocannons 2x Missle-launchers with Skyfire 5 Havocs + Champion 2x Autocannons 2x Missle-launchers with Skyfire 5 Havocs + Champion 2x Autocannons 2x Missle-launchers with Skyfire 1987 points total That's ALOT of special weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Abaddon 3x Terminators with 3x Combi-plasma 5 Chosen + Champion 4x Plasmaguns Rhino 5 Chosen + Champion 4x Plasmaguns Rhino 5 Chosen + Champion 4x Plasmaguns Rhino 5 Chosen + Champion 4x Plasmaguns Rhino 5 Chosen + Champion 4x Meltaguns Rhino 5 Chosen + Champion 4x Meltaguns Rhino 5 Havocs + Champion 2x Autocannons 2x Missle-launchers with Skyfire 5 Havocs + Champion 2x Autocannons 2x Missle-launchers with Skyfire 5 Havocs + Champion 2x Autocannons 2x Missle-launchers with Skyfire 1987 points total That's ALOT of special weapons. Liking it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Abaddon 3x Terminators with 3x Combi-plasma 5 Chosen + Champion 4x Plasmaguns Rhino 5 Chosen + Champion 4x Plasmaguns Rhino 5 Chosen + Champion 4x Plasmaguns Rhino 5 Chosen + Champion 4x Plasmaguns Rhino 5 Chosen + Champion 4x Meltaguns Rhino 5 Chosen + Champion 4x Meltaguns Rhino 5 Havocs + Champion 2x Autocannons 2x Missle-launchers with Skyfire 5 Havocs + Champion 2x Autocannons 2x Missle-launchers with Skyfire 5 Havocs + Champion 2x Autocannons 2x Missle-launchers with Skyfire 1987 points total That's ALOT of special weapons. Aren't 3 TDA low on survivability? You should lose a TDA every 6 wounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkApostle Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Termicite / points filler. I suppose you can always drop them and get Havoc Launchers / some Extra Armor on the Rhinos for some extra anti horde / extra survivability. I only threw it together on a spur to show what's possible. TDA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkApostle Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 I just don't get why everyones suddenly hung up on them absolutely needing to be geared for close combat. They're still perfectly well fitted for a 4 or 5 special weapons drive-by crew in a Rhino. Just like Havocs used to be used last codex. TDA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Abaddon 3x Terminators with 3x Combi-plasma 5 Chosen + Champion 4x Plasmaguns Rhino 5 Chosen + Champion 4x Plasmaguns Rhino 5 Chosen + Champion 4x Plasmaguns Rhino 5 Chosen + Champion 4x Plasmaguns Rhino 5 Chosen + Champion 4x Meltaguns Rhino 5 Chosen + Champion 4x Meltaguns Rhino 5 Havocs + Champion 2x Autocannons 2x Missle-launchers with Skyfire 5 Havocs + Champion 2x Autocannons 2x Missle-launchers with Skyfire 5 Havocs + Champion 2x Autocannons 2x Missle-launchers with Skyfire 1987 points total That's ALOT of special weapons. Looks a bit spammed and without character (nothing on the champs and no boons, no anything), LOL! Seriously though, I think that list could be really painful to play against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loku Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 What about the fluff? Abaddon's Black Legion have the best of the best, so... where are the berserkers and the plague marines? Termicide units are fine but Abaddon needs a guard so a unit of 5 or more termis is better for him! Chosen are expensive but they work is really good! So 2 units minimun, I think in units de 3 / 2 Plasma Guns / Meltagun or vice... jejeje and Abaddon fits well in list over 2000 pts (2500 pts!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexington Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 I just don't get why everyones suddenly hung up on them absolutely needing to be geared for close combat. They're still perfectly well fitted for a 4 or 5 special weapons drive-by crew in a Rhino. Just like Havocs used to be used last codex. I think it's because Havocs are still well-suited for that, an cost a good deal less. Tho I suppose they're also useful in other roles as well now, so having something in the Troops section take on that task could be worthwhile. Still, you're paying a lot for that extra attack and CCW, neither of which will see much use if the guys are kitted as short-range suicide squads. Personally, I'm looking at the option of five power mauls, with a melta or plasma gun thrown in for good measure, all covered in the Mark of Khorne. Delivery's an issue, but that can put out a lot of hurt on anything that gets in their way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Chosen Spam seems good enough to me! I like the shields, I like the grittyness. Go play it and win a tourny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 I think it comes down to Specializing or Generalizing. Generalizing typically isn't too good (taking a mixture of power weapons and special weapons), because if you're doing one thing, you're not doing the other. Chosen with close combat weapons get stupidly expensive for what their statline (a unit of aspiring champions-still 1 wound, majority 4 3+ save guys) compared to terminators-and they still have the burden of getting into close combat, which requires Luck or excessive support elements within your army to "make it happen" and it's generally a better idea to use Terminators who already start with Power Weapons for that particular task. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimerical Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Abaddon has three things going for him. I am going to rank them in order of how useful I think they are: 1. Guaranteed 12" bubble of Preferred Enemy (Space Marines) 2. Owns in close combat. 3. Makes chosen troops. The main disadvantage he has is being in terminator armour, which presents mobility issues. So you want to maximise his strengths without mitigating the inherent strengths of the codex. Option 1 (fast/mech): Land Raider (dozer blade) Abaddon (inside LR) 5 CSMs with flamer gun (inside LR) 3 x 8 x Chosen with 4-5 Plasma Guns + Rhinos (dozer blades and combi-meltas) 2 x 5 Chosen with Lascannon (objective campers) 2 x Forgefiends or 2 x Obliterator squads (yes, this is would be the one time you can pass on the autocannon Havocs) That's about 2000 points give or take a few options. Keep everything in the preferred enemy bubble when you versus space marines (i.e. every other game). If you get the first turn (or the first one without nightfighting), you've got, say, 2 x 8 S8 shots re-rolling 1s, 2 TL Lascannons, 2 x Lascannons re-rolling 1s. From turn 2 onwards, you bring to bear 12 plasma guns, re-rolling 1s (and saving you from gets hot rolls), in addition to the other stuff. Turn 2-3, if you're a little lucky, you can have Aby charging into your enemy unit of choice, bringing to bear his combat prowess. Option 2 (foot list): Aby 35 Cultists (Aby joins them) 4 x 10 Chosen with 4-5 Plasma Guns + Combi-Melta 5 Chosen with Lascannon (objective campers) 2 x 3 Bikers with MoN + 2 Melta Guns 2 x Havocs (mostly with autocannons, possibly some lascannons) Cultists + Aby form a moving fearless cover save as the Chosen advance. Bikers kamikaze at units that hurt foot lists. Havocs for long range anti-tank. Anti-flyer defense against SMs is plasma guns re-rolling on 1s. Against other flyers, hope and good denial tactics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkApostle Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 I just don't get why everyones suddenly hung up on them absolutely needing to be geared for close combat. They're still perfectly well fitted for a 4 or 5 special weapons drive-by crew in a Rhino. Just like Havocs used to be used last codex. I think it's because Havocs are still well-suited for that, an cost a good deal less. Tho I suppose they're also useful in other roles as well now, so having something in the Troops section take on that task could be worthwhile. Still, you're paying a lot for that extra attack and CCW, neither of which will see much use if the guys are kitted as short-range suicide squads. Personally, I'm looking at the option of five power mauls, with a melta or plasma gun thrown in for good measure, all covered in the Mark of Khorne. Delivery's an issue, but that can put out a lot of hurt on anything that gets in their way. For a 6 man squad you pay 20 points more for the Chosen version over the Havoc version with the same upgrades. That's a fair cost for them to become scoring IMO. TDA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 the problem with builds like this is that they have a milion and one way to give up first blood and 4 plasma or not this does lose against SW MSU and will have huge problems against necron flyers , because death rays and smaller squad size means they lose the important plasma models faster . Even again IG the list will struggle if it doesnt start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Aby35 Cultists (Aby joins them) That's was the first idea I had about Abaddon. :lol: I'm not convinced by the "chosen spam" yet (I'm still open to change my mind, though) but I think 35 cultists shielding him are a good way to bring him when he can spread the destruction around. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Yeah all the named characters actually like a meat wall around them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Yeah all the named characters actually like a meat wall around them. Every Chaos Lord likes it. Why do you think they send Dark Apostles around the Galaxy to gather cultists? Because everyone needs a mob of expandable servants to vex :yes: when they march toward enemies. They also shouldn't deprive the Lord of the glory coming from killing a worthy prey... that's Chaos, after all B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Yeah all the named characters actually like a meat wall around them. Every Chaos Lord likes it. Why do you think they send Dark Apostles around the Galaxy to gather cultists? Because everyone needs a mob of expandable servants to vex :P when they march toward enemies. They also shouldn't deprive the Lord of the glory coming from killing a worthy prey... that's Chaos, after all :P Problem? http://cheezpictureisunrelated.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/kenh-meatshield.jpg Now something else, since we do get all Primarchs, I actually am willing to field a Heresy eara World Eater Legion with Angron as "count as Angron". But this is a plan for the future, first get my BA done than my gritty CSM update and after that Heresy World Eaters. Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Yeah all the named characters actually like a meat wall around them. Every Chaos Lord likes it. Why do you think they send Dark Apostles around the Galaxy to gather cultists? Because everyone needs a mob of expandable servants to vex :P when they march toward enemies. They also shouldn't deprive the Lord of the glory coming from killing a worthy prey... that's Chaos, after all ;) Problem? Not at all ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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