Cmdr Shepard Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 What size do you suggest for Raptors units? Small units or 10 (or more) men units? Both chioces have their pros and cons. Multiple Small Squads allow us to field a greater number of special weapons (since the special weapons upgrades are on unit's base and not model number related) but they will be more venerable (including the chance to lose those very special weapons) Larger units (about 10 men squads) will give you less special weapons (and one less champion) but they will grant your a greater survivability compared to MSU. Personally I'm thinking about a 10 (max 11/12) men unit. What's your opionion? Thanks for your assistance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feste Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Theoretically I like the idea of a 15-man strong VotLW squad, with nothing else. Practically, I'm finding it hard not to go for an 8-man squad of Slaaneshi marines with an Icon, and VotLW. Edit: Mostly this is because I have problems with seeing a unit and not thinking about ways of getting it to punch stuff. I probably need to work on this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted October 7, 2012 Author Share Posted October 7, 2012 Theoretically I like the idea of a 15-man strong VotLW squad, with nothing else. Practically, I'm finding it hard not to go for an 8-man squad of Slaaneshi marines with an Icon, and VotLW. Edit: Mostly this is because I have problems with seeing a unit and not thinking about ways of getting it to punch stuff. I probably need to work on this... I think Slaaneshi Icon will give them a huge survivability (it has a cost, of course). VotLW is an auto-include. No doubt. With Slaanesh mark they should be able to be quite effective in combat. They bring 3 attacks at I5 in charge. Meltaguns will be a good choice since they not only can threat enemy vehicles (especially tranports of which Raptors can match their speed) but they also have the same range of their bolt pistols and can be fired before charging. 2 S8 AP1 shots may not be game changing but their are still able to instant kill many models. A larger unit will protect those weapons and give them a better chance to counter the effects of the losses they will suffer. Now that you mention it I'm getting a little curious about the 15 men strong Raptor squad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Rapticide could be the new termicide. For exactly the same points cost you get 3 termies with combi-melta, OR 5 raptors with 2 meltaguns. Since melta hit so hard, it could be worth to have another shot next turn, if they survive that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biaz Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 I would run 8-10, with MoK 2 meltas and VotLW. Mainly because I wouldn't limit them to anti-vehicle, but to counter assault and even wiping out weak units in CC. Dn't limit them and they can threaten close to everything. I've never been a fan of suicide units for Space Marines, and especially CSM, I just can't see them doing it, and certainly not consistently. You can suicide cultists all you like though :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Unit of 10 with VOTL, mk of Tzeentch, melta guns, with a champ of some sort? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted October 7, 2012 Author Share Posted October 7, 2012 I would run 8-10, with MoK 2 meltas and VotLW. Mainly because I wouldn't limit them to anti-vehicle, but to counter assault and even wiping out weak units in CC. Dn't limit them and they can threaten close to everything. That's exaclty my plan. I don't want to limit them to anti-vehicle, that's why I thought about the 10-men strong unit with meltas and even champion with some upgrade. I didn't consider MoK, though. But those 10 additional attacks on the charge may be useful. I thought about MoS for the FnP icon but it's quite expensive. Unit of 10 with VOTL, mk of Tzeentch, melta guns, with a champ of some sort? But MoT just gives them a meager 6++ invul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Tzeentch theme, but it's now 6++? Talk about flogging a dead horse, we know GW hates tzeentch already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Tzeentch theme, but it's now 6++? Talk about flogging a dead horse, we know GW hates tzeentch already. what did you expact , it is like that every edition . If with HQ then 8-10 should be used [am not saying it is a good thing to do . bikes are in general superior to jumppacks out of our dex] . small anti tank squads are meh . possible first blood for small squad and terminators at least draw away more plasma shots . IoS is ok for them all other are meh . khorn if someone plays only against stuff with i3 / 5i or higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted October 7, 2012 Author Share Posted October 7, 2012 Tzeentch theme, but it's now 6++? Talk about flogging a dead horse, we know GW hates tzeentch already. Yes, now it's a 6++; no longer a 5++. It also costs as much as the other marks for a very limited usefulness. bikes are in general superior to jumppacks out of our dex I know but I bought 2 Raptors boxes because I like the models (and I also get a good amount of bitzs for conversions) so I'd like to play them. Bikes will be my next purchase for sure. Sadly we have to buy them in boxes of 1. DA has multiple models bikes boxes, chaos not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Eight man teams (with an attached Lord) allows me to get my flamers into place to push for an objective. I used (and will use) my Raptors and Lord as "Door Kickers", they hit something hard, and fast, while the Khorne Beserkers step out of their rhinos and have a smoke before joining the fray. Eight guys (technically 9) made fearless from the lord is just big enough to be effective and small enough to be able to get around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJL Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Lightning claws on champ, 2x flamers, mos, votlw. Expensive but lethal. They make very short work of any meq and hordes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted October 7, 2012 Author Share Posted October 7, 2012 Lightning claws on champ, 2x flamers, mos, votlw. Expensive but lethal. They make very short work of any meq and hordes. Flamers wouldn't deal so much damage to MEQ. Let's say 4 hits per flamer? so 8 S4 hits, 4 wounds, 1 dead MEQ. The same result you have with 2 Meltas but they can threat vehicles as well. If we talk about hordes then Flamers are much better, if are within range, of course :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feste Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Lightning claws on champ, 2x flamers, mos, votlw. Expensive but lethal. They make very short work of any meq and hordes. Flamers wouldn't deal so much damage to MEQ. Let's say 4 hits per flamer? so 8 S4 hits, 4 wounds, 1 dead MEQ. The same result you have with 2 Meltas but they can threat vehicles as well. If we talk about hordes then Flamers are much better, if are within range, of course :P Say that to a Burnaboy wagon... I have wondered about running Khornate Chosen with flamers. No matter if you get the charge or vice-versa they're putting the hurt on thins, it's even relatively cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJL Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Yea. 5 chosen with 5 flamers is about 110 pts. Thatll toasty toast most things. The threat range is much greaters with the flamers against infantry than the meltas. If i get 8 hits i could get 0-8 kills. Melta is 0-2. I have other things to deal with armour ( which is much less frequently taken now) and i have kraks if i have to deal with a tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Wasn't this topic about Raptors? But yes, Chosen are all the goodness, load them up and have a blast (get it :D) Best size for raptors still is quite small imho. You could get a heavy DS army with them and terminators though, so it just depends on what you like to do. My personal preferance is 5, Melti, the support combat. Alternatively Bikers can do this also but have a few less wounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 In smaller games, I'm liking 5 raptors with 2 melta. Bikers may be cheaper, but as I mentioned before I can't stand the models while the new raptors are the hotness. I'm really tempted to run a larger squad as escort for a sorcerer or lord. Probably use MoS to give me plenty of I5 attacks on the charge, coupled with hammer, to frontload my damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted October 7, 2012 Author Share Posted October 7, 2012 Lightning claws on champ, 2x flamers, mos, votlw. Expensive but lethal. They make very short work of any meq and hordes. Flamers wouldn't deal so much damage to MEQ. Let's say 4 hits per flamer? so 8 S4 hits, 4 wounds, 1 dead MEQ. The same result you have with 2 Meltas but they can threat vehicles as well. If we talk about hordes then Flamers are much better, if are within range, of course ;) Say that to a Burnaboy wagon... I was just talking about 2 flamers vs a MEQ squad... In smaller games, I'm liking 5 raptors with 2 melta. Bikers may be cheaper, but as I mentioned before I can't stand the models while the new raptors are the hotness. I'm really tempted to run a larger squad as escort for a sorcerer or lord. Probably use MoS to give me plenty of I5 attacks on the charge, coupled with hammer, to frontload my damage. I was thinking about MoS too. Delivering all of those attacks before most SM models is worth the mark's price even if you don't plan to get the icon for FnP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 I'm going with two minimum squads with a pair of meltas and a power sword for the champ -- just in case. Five men makes for a better deep striking unit than a larger squad since they can fit into tighter spaces, and most of the enemy plasma that would otherwise be gunning for the Raptors will instead of focused on my MoT Terminators that will be Infiltrating (thanks to Huron). As a C:SM player, one of the things that our resident gurus like Captain Idaho and Dark Guard always bring up is the need for a fast melta-carrying unit to provide backfield armor disruption. They have outflanking Land Speeder Storms with Scouts and deep striking Speeders; we get five Raptors with two meltas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradigm Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 While I'd have never done it before now, I'm going for a 15 strong squad. I only wish I could take them in squads of 20. I'm weirdly perhaps, interested in playtesting the plasma pistols. Those combined with a powermaul champ might work out pretty well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 In smaller games, I'm liking 5 raptors with 2 melta. Bikers may be cheaper, but as I mentioned before I can't stand the models while the new raptors are the hotness. top error while making an army . one should not look at models while building one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJL Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 In smaller games, I'm liking 5 raptors with 2 melta. Bikers may be cheaper, but as I mentioned before I can't stand the models while the new raptors are the hotness. top error while making an army . one should not look at models while building one. :D i assume your allowed to look while your cutting them off the sprue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 In smaller games, I'm liking 5 raptors with 2 melta. Bikers may be cheaper, but as I mentioned before I can't stand the models while the new raptors are the hotness. top error while making an army . one should not look at models while building one. It's only an error if you do not realize the pro's and cons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 how models look offten pushs people on the false road of "cool" models. Even if a codex is made out of a lot of cool and at the same time good units[sW for example] one should not do it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 top error while making an army . one should not look at models while building one. Fair and valid point. For myself, the rule of not spending my very limited budget on models I don't like usually trumps it. Luckily, I've found that many of the models I like also function well enough on the table top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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