Tactical Terminators

[terminatorAM]

I have come across a sudden desire to include tactical terminators in my Flesh Tearer list (maybe with a character of some kind in TDA) as inspired by this image:

The thing is, I have only used these guys when I used to play vanilla SM in a mechanized/shooty list for 5th, but I have no idea how to fit them into a BA list for 6th ed. My first thought was a Drop pod/DoA list but that just isn't viable anymore. I currently run a fast assault heavy list with a few vehicles, but the termies would be the only thing in the list not able to move at least 12" a turn so not sure if they would fit in

So those that use these guys: what kind of list do you use your termies in and would they fit in well along with a bunch of jump troops?

[Axira]

If you are using a fast list where everything is moving 12" a turn. Why not use sanguinary guard! I find that they do the terminators work, but better!

Sure you lose those cool assult cannons/hevy flamers/cyclones but instead gain the option of full melta or plasma or mabey CC oriented with axes or lances (if you are allowed).

 

But if you really want to field tac terminators, then I suggest eather getting that drop pod (but you will not be able to fit a character inside) or teleporting them in via scouts or tactical marines!

[Sviox]

Personally I would use terminators (of both kinds) in a list with a big DC and tacticals for scoring. I don't think they fit well in lists with AS/SG but rather work on an elitist force that is hard to destroy without priest support. That being said, I could imagine something like:

-HQ: Terminator librarian

-Elite: 2+ Termy squads (I would prefer tacticals over assaulty here but mixing is ok)

-Troops: Big DC squad (not sure if JP or SR here..)

-Troops: 1+ Tacticals (10 man, with long range weapons like LC/ML, combat squaded) for holding objectives

 

And on top of that, I would add storm raven(s) and land raider crusader(s) depending on points. Also, for bigger games, I would scale the list with Astorath and another DC and perhaps some dreads.

[Morticon]

I feel they work in a shooty/counter list. They're too slow to assist with very fast/aggressive style lists and as a result lack a bit of synergy there.

 

They also work nicely with mixed/hybrid lists since they draw fire from High S, low AP weapons, takin away some attacks from your vehicle.

[DominicJ]

Tactical termies are pretty harsh in combat.....

 

Ten with two asscannons, a hq and a priest in tda spits fire and can throw out nearly thirty power fist attacks on the charge, with rerolled misses.

[Bartali]

I feel they work in a shooty/counter list. They're too slow to assist with very fast/aggressive style lists and as a result lack a bit of synergy there.

 

They also work nicely with mixed/hybrid lists since they draw fire from High S, low AP weapons, takin away some attacks from your vehicle.

 

I dunno... They don't need to be as fast as jumpers as they have 24" range guns.

 

I remember AbusePuppy posted about running ASM/Tactical Terminators in 5th, and if anything I think the combo is better in 6th. Presceince is quite nice on a 10 man squad, and Corbs+Shield Librarian can tank quite nicely. I'm giving the combo a go, but too soon to tell if it works.

[Arryn]

I feel they work in a shooty/counter list. They're too slow to assist with very fast/aggressive style lists and as a result lack a bit of synergy there.

 

They also work nicely with mixed/hybrid lists since they draw fire from High S, low AP weapons, takin away some attacks from your vehicle.

 

I dunno... They don't need to be as fast as jumpers as they have 24" range guns.

 

I remember AbusePuppy posted about running ASM/Tactical Terminators in 5th, and if anything I think the combo is better in 6th. Presceince is quite nice on a 10 man squad, and Corbs+Shield Librarian can tank quite nicely. I'm giving the combo a go, but too soon to tell if it works.

 

Keen to see how u go mate

[Demoulius]

I ran them a few weeks ago in a mostly infantry (and jump infantry) force against Necrons and they were pretty nice :) Mind they were unable to keep up with the jumpers but allowed me to fend off slow moving heavy hitters by tying them up and basicly NOT dying :P as well as a big unit of necron warriors btw. The ability to NOT die is their most prominent weapon tbh (well against NEcrons as the buggers keep coming back :) )

 

2+ save with 5+ FNP is mean.... 5+ and then another 5+ also stops alot, suprisingly... Also an AC or Cyclone missle launcher is some nice firepower. Now that vehicles are more vunerable I see them playing a more prominent role in our armies ^_^

[JAMOB]

If you really want to take them you could always throw in a teleport homer somewhere...

GLHF :)

[terminatorAM]

thanks for all the suggestions

 

I've got a few ideas rolling around in my head right now to make an Amit led Flesh Tearer list, tell me what you think:

 

1) use Belial and deathwing termy allies so they are scoring and able to have a banner like in the artwork (still painted as Flesh Tearers though)

- I don't have the DA dex so I'm not sure what other benefits/drawbacks there would be

 

2) use a list with 3+ drop pods (DC, DC dread, tacts) to have an alpha strike type list with fast vehicles and jump squads starting on the table to quickly close the gab while the termies deep strike near the middle of the field and litter the field with high priority targets

 

3) use the termies to drop behind the lines of the enemy via DS in a fast list as a distraction even if it's a suicide squad (not my best idea, i just want an excuss to convert and paint some FT terminators)

[Demoulius]

deathwing termies are 15 more expensive then our normal termies (IIRC) but are fearless and can mix and match their weaponry :lol: Theyre stuck at 5 man groups though!

[terminatorAM]

can they deep strike starting on turn 1? I feel like I heard that somewhere too

[Brutis]

Dark Angels allies.

That's how I run terminators in my BA lists.

Scoring, th/ss for free...

Half of your deathwing termies ds in turn one.

[Father Mapple]

I love the Dark Angels allies option to run Terminators with my Blood Angels, since it lets me use those beautiful Space Hulk terminators as is, without needing to take two squads to use certain models. So I can take the TH/SS Space Hulk sergeant as Belial, then the twin LC model as the Deathwing squad SGT, then Assault Cannon, fists and stormbolters, etc, and some of the others to make a mix and matched Deathwing force.

 

I keep it small at Belial and 1 squad with apothecary, which is about low 400s points depending on chainfist/cyclone/assault cannon/heavy flamer, letting me take a near 1500 BA list with a cheap Libby HQ to go with the jump packers and have room to play under 2000 or 1850. I'd rather have the apothecary upgrade for the Deathwing models for 30 points than to use a Sang Priest in Terminator armor for point savings and +1S is not a huge deal for hammers or fists.

 

The jump packers will get them close enough to give Prescience to the terminators turn 2 if the Terminators deep strike down turn 2 instead of turn 1, or if the jump infantry move/run up turn 1.

[CitadelArmyGuy]

The jump packers will get them close enough to give Prescience to the terminators turn 2 if the Terminators deep strike down turn 2 instead of turn 1, or if the jump infantry move/run up turn 1.

I know you know, and you are not alluding to doing it, but to clarify for the community: if the Terminators deep-strike at all then you will not be able to Prescience them until the turn after they arrive (per the Blessings/Maledictions occur at the beginning of the Movement Phase rule).

 

 

Edit: On topic for the OP, I feel paying a 130pt fixed-cost for Belial to use DW Terminators is less optimal than just using BA Terminators. This opinion is directly tied to the way I use Terminators however; I feel that their job is to die-- if they survive a game, I didn't use them aggressively enough. So the 'Scoring Troops' consideration is lower for me than most.

 

Don't get me wrong, the DW Termies can be amazing but are the Lamborghini-version of Termies (minus Paladins). LC-Belial (c'mon use that Initiative 5- he's not EW so he'll refuse ID challenges anyhow) with THSS Termies, Apothecary, CML and Banner (always use the Banner, see the argument for Banner-Sanguinary Guard) weighs in at 430pts. An awesome 430pts, but pretty dang steep. Very Tactically flexible, but potentially a Strategic pigeon-hole.

 

5 Tactical Termies, AC and Terminator Sanguinary Priest weigh in at 315pts. Completely different battlefield role though, less confrontational and more midfield presence. Less tactical flexibility, but perhaps a touch more strategic options available, only because they're 115pts cheaper.

[Polythemus]

The jump packers will get them close enough to give Prescience to the terminators turn 2 if the Terminators deep strike down turn 2 instead of turn 1, or if the jump infantry move/run up turn 1.

I know you know, and you are not alluding to doing it, but to clarify for the community: if the Terminators deep-strike at all then you will not be able to Prescience them until the turn after they arrive (per the Blessings/Maledictions occur at the beginning of the Movement Phase rule).

 

There may actually be some wiggle room here, since i believe it says that blessings must be cast at the beginning of the psykers movement phase. Not 100% on the wording though. Hence as long as you cast it before the psyker moves everythings legal.

[sdavid86]

I find myself using BA terminators as an anchor for my army in 6th. With tactical marines getting better I use them as I premier scoring unit. I put my weak BA ICs, like my librarian and my sanguinary priest, in the terminator squad and use them to dole out buffs to my power armor units while remaining safe. If something makes it to my backfield and assaults my troops I have a strong counter-assault unit.

I did this in 5th but it works better in 6th.

[terminatorAM]

The deathwing terminators are actually sounding pretty good. I'm trying to figure out how best to represent a terminator command squad that would accompany Amit as well as a character to count-as Amit himself. Since BA lack in any TDA character, I think Belial would be the next best thing (modeled chainfists that count as lightning claws), so he wouldn't just be a fixed cost.

 

Making the unit cost effective is important too, but I'm not gonna use this unit in any lower than 2000pnt games.

 

So how would Belial stack up against a BA captain in TDA and lightning claws? He seems kinda cheap for how much he brings to the table. I'm currently between the DW and Belial or the BA termies and a captain.

 

Thanks for all the input, it's got me thinking...

[knife&fork]

I did this in 5th but it works better in 6th.

 

I think it's the other way around. In 5th there was very few ways to snipe out your key models, FnP was better for termies and it was very easy to give the entire unit a 4+ coversave.

 

If you want to scoring terminators, why not look at the grey knight codex?

[DominicJ]

Five with a rec and an asscannon in a mainly tac squad army provides a decent counter assault force that gets involved from turn one.

[CitadelArmyGuy]

So how would Belial stack up against a BA captain in TDA and lightning claws? He seems kinda cheap for how much he brings to the table. I'm currently between the DW and Belial or the BA termies and a captain.

Belial at 130pts comes with 2xLC, WS5, 2+/5++. A Blood Angel Terminator Captain with LC/Chainfist [best combo for flexibility] is WS6 and 2+/4++ for 165pts. All other stats are equal, including number of attacks etc. So for 35pts you get flexibility to use either a LC or a CF, and you get the 4++.

 

Belial is actually really great though because the DW squad comes with 'expendable' Sergeant and also a somewhat expendable Apothecary (compared to a SangPriest) who can absorb challenges. That allows Belial to almost always swing against opposing squads-- making the most of his I5, WS5 and AP3. Belial is good value for fighting against squads and not challenges.

 

But in a raw matchup, the LC/CF BA Captain comes out on top in more situations so he is going to be a lot more tactically flexible. I5 AP3-Shred & I1 Str8 AP2-Armorbane makes him the third best melee character in the BA codex behind Mephiston & Tycho. He just gets no love because 145pts gets a Librarian with Axe and Stormshield, who greatly multiplies all the Terminators around him.

[MadMek83]

So how would Belial stack up against a BA captain in TDA and lightning claws? He seems kinda cheap for how much he brings to the table. I'm currently between the DW and Belial or the BA termies and a captain.

Belial at 130pts comes with 2xLC, WS5, 2+/5++. A Blood Angel Terminator Captain with LC/Chainfist [best combo for flexibility] is WS6 and 2+/4++ for 165pts. All other stats are equal, including number of attacks etc. So for 35pts you get flexibility to use either a LC or a CF, and you get the 4++.

 

Belial is actually really great though because the DW squad comes with 'expendable' Sergeant and also a somewhat expendable Apothecary (compared to a Priest) who can absorb challenges. That allows Belial to almost always swing against opposing squads-- making the most of his I5, WS5 and AP3. Belial is good value for fighting against squads and not challenges.

 

But in a raw matchup, the LC/CF BA Captain comes out on top in more situations so he is going to be a lot more tactically flexible. I5 AP3-Shred & I1 Str8 AP2-Armorbane makes him the third best melee character in the BA codex behind Mephiston & Tycho. He just gets no love because 145pts gets a Librarian with Axe and Stormshield, who greatly multiplies all the Terminators around him.

 

Belial can also change his weapons for free for Hammer + shield or Twin Lightning claws.

[CitadelArmyGuy]

Belial can also change his weapons for free for Hammer + shield or Twin Lightning claws.

Lol no I know, in fact twin-claws is the only setup worth it (and is the one I mentioned above). The SB/Sword is worse than 2xLC for obvious reasons. The THSS wastes his I5, and since he's only WS5 he doesn't want to be fighting IC-challenges anyway. The Sarge and the Apothecary will have THSS and can absorb challenges that require that weapon-set.

[DominicJ]

Is there any reason to take a hammer beyond awesomosity?

[Zeller]

The hammer's complimentary system is a storm shield which makes Belial harder to kill. That is why the hammer is the best choice overall. Personally I wish GW would do something to make the powersword a more competitive alternative to the hammer and shield.