IK Viper Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Ok so this came up in my game saturday, it was sad but I brought my SR in and a quad gun blasted it out of the sky first shot... I had a Furioso on the back, what happens to him? our codex says a S4 hit on the back, but that seams out dated since it is now S 10 against anything inside the Raven, is it S 10 vs front AV or back AV or is it the S4 vs back ... not sure Very disapointing weekend for the Raven :-( played 3 games and in 2 of them it died to the first salvo fired at it . . . (died to an intorcepting quad gun, and 6 auto-cannon shots from snap-firing oblitorators) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262739-exploding-stromraven/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Very disapointing weekend for the Raven :-( played 3 games and in 2 of them it died to the first salvo fired at it . . . (died to an intorcepting quad gun, and 6 auto-cannon shots from snap-firing oblitorators) Youre very unlucky. the Quad gun needs a 6 to pen, then a 6 to explode the raven. I'm also reasonably confident that obliterators cannot take autocannons, so you may have been cheated. Do you mean assault cannons? If the latter, 2 shots gets 2 hits, which then need a 6 to glance you. Not impossible, but very improbable in a single turn. If the autocannons, they would need to roll 3 sixes in a row. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262739-exploding-stromraven/#findComment-3200806 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Admetus Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Might have been termies instead of oblits. Or maybe the new chaos dex gives oblits the option (it did come out on Saturday, after all). Odds are admittedly long, but it can happen. In 5th vs the old monolith, I fired a meltagun at one, hit it on a 6, glanced on a further 6, and then rolled another 6 to wreck it (-2 for glance, +1 for AP1). I then proceeded to do the exact same thing to my opponent's -other- monolith the next turn. On topic, I'd say take the S10 hit if it was destroyed whilst in 'zoom' mode, and the S4 hit if it was in 'hover' mode. I'd also take the S10 one on the back armour for the sake of uniformity. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262739-exploding-stromraven/#findComment-3200836 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 A unit of termies has no way of getting 6 autocannon shots though. On topic, I'd say take the S10 hit if it was destroyed whilst in 'zoom' mode, and the S4 hit if it was in 'hover' mode. I'd also take the S10 one on the back armour for the sake of uniformity. I'd agree with that one, it seems the best way to play it, IMO. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262739-exploding-stromraven/#findComment-3200863 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IK Viper Posted October 8, 2012 Author Share Posted October 8, 2012 new chaos codex gives oblits autocannons... im not retarded and yes, he snap fired with, penned, expoleded, and i failed my jink in both, same thing vs the quad gun, (the quad gun got to shoot at normal BS though) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262739-exploding-stromraven/#findComment-3200988 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sokhar Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 new chaos codex gives oblits autocannons... im not retarded No, it doesn't. Quoting directly from the dex, they can fire: Assault Cannons, Heavy Flamers, Lascannons, Multi-Meltas, Plasma Cannons, Twin-linked Flamers, Twin-linked Meltaguns, or Twin-Linked Plasmaguns. I'll let you reach your own conclusions about what that means for your intellect. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262739-exploding-stromraven/#findComment-3201010 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 new chaos codex gives oblits autocannons... im not retarded May want to check your facts before you get defensive bud, im sure he was just trying to help. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262739-exploding-stromraven/#findComment-3201044 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Res Ipsa Loquitur Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Eh. At the risk of coming across all WAAC, I think you've gimped yourself unnecessarily. Whether it seems outdated or not the only provision given for a Dread being carried by an exploded SR is that the Dread takes a S4 hit in the rear armour. Of course, all that really matters is that you and your opponent were happy with the result. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262739-exploding-stromraven/#findComment-3201062 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IK Viper Posted October 8, 2012 Author Share Posted October 8, 2012 I am sorry about over reacting, I am sure they are obliterators and my opponnent looked at his codex and told me they have Autocannons, not Assault cannons, and I believed him, I just know without a doubt that they are Oblits, not termies b/c they fired all sorts of heavy weapons at me all game... I just like ppl to believe me when I say that I was fighting oblits Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262739-exploding-stromraven/#findComment-3201153 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sokhar Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I just like ppl to believe me when I say that I was fighting oblits They're not disbelieving you, they're letting you know that you got cheated. Oblits get Assault Cannons, not Autocannons. Though honestly aside from range, the Assault Cannon would be better for taking out Storm Ravens in every way, and would have actually gave your opponent more dice to throw at the bird. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262739-exploding-stromraven/#findComment-3201203 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IK Viper Posted October 8, 2012 Author Share Posted October 8, 2012 I just like ppl to believe me when I say that I was fighting oblits They're not disbelieving you, they're letting you know that you got cheated. Oblits get Assault Cannons, not Autocannons. Though honestly aside from range, the Assault Cannon would be better for taking out Storm Ravens in every way, and would have actually gave your opponent more dice to throw at the bird. which is another reason I had so much confidance in his choice, specially since he was within 24 Inches, it paid off for him here but if it were me I would have gone with Assault Cannons or Multi Meltas... I have looked in the FAQ and I could not find a clear answer so I was hoping that if I was overlooking something someone would point it out, but is it really not addressed? I think the S 4 on the back is to weak but honestly the S 10 on the back is a bit rough since it auto pins and is AP 1 i think, seams like the explosion should be less damaging since he is outside the vehicle, like an explosion from a vehicle on the ground. we ended up playing it vs the front AV, and he survived, we scattered the template and I got him out within 3 inches of that, and treated him like he had been DS onto that location, seamed pretty fair compromise, I get my front AV but he gets S 10 AP1 instead of S 4 AP - Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262739-exploding-stromraven/#findComment-3201281 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I have looked in the FAQ and I could not find a clear answer so I was hoping that if I was overlooking something someone would point it out, but is it really not addressed? I think the S 4 on the back is to weak but honestly the S 10 on the back is a bit rough since it auto pins and is AP 1 i think, seams like the explosion should be less damaging since he is outside the vehicle, like an explosion from a vehicle on the ground. I think the Str 10 hit represents not just the explosion but the devastating effects of slamming into the ground at very high speeds after your zooming (i.e. travelling very fast) flyer just got blown up. Think of a guy on a racing motorcycle slamming into a barrier at 100+ miles per hour and flying off his bike. Him hitting the ground is your str 10 hit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262739-exploding-stromraven/#findComment-3201306 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Septicon Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I have been playing it that its a S10 hit on the rear armour so you lose a hull point due to it being a glancing hit. Really unlucky to lose your SR to ground fire though considering the odds. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262739-exploding-stromraven/#findComment-3201452 Share on other sites More sharing options...
vahouth Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Ignore this post... :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262739-exploding-stromraven/#findComment-3201797 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodReavers Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I"d like some clarification on this as well. Another point I want to bring up is what happens when the Storm Raven is wrecked and not the "explodes" result? Also, the dreadnought is considered "embarked" even if RAI it is hanging outside the vehicle. Strength 10 to rear armor seems a bit much, but then again, Strength 10 AP 2 hits to all inside is incredibly bad as well. My first game with a Storm Raven ended in disaster, his Aegis defense line fired and got 3 glancing hits at the end of my movement phase thanks to interceptor. It scattered straight backwards 9 inches and I lost 8 out of the 10 assault squad inside, leaving only 2 guys and a priest. We were not sure what to do with the "wrecked" result against a Dread, but we did the strength 10 vs rear armor which luckily only shook it. From that point on I lost any hope of winning that game, my charge I was setting up next turn faltered, the Defiler the Raven was Supposed to blow up moved up and killed my bikes, and I didn't have enough men on that side of the board to do anything. I know now to fire everything I have at the Aegis during my first turn, its silly how easily that thing swats fliers from the sky. Unfortunately its hard for me to bring that much firepower to bear, especially when it was babysitted by a full Thousand Son's unit behind the defense line. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262739-exploding-stromraven/#findComment-3202299 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitadelArmyGuy Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 All transported units take a Strength 10 hit with no armor saves. There is no AP value to the hit, which is important because the Dread will take a Hit with no modifier to the result roll. Also, I believe the Dread will take both a Str4 hit to rear armor AND a Str10 hit against front armor. The Codex applies the Str4 hit as a Codex-specific additional rule, but does not remove the BRB Str10 hit (There is no conflict between the rules). The BRB does not specify which armor the Str10 hit occurs against, ergo Front Armor (Not a shooting attack nor a melee attack, the only logical conclusion in absence of rule). I do not think you will find an Opponent who will argue against the Str10 Front Armor hit since your also taking the Str4 Rear hit. Fluff-wise, the Str4 hit is from the Exploding Raven and the Str10 hit is from hitting the ground. Also note!!!!, there is no removal of the normal Str4 AP- hit taken on all Passengers as per normal Transport Rules! SO if you use a Raven to transport Death Company and the Raven suffers Explodes! Result, they all will take a Str4 AP- hit AND a Str10 hit with no armor saves! Almost no one plays it this way but it is the Legal RAW way to play. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262739-exploding-stromraven/#findComment-3202518 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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