Nurgle's rot question

[Astorath the Grim]

ok I've tried looking through the brb and the dex and I haven't found the answer to my question so I'll ask you folk here....can nurgle's rot be cast while locked in melee?

[Circus Nurgling]

Yes.

 

[edit] hmm... well it used to be able to. It's a nova attack, so it's treated like a shooting attack according to the brb. Nova is a type of witchfire? If so the answer is a definitive no.

[Seahawk]

Nurgle's Rot is a Nova, and a Nova is a sub-type of Witchfire, and Witchfires are manifested during the Psyker's Shooting Phase instead of firing a weapon.

 

So no, cannot use while in assault.

[Astorath the Grim]

I was afraid of that...seemed like the perfect time to use it too...oh well.

[Serricus]

nova powers can be used by and affect units in close combat.

[Seahawk]

Incorrect. The target can be locked in combat, but the psyker cannot.

 

"The Psyker...cannot be locked in combat..."

 

"A nova power automatically targets and hits all enemy units...regardless of...being locked in combat..."

[Serricus]

I could be wrong, but how i read that is you can use if in combat as well. Last paragraph of witchfire states "if it is one of the following subtypes, use the rules for that subtype". This means it can overide normal targeting, resolving of a witchfire ability.

 

"a nova power automatically targets and hits all enemy units within the psychic powers maximum range, regardless of line of sight, being locked in combat, intervening models/terrain, and so on. Otherwise a nova is treated like a shooting attack..."

 

I see where you are coming from but how it's written could go either way. the shop I go to uses nova as possible locked in combat because of the wording, as well as the prescedent set by original nurgle's rot. Let's hope a FAQ clears this up as if they cannot, nova powers (all having 6" range) would be beyond pointless.

[Circus Nurgling]

The "being locked in combat" refers to the enemy unit, unfortunately. I don't think it's worded poorly enough to warrant a faq.

[Astorath the Grim]

It just seems to me by the way its worded that it was mean to be used in ccombat

[Azekai]

That would certainly make it better, and mechanically more like it was in the past . . . but that if it were meant to be used in cc, they would have stated that you were able to use it in cc.

[Circus Nurgling]

It just seems to me by the way its worded that it was mean to be used in ccombat

 

Well I honestly hope you're correct.

[Plague Dave]

I agree that it can be used in close combat. Let's break it down:

 

Witchfire powers state: "The Psyker must be able to see the target unit, cannot be locked in combat ..."

 

Nova states: "A Nova power automatically targets and hits all enemy units within the psychic power's maximum range, regardless of line of sight, being locked in combat ..."

 

Obviously, in the Witchfire rule, LOS, and their being locked in combat is referring to the psyker. In the Nova rule, I don't see LOS referring to the enemy unit. Why would LOS from an enemy ever matter? The sentence appears to shift objects here, so I'd say 'being locked in combat' is again referring to the psyker, just as it does in the Witchfire rule. The Nova rule is listing its exceptions to the Witchfire rule from 'regardless' onwards.

 

It is a bit of an ambiguous sentence, and an FAQ on it might be nice, actually, but I know I'll play it as useable in melee, since that's how Nurgle's Rot has traditionally worked, as well.

[Serricus]

That is how I understood it to work as well. If LOS refers to psyker, than locked in combat would to. I can see both sides but in combat makes most sense to me. Luckily my playgroup all see it that way so I have no trouble using it that way.

[Xenith]

If you can fire a weapon, you can use a witchfire power.

 

When in combat, you cannot use a gun, ergo you cannot use a nova power.

 

This:

 

"A Nova power automatically targets and hits all enemy units within the psychic power's maximum range, regardless of line of sight, being locked in combat ..."

 

Seems pretty clear cut to me. The wording is talking about enemy units. Once the power is cast, it can hit units in combat. If the psyker is in combat, the power never gets cast, so that wording never gets the chance to take effect.

[Circus Nurgling]

Which effectively makes nurgles rot almost absolutely useless.

[Plague Dave]

If you can fire a weapon, you can use a witchfire power.

 

Witchfire powers are based on their own rules, though, not the shooting rules, so that's irrelevant.

 

Seems pretty clear cut to me. The wording is talking about enemy units. Once the power is cast, it can hit units in combat. If the psyker is in combat, the power never gets cast, so that wording never gets the chance to take effect.

 

Again, I have to ask, why does 'being locked in combat' refer to the enemy unit if 'line of sight' does not, given that line of sight from an enemy unit is never relevant?

[compgeek1602]

Say, I also have a question about Nurgle's Rot and hope Astorath doesn't mind me asking it here...... If a nova power, such as Nurgle's Rot, automatically targets and hits all enemy models within range, then why does it have a shot number profile? Nurgle's Rot says Assault D6+1; does that mean you roll the D6 and add one and that's how many times all models within 6 inches are hit, or is it just that many models within 6 inches are hit? Odd wording, or maybe I'm just crazy.

[Serricus]

It is units not models. If it was models it would be pretty crazy, regardless of if they can be used in or out of combat.

[Seahawk]

It causes D6+1 hits per unit in range.

[compgeek1602]

Thanks Seahawk, that makes way more sense.

[Hellrender]

If you can fire a weapon, you can use a witchfire power.

 

Witchfire powers are based on their own rules, though, not the shooting rules, so that's irrelevant.

 

Seems pretty clear cut to me. The wording is talking about enemy units. Once the power is cast, it can hit units in combat. If the psyker is in combat, the power never gets cast, so that wording never gets the chance to take effect.

 

Again, I have to ask, why does 'being locked in combat' refer to the enemy unit if 'line of sight' does not, given that line of sight from an enemy unit is never relevant?

 

Its actually quite easy.

 

''being locked in combat'' refers to: ''a nova power automaticly targets and hits''. To make it clear, this means the unit you are ''targetting'' with the power.

 

So, nova powers (that you cast) automaticly targets and hits, enemy units in range (of where the power comes from), regardless wether they (referring to the targets) are locked in combat.

 

Cant get clearer than that.

[Circus Nurgling]

Even simpler. Nova is a sub-type of witchfire, and witchfire "counts as firing an assault weapon" "during the firers shooting phase", and furthermore "a nova is treated like a shooting attack", all of which you can't do while being locked in close combat.

 

Sorry.

[Kelanen]

Yes, Nurgles Rot used to be useable in combat, but it's not now. It's really very clear if you don't get tunnel visioned on what it used to do...

[Venemox]

Back to the exceptions list:

 

The Witchfire rule specifically refers to the casting Psyker, not the receiving unit. The excpetions mentions criteria specific to only the casting Psyker immediately before the 'locked in combat' exception, and immediately after.

 

I'm (patiently) awaiting a FAQ on Nova powers. Until then, I plan on giving my opponents the Benefit of the Doubt, and allowing them to cast Nurgle's Rot and other Nova powers from close combat.

[Wardiel]

Again, I have to ask, why does 'being locked in combat' refer to the enemy unit if 'line of sight' does not, given that line of sight from an enemy unit is never relevant?

 

I would really like your opinion on this to be true, but as far as rules wording goes, I don't think it is.

 

It doesn't say anything about line of sight being from the targeted unit, I think it refers to LOS to the enemy unit in question. Look at it as "If your psyker is behind a wall, therefore out of LOS to its target, a nova power can still hit them."

 

The rules sentence doesn't directly give you a new object to shift focus on, so you shouldn't just assume it does.

 

Nonetheless, I'd love to proven wrong on this rule, I do miss the old auto cast each turn Rot from back in the day.