Vanguard Vets

[SamaNagol]

I am determined to take a min 5 man squad to tournament in 1500pts to pick off back field units like Long Fangs/Scouts or vehicles.

 

5 VGV with Packs, 2 Meltabombs and the free Power Sword on the sergeant. 175 pts.

 

I have faith in their usefulness and they are considerably more reliable now with re-rolls on 3+ reserves, D6 scatter vs 2D6 charge range.

 

In bigger games you can go for Sergeant load outs with Glaive Axe and Storm Shield to tank challenges and a 'hidden' Power Fist or Sword to the squad and they become able to tie up more powerful targets.

 

But as it stands I have a lot of faith in the minimum 5 man squad with a couple of Melta Bombs.

 

I would love to hear anyone else's experiences with them in 6th

[Blindhamster]

In bigger games you can go for Sergeant load outs with Glaive Axe and Storm Shield to tank challenges and a 'hidden' Power Fist or Sword to the squad and they become able to tie up more powerful targets.

 

exactly the loadout my new unit is having.

 

previously I had 10, 5 power swords, 1 fist, 4 chainswords. Used them in 5th quite a bit.

due to those models being a bit rubbish i'm in the process of making new ones (see my blog in the wip forum)

 

they'll be:

Sergeant with Axe Encarmine and Storm Shield

1 fist

1 dual lightning claw

1 mace

2 swords

4 chainswords.

 

The idea is that in small games I have options and likely wont run a full unit. If needs be I can run 4 chainswords and have the sergeant using one of the various loadouts, against not MEQ I can add the Mace and Claws first, against MEQ I'd add the swords or fist and the Sergeant loadout.

 

I would rather run 10 more often than not as I prefer to ensure I get the attacks that I need.

[CitadelArmyGuy]

Great feedback found here: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=258325

 

Also, some additional ideas here (but mostly just math and probability): http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=256990

[Chaplain Admetus]

Tested them a few times. They've been good, but not as consistently good as my podding Sternguard (who have game against a greater variety of targets). The best way I've found of using them is somewhere that they have multiple targets - even if you scatter the max distance away from your intended target, there'll still be something for them to launch an attack against. There is something to be said as they're one of the few units in our army that can take hidden fists/axes - the other two being Sanguinary Guard and Death Company (maybe honour guard as well? My dex is downstairs and I'm lazy). But I'd prefer to run them as cheap as possible, trying to keep them sub-200 points if possible, which is enough for packs, some meltabombs, and a special weapon (axe, fist, sword, etc) on something that isn't the sergeant if you so desire. Said unit can drop in, get straight to grips with something nasty, hopefully beat it, and then be a nuisance backfield unit for the rest of the game (or if there's just one or two, they can run and hide for linebreaker shenanigans).

 

Personal favourite target? Plasma cannon longfangs, as they can't snap-fire their heavy weapons at you on the way in, and you tie them up for a good few turns if you don't kill them outright. That, or anything with a marine-killing pie plate. Hate pie plates...

[Zedrenael]

I have seen them used in a Raven Guard style army. They are highly effective if they have a screen to charge in first so that they can deflect the intiail overwatch shots.

[Father Mapple]

I think Chaplain Admetus has the right idea with the multiple targets advice - especially in 6th edition, I can find multiple charge targets with a 2d6 charge range (even if I don't expect over 6" anyways) when I Deep Strike "smartly" and depend on that 1d6" scatter. So I will be more aggressive and deep strike near terrain since we can take armor saves against dangerous terrain, and even right at the 6" distance of the board edge or enemies (when you need to be 7" away to not mishap). This means, hopefully, if I put myself between two targets, I'll have some to charge either way I go.

 

I run 5 Vets. 2 Meltabombs, power fist in the unit, and power sword on the SGT, at 200 points. The two meltabombs on normal guys means I have 3 people who can hit Monstrous Creatures or vehicles, with a total of 2 MB, 3 fist attacks on the charge = any vehicle likely wrecked from Hull Points. 5 S8 Attacks on AV10 = 3 hits, 2.5 glances (Might be higher with 2 dice being auto-glance on AV10 from the MB, and the power fist attacks glancing 83% of the time on a 2+, depending on who misses). The other two using Krak grenades are glancing once 67% of the time. So, they can auto-glance a vehicle to death on the turn they charge if the enemy leaves a vehicle out on their own in a corner or something.

 

But you want those Vets either tied up in combat or in terrain if they win that combat on your own turn. You DON'T want them sitting out unsupported on the enemy's turn.

[SamaNagol]

I run a drop pod list. The thing I want to try is using VGV to multi-charge units and just survive for a turn so that the other units I am bringing down can't get shot at by the units I am tying up.

 

With challenges in 6th ed it is now likely you will have at least 1 model left engaged in the opponents turn.... thus denying their shooting phase. 5-6 VGV can tie up 2 small back field shooty units for 1 turn at least. And then hopefully I go from being on their doorstep to kicking the front door in and rushing inside.

[JamesI]

I have not yet tried Vanguard in 6th. I really want to, and I like the sergeant Glaive/stormshield idea.

 

I'd try to keep them cheap, but I always throw in some meltabombs when I use them since there are times the best target is to drop and kill tanks.

[MadMek83]

VV's still make one of the best unit in BA arsenal to take down enemy firesupports (Devs, Longfangs or Havocs) in BA's own terms: Close Combat. They're still good to hunt enemy firesupport tanks and dreads. But overwtch from regular unit and such often makes Honour Guard in 6th edition more reliable way to deal enemy HQ's and bodyguard units aswell MC's. Albeit few fists, axes and, maces and such with meltabombs would make quite good unit for MC hunting. Especially if you attach Sanguine Priest with them. STR 7 power mace, str 9 powerfist or str 6 power axe is nothing to sneeze and will threat MC's high tiughness units like Plaguemarines that really do not excel in CC.

 

I will go: srgt with Stormshield and Powersword. 2 Power axes and 2 Power Mace with 4x Meltabombs and infernus pistol. Expensive yes but also why we got magnets ;) That is allaround good unit to deal against tanks, marines, eldars, IG and threreat most tyranid MC's and Eldar Wraith-units.

[JamesI]

VV's still make one of the best unit in BA arsenal to take down enemy firesupports (Devs, Longfangs or Havocs) in BA's own terms: Close Combat. They're still good to hunt enemy firesupport tanks and dreads. But overwtch from regular unit and such often makes Honour Guard in 6th edition more reliable way to deal enemy HQ's and bodyguard units aswell MC's. Albeit few fists, axes and, maces and such with meltabombs would make quite good unit for MC hunting. Especially if you attach Sanguine Priest with them. STR 7 power mace, str 9 powerfist or str 6 power axe is nothing to sneeze and will threat MC's high tiughness units like Plaguemarines that really do not excel in CC.

 

I will go: srgt with Stormshield and Powersword. 2 Power axes and 2 Power Mace with 4x Meltabombs and infernus pistol. Expensive yes but also why we got magnets :) That is allaround good unit to deal against tanks, marines, eldars, IG and threreat most tyranid MC's and Eldar Wraith-units.

If you are giving the sergeant a storm shield no reason to take a power sword. Take a lightning claw for the reroll to wound or a glaive for the reroll to hit.

[Blindhamster]

take the glaive as claws look naff with a shield

[MadMek83]

VV's still make one of the best unit in BA arsenal to take down enemy firesupports (Devs, Longfangs or Havocs) in BA's own terms: Close Combat. They're still good to hunt enemy firesupport tanks and dreads. But overwtch from regular unit and such often makes Honour Guard in 6th edition more reliable way to deal enemy HQ's and bodyguard units aswell MC's. Albeit few fists, axes and, maces and such with meltabombs would make quite good unit for MC hunting. Especially if you attach Sanguine Priest with them. STR 7 power mace, str 9 powerfist or str 6 power axe is nothing to sneeze and will threat MC's high tiughness units like Plaguemarines that really do not excel in CC.

 

I will go: srgt with Stormshield and Powersword. 2 Power axes and 2 Power Mace with 4x Meltabombs and infernus pistol. Expensive yes but also why we got magnets :) That is allaround good unit to deal against tanks, marines, eldars, IG and threreat most tyranid MC's and Eldar Wraith-units.

If you are giving the sergeant a storm shield no reason to take a power sword. Take a lightning claw for the reroll to wound or a glaive for the reroll to hit.

 

True, my problem currently is that I am hunting right hand lightning claw or proper glaive hand. So I run him according WYSIWYG and I will get ligthning claw eventually. Probably get few pairs of wolf claws for that matter. Depending on what I find cheapest. Or then I have to make right hand stormshield. Anyway I am with you that glaive and lightning claw are better for free upgrade.

[Erasmus of Baal]

Or then I have to make right hand stormshield. Anyway I am with you that glaive and lightning claw are better for free upgrade.

I've heard that Storm Shield conversions are pretty easy, and I find it hard to imagine that not being the case. If nothing else, layered card stock is a decent way to go. You could even print stuff onto it and attach after painting to save yourself some freehanding.

 

EDIT:

I recall a thread from some months ago where someone using a little bit of plasticard/cardstock/etc. and some Sanguinary Guard wings to make a bunch of Storm Shields that really looked amazing and Blood Angels-appropriate. I don't know whether or not I would be able to find it any time this week, though.

[Brightguy]

Or get the assault termies box. I don't run all 5 with TH/SS but the box comes with five shields. So you've got 2 spare shields there. That's also the reason they're not terribly expensive on a lot of bits sites.