TheDarkOne Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Now before y`all jump in here and say `nothing`.... I`m seriously trying to figure this out... he is an auto buff for another character, rerolling your gift, not bad... he gives better leadership to units within 6 inches... a small bubble, but thats also cool... He gives the unit he is part of fearless, and hatred, as per the zealot rule... thats pretty good too... access to all the ranged weapons, and the artefacts... not bad, but i don`t see giving him an artefact, maybe the torrent flamer if you`re going to be aggressive with him.... and he`s cheap, but only 2 wounds... he cna`t be marked.... he has a 4++ with the sigil... where is he most at home? Where do you want to use him? should he live with fabius bile in a 20 strong unit of khorne marked CSM? or should he hang out midfield with 2 or more cultist units, taking up space and having leadership 10? will you take him? or is he indeed garbage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 he cna`t be marked.... Incorrect sir. #1 place for him is in a mass group of cultists, working like IG's commisars. Since he's basically a chaplain, adding him to a squad of assault troops is an easy way to use him. Toss him with some berserkers maybe, or marked CSMs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urauloth Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 The thing that really bothers me about the apostle is that you can't give him TDA or a jump pack, so he has none of the flexibility of a chaplain. Beseech is a very good rule, but it seems awkward to gear him to excell in challenges, so he isn't going to benefit from it as much as he might. He has a good save (and can potentially get a 3++) but only having 2 wounds makes him pretty fragile even with the invulnerable save, especially since he can't get hold of TDA, so power swords and lightning claws will make mincemeat of him if he doesn't roll his saves well. I want to like him - I'm planning a word bearer warband, so he makes a lot of sense - but I'm struggling to find a great use or gear combo for him. I keep looking at the better stats and broader options of the lord and figuring I should just shoot for a second one of those instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkOne Posted October 9, 2012 Author Share Posted October 9, 2012 Sorry, I guess I missed the mark on that one... :ph34r: He could be good in a challenge, if he's got enough guys behind him... thats the thing about our new book, we have to fight challenges... and we can take big squads... if we can get our champions in with characters on their own, we get a crap-ton of rerolls... easier said than done, but you better believe in any instance, your characters will be fighting those monsterous creatures in challenges, they have to really... so in that case, the 35 man cultist squad serves as 7 rerolls for your champion... pretty tasty... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aothaine Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 #1 place for him is in a mass group of cultists, working like IG's commisars. Dark Apostles are going to be amazing support for your cultists. I wouldn't bring any non-typhus cultists without one. Edit: They can also be used as Fallen Angels. :tu: Edit 2: Ohhh I can't wait to see the look on my LGS Dark Angel player's faces when I bring out a fallen angel leading 90+ cultists! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornywingythingy Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 #1 place for him is in a mass group of cultists, working like IG's commisars. Dark Apostles are going to be amazing support for your cultists. I wouldn't bring any non-typhus cultists without one. Edit: They can also be used as Fallen Angels. :) Edit 2: Ohhh I can't wait to see the look on my LGS Dark Angel player's faces when I bring out a fallen angel leading 90+ cultists! What an amazing idea, I guess I finally have a use for a cypher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Amarel Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 It's also worth pointing out that if he has the Mark of Khorne, the whole unit he is attached to gains Counter-Attack (at Ld 10). With a unit of Cultists split-kitted between Autogun and Autopistol & CCW, that's quite a nasty blob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 yeah the question is what opposing player will let you charge with them at full strenght . as the main question goes . he costs too much . taking him instead of a huron or a lord ,is bad. one is way better at challanges other is at worse just as good supporting a chaos army [which means on avarge he is better] . even at 2k pts with two FoC I fail to see why would anyone want to take him , even the tech marine is better if someone wants to run forgefiends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Amarel Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 yeah the question is what opposing player will let you charge with them at full strenght . In the five or six games I've had of 6th now, I've tried charging with Cultists just once and that was horrible (for me). However, as an objective holder they've proved useful due to numbers and output, and with weapon mixing and Counter-Attack this just makes them better. I agree, however, that it's hard to justify him compared to the other options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 yeah the question is what opposing player will let you charge with them at full strenght . as the main question goes . he costs too much . taking him instead of a huron or a lord ,is bad. one is way better at challanges other is at worse just as good supporting a chaos army [which means on avarge he is better] . even at 2k pts with two FoC I fail to see why would anyone want to take him , even the tech marine is better if someone wants to run forgefiends. I agree with Jeske on this one 100%. They are just to pricey for what they do, if his bubble leadership blankey was larger I might think he has uses but 6" is just to small. You are basically only going to effect the unit he is in and they are already going to be fearless. Poorly designed character, a Lord with a few items costs just as much and is better, same with a mastery level 2 sorcerer and some upgrades, the Warpsmith is better as well. Even in games where I am just playing in a friendly environment I cannot see myself using him, not very useful with his small leadership bubble. I want to throw him in a Cultist squad but 110pts base for giving a :cussbox unit fearless? No thanks. I would rather throw a Sorcerer in a Cultist unit and buff them with some Biomancy goodness. This one is right up there with Possessed in the Codex :woot: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I agree. Bubble should have been 12" like in fantasy generals. Being only 6 is exceptionally limiting, and makes him not worth it in my opinion. I think the Warpsmith is much better though! Especially if your opponent doesn`t have fortifications... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I agree. Bubble should have been 12" like in fantasy generals. Being only 6 is exceptionally limiting, and makes him not worth it in my opinion. I think the Warpsmith is much better though! Especially if your opponent doesn`t have fortifications... Agreed. 12" he could effect two units, the one he is in and another Cultist unit, would have made him much better with just that minor tweek. Also agree with the Warpsmith, he is good sauce for his price. Also fairly touch in CC with his 5 attacks at strength 5, AP2 standing still. Not to mention his other abilities of repairing vehicles, debuffing enemy vehicles, and destroying terrain in opponents deployment zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agerjag Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I see him as a nice way to get hatred Vs. Not-Marines. He comes base with sigil and the reroll can be semi useful preventing spawndom. Hes not that costly considering his kit. The leadership is a bonus that can help keep your bubblewrap units of cultists from fleeing (they should be close enough ;)) Main problem i see is he cannot get TDA for deepstrike and cannot take a bike making him less useful unless your lord unit is slogging :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Hes not that costly considering his kit. his cost is taking away a HQ slot . this means you either take no lord , so have no killer HQ or you dont take a special like huron to buff your army more [at worse huron buffs as many squads as the dark apostol] . the cost js huge . he and the tech priest should both have been elite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agerjag Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I should mention that 2k is standard points where I play and has been for years. 2.5k when ard boyz is coming up (too bad its gone :/ ) So this is assuming 4 HQ slots. While taking another lord vs giving your current one hatred for less points and getting rerolls might be appealing to some. He can still be useful in specific circumstances. I cannot take him as I like bike(and juggernaut of khorne) lords too much though :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urauloth Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Being stuck footslogging in power armour is what really cripples him imo. I'd love to be able to give my terminators hatred of everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gman Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I have a half completed Alpha Legion army, where I converted 40 cultists. I've been out of the 40k scene for about 1.5 years now and with 6th looking forward to get back into it. For me the Dark Apostle seemed like a good addtion to a cultist heavy list, purely on the fluff side. Kind of funny too, because I used to always wonder why their weren't corrupted/fallen chaplains in the chaos codex. Anyway, I'm thinking of picking one up and tossing him into a large cultist unit. One, give them fearless, and hatred, which should make them that much better in CC. My converted models all have the autopistols, so that's about all they are good for. Not to mention, with a large unit, he gets plenty of rerolls, probably saves, to keep those two wounds. Also, for the low cost, I gave him "ichor of blood", just to spread that much more chaos on the enemy, when he does get wounded. Otherwise he is vanilla. I agree though, if he could take TDA, bike, or jump pack, he would do a lot better and be seen in more lists. And I 100% agree that his fear bubble should be 12", other wise you may as well not even make it a bubble, just the unit he is in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urauloth Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I think I'll try running one with MoK, black mace and maybe gift of mutation - stick him in a 'zerk unit to give them hatred, see if he or the 'zerk champ can rip open any characters and score a rerollable boon. Pretty expensive, though. 10pts more than Huron... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I should mention that 2k is standard points where I play and has been for years. 2.5k when ard boyz is coming up (too bad its gone :/ )So this is assuming 4 HQ slots. While taking another lord vs giving your current one hatred for less points and getting rerolls might be appealing to some. He can still be useful in specific circumstances. I cannot take him as I like bike(and juggernaut of khorne) lords too much though :/ would you rather play a lord/sorc/apostol set up or a lord/sorc/huron set up ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aothaine Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Keep in mind that now with allies you can play an army with IG allies so you can just sit back and blow your opponent into dust. Run the apostle with cultists to screen and IG behind the screen with siege, tanks, heavy weapons. This is 6th edition boys and girls... look around at the army(not mono-book) options. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. A wall of cultists protecting your IG with 1-2 FA choices for rapid CC support will work amazingly well. Don't forget that your cultists can take marks. Toss them the MoN and make them a bit harder to wound. Granted, most of you here have much more experience playing the game than I do, but perhaps that is more of a disadvantage.... I am able to look out of the box, able to peer past the days of death stars and "I have to get into melee" or "I never want to get into melee". From what I can tell from reading the rules and my experience 6th ed is going to be played out a lot more like an actual battle field. You will need units supporting each other. Anyway... all I'm trying to get across here is that there is that the Dark Apostle will show himself a better HQ choice in some builds than your average "killy" Lord or Sorcerer. I'd rather have a Dark Apostle bubbling 120 cultists than a lord trying to make up for what the cultists are lacking Note: with the correct placement a DA can bubble four units of Cultists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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