Storm Dragons 3rd Company Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 I disagree very strongly on this point.Predator with 2 Lascannons and 1 Twin-linked Lascannon is 140 points Forgefiend with 2 hades autocannons costs 175 Predator will deal 2.16 hits at Strength 9 AP 2 on average Forgefiend will deal 4 hits at Strength 8 AP 4 on average Vs AV 12 stuff the predator wins cause higher strength, and +1 to the dmg chart Vs 2+ and 3+ armor saves the predator wins cause of the better AP Plus the Predator has front AV13 so it shrugs off alot more hits then the Forgefiend will... The only thing the Predator doesn't do better is have a ++5 save, well that is until you move it behind a ruin then it actually gets a 4++ cover save. For pure anti armor, yes the predator is deffinetly better than the forgefiend. Doesn't get better than 3 lasercannons. But against infantry, the forgefiend is deffinetly better. Even if you give the predator heavy bolters, the forgefiend still has more shots. Yes it's cheaper but I'd prefer the forgefiend. It is also more versatile...with 2 hades autocannons and an ectoplasma cannon, the forgefiend can take on most enemy armor, MC and infantry, while the predator is better at fighting only armor and MCs or infantry. It's also worth noting that when assaulted, Preds are always hit against their rear armor aren't they, and they cannot Overwatch. A Forgefiend fights with its front armor and can Overwatch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262896-viable-way-to-take-pure-tzeentch-with-new-codex/page/2/#findComment-3248011 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 I didn't think walkers could overwatch... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262896-viable-way-to-take-pure-tzeentch-with-new-codex/page/2/#findComment-3248015 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 I didn't think walkers could overwatch... They can, it's in the rulebook under the walker rules somewhere. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262896-viable-way-to-take-pure-tzeentch-with-new-codex/page/2/#findComment-3248020 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Interesting.... on a completely unrelated note I don't suppose a squad of 5 wyches and a squad of 5 incubi can share a raider? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262896-viable-way-to-take-pure-tzeentch-with-new-codex/page/2/#findComment-3248095 Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Sadly, no. You can still only put one squad in a non-superheavy transport regardless of unit size. I believe Combat Squads are an exception, though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262896-viable-way-to-take-pure-tzeentch-with-new-codex/page/2/#findComment-3248204 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 In that case, words shall be had, as a friend of mine ran a 1500list that slaughtered me that had 2 raiders with 5 wyches and 5 incubi in it, and a venom with a loord and incubi....... Also how are people finding thousand sons squads size? I prefer mine bigger just due to less pts spent on Asp. Sorcererers the better, whilst in the army list selection I'm being told to go for multiple small squads like no tomorrow. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262896-viable-way-to-take-pure-tzeentch-with-new-codex/page/2/#findComment-3248532 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 I was thinking of something like 7-8 in each, points start to build up fast with all the things I want, so I'm having problems staying within budget, hehe... But big or small, that would just depend on how you see the sorcerer, is he just there for laughs or can his tzeentchian firepowers actually contribute to the army as a whole if there are more of them? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262896-viable-way-to-take-pure-tzeentch-with-new-codex/page/2/#findComment-3248534 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 In that glorious period between the new addition and the new codex I would have takne as many asp. sorcerers as possible, now I prefere my big squads but I keep getting told in the tactics section that they are not good. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262896-viable-way-to-take-pure-tzeentch-with-new-codex/page/2/#findComment-3248692 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Dragons 3rd Company Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 I was thinking of something like 7-8 in each, points start to build up fast with all the things I want, so I'm having problems staying within budget, hehe... But big or small, that would just depend on how you see the sorcerer, is he just there for laughs or can his tzeentchian firepowers actually contribute to the army as a whole if there are more of them? I would never say he should be just for laughs. You pay for the guy, you need to get as much production out of him as you can. His "big advantage" is his magic, try to find ways to use that. He also has some slightly better ability to deny the witch, doesn't he? I haven't played with the 1K Sons much, but his other big advantage should be a force weapon, if you build him for challenges, he may be able to benefit from mutation - demon princes with MoT aren't too shabby. Looking at all the armies I play (mostly MEQ forces), I don't see that any with psykers who are not independent characters. The fact you can take one as part of a squad ought to be something you can leverage into something more than for laughs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262896-viable-way-to-take-pure-tzeentch-with-new-codex/page/2/#findComment-3248705 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Not when you pay nearly the same as a 2w charecter for a 1w one, and he is stuck with the lore Tzeentch, is more "meh" then "AWESOME!!!" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262896-viable-way-to-take-pure-tzeentch-with-new-codex/page/2/#findComment-3248721 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuggnuggath Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Unfortunately there is not much leverage to be had for squad sorcerers. They have an extremely small set of spells and they only have one wound so they auto-die if they roll perils :P No access to wargear either. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262896-viable-way-to-take-pure-tzeentch-with-new-codex/page/2/#findComment-3248722 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Dragons 3rd Company Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Not when you pay nearly the same as a 2w charecter for a 1w one, and he is stuck with the lore Tzeentch, is more "meh" then "AWESOME!!!" I don't think he will ever be awesome, not with this codex. But he is not just for laughs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/262896-viable-way-to-take-pure-tzeentch-with-new-codex/page/2/#findComment-3248723 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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