The Relictors

[dogfender]

Well I for one am a huge fan of the Relictors. With the new edition out I have begun to take a new interest in creating a Relictors army. Not only have their WD rules gone by the way side but their chapter icon has changed from a grimacing skull profile, to a jawless skull profile.. The problem is which codex and/ or allies to use. Lets look at a list of what makes these guys so B.A.

 

-Use of chaos/ demon artifacts & weapons, using chaos to combat chaos

-Unusual amount of Librarians

-Often supported by radical inquisitors (with demon hosts)

 

With the exception above they follow normal Index Astartes, and depending which fluff you count they may or may not be limited in numbers.

 

Here are my ideas for a 'count as' army codex use:

*Codex Chaos Space Marines: TK sons

Pros:

+ With a Sorcerer lord, making TK sons troop choices, and a sorcerer in each unit

The sorcerers could be counted as 'librarians', which would mean there will be quite a few. Their force weapons could be modeled to be chaos/ demon weapons. To explain their nice save could come from the marines taking chaos relics and armor from chaos and making it their own. Their bolter fire could be explained as them taking chaos guns/ ammo.

+ Will be able to actually take chaos weapons from wargear list.

+ Things like transport and raptors could easily represent the marine counterparts

+ Obliterators could be count as demonhosts

Cons:

- Has hatred space marines, not chaos or demons

 

*Codex Grey Knights

Pros:

+ Hate demons

+ All are equiped with force weapons, which can count as demon weapons

+ Can actually use Inquisitors and Demon Hosts.

 

Cons:

- Vastly different from the normal Space Marine, guns, aegis, etc.

- Everyone with a Chaos weapon, only a select few of the Relictors can use chaos weaponry

- No 'normal' run of the mill marine troop

- Inquisitors aren't that great, and demon hosts are fluffy, but not practial

 

*Codex Space Marine (or insert other codex Marine)

Pros:

+ It is the standard

+ 2 Librarians

+ Hate Chaos

 

*Added Allies

With codex Grey Knights one could take a unit of Terminators with a Terminator lord and represent them as an inner circle of Relictors who are beyond the rest, all geared with force weapons (modeled as chaos weapons).

One could add in an Inquisitor, but as stated above it doesn't seem like a great idea.

 

Right now I am leaning towards TK Sons list and Vanilla Marines with allied GK. Both utilize force weapons modeled as chaos weapons. These are my thoughts on making a Relictor army. If any one has any suggestions please feel free to post your suggestions.

 

Dogfender

Edited October 10, 2012 by dogfender

[Bannus]

In the case of the Relictors, I think you could play it in a lot of different ways since they are portrayed in the fluff with varying levels of 'corruption'.

 

I'd say keep your option open: Play them as pure Codex Space Marines for their early days and with increasing number of CSM allies just before their fall (before being retconned).

[demented]

My Relictors are based around the story of them being attacked by the Grey Knights.

 

My army is very elite heavy and always includes a squad of scouts to represent a small band of survivors that is trying to rebuild. I limit myself on heavier hardware (such as tanks/Dreads).

 

I've recently restarted my army for 6e, and I am including some Imperial Guard / Inquisitor allies to represent an auxiliary force used to make up for lack of main fighting strength.

My preliminary idea behind this would be a Radical Inquisitor and his retinue integrating with the survivors. As such I am painting the Imperial Guard the same grey that I will be using for my main Relictors force to tie them all together.

 

Personally I doubt I would stray from the standard Space Marine Codex to represent the Relictors. In my eyes the use of chaos items would be very limited, I just model the chaos items on the higher echelons of the army and use them counts-as or if my opponent agrees we add a few non-standard rules to wargear for fun.

 

The idea of Space Marines + Grey Knights is certainly interesting. The rules around the grey knights open up a lot of opportunities for modelling and they do fit quite well.

Based on when my Relictors were created and the hatred they hold for the Grey Knights I don't think I could bring myself to use Grey Knights and there rules though! :P

 

As always, its your hobby and whatever you like the most should be your choice.

[Race Bannon]

Of the choices available, C:SM provides the wider options to use. The other codecies listed are 'neat' but tend to specialize to do something on the tabletop. That's not meant that C:SM has no specialization, the Codex army's variety means you have more opportunity to customize the play style you enjoy while still having the flexibility to deal with many many other styles. ^_^

[dogfender]

Yeah Vanilla marines surely are the best because they have a lot of options. However it is the differences that make the Relictors what they are. I can pass force weapons as being count as chaos/ demon weapons, but things like relic blades or power weapons don't really do them justice. Perhaps the new DA book will have some new goodies that will lend it self to a better 'count as' army, though I think they are more chaplain heavy. It is a shame that the odd rule set the Relictors have been given may not be legal anymore. I know some wargear and units can make or break the game. But if one were to use the same special war gear and replace the only inquisitor and demon hosts with the new ones, they would still be far from broken, just marines that could take some other options that may not actually make a difference.

 

so it would seem the options are to take normal marines and make relic blades and force weapons count as chaos things. Or take TKsons to load out on a sorcerer 'count as librarians' to make them more thematic and the marines falling more to chaos.

[Torva Minoris]

I always thought using Vanilla marines was the way to go, perhaps using one of the special characters such as lysander for "counts as" purposes and saying his S10 hammer is a daemon weapon. with the new allies table you could also include some Grey Knight units for fluff, like a radical inquisitor using a daemon blade.

[Lord Ragnarok]

As stated you can take Relictors several ways. For me, mine are based during the time right before the 13th Crusade. I've added my own home grown fluff with them allying with SW's to stop a Red Corsair lead/sponsored daemon incursion using a captured Wolf Lord and Relictor Chief Librarian as sacrifices.

 

I'm keeping them as close to their IA article as possible.

 

-They adhere to the Codex except for the Conclave

-The Conclave are reserved to command squads, honor guard and all IC's. Only these units will have Daemon weapons. Power weapons, fists, etc, plasma guns, will be modeled as daemonic weapons/artifacts.

-I plan on revamping my list to add at least one Libby.

 

I've also considered using the GK to count as Relictors for the marines. Instead of psykers, the units would be primary comprised of daemonic weapon/artifact wielders. I created some fluff where the Relictors share/trade their man power for protection, collaboration and artifacts with the Radical Inquisitor.

 

This may come down to just a personal choice thing as there are many avenues.

[dogfender]

I totally forgot that with this new edition 40k went back in time, for some reason. So right now the relictors should be sitting at Angrons' monolith. So technically they haven't been blasted away by the GK (if you choose to accept that), and they still have some demon weps. While it is never said during or after the GK attack if the chapter master survived, but as of right now with the 40k time line, hes alive and well =)

 

I think until DA codex is released Ill hold off on trying to compile units or lists and just make some unique characters to fit in with whatever army I choose.

[heretic??ME??]

Roll on codex Dark Angels asap. I just hope they get Libby Dreads, then I shall be happy. If the new inner circle thing is going on then the conclave should be good to go, I hope. And lets face it we are half Lion, half Smurf anyway. Roarrrr!!!

[dogfender]

Those are exactly my thoughts. Well, I don't care for a librarian dread, or deathwing. I am really just hoping inner circle are in and could be a good candidate for the conclave. I am sure they will be something akin to the BA honor guard.

[The Emperor's Champion]

Actually, the fluff was at the very very end of 999.M41 back in 3rd edition

Then it got rewound back to BEFORE the 13th Black Crusade in 4th edition

Then it progressed very slightly back up to the opening of the 13th Black Crusade in 5th edition

And now 6th edition has finally managed to mave back into the early part of the 13th Black Crusade

 

Maybe by 7th edition we will finally catch back up to where we were at the end if the Eye Of Terror Campaign in 3rd edition...

 

 

Some Black Library books, on the other hand, are actually set in the "present", which is the "future" according to 6th edition. The Ultramarines, for example, have already moved all the way into 012.M42.

 

The Medusa V Campaign was set in 006.M42, and I think that's the only/last time that GW itself has set the game in the "present" since 3rd edition.

 

 

 

I"m a big Relictors fan, so I'm pretty annoyed that they've got the Chapter's fate yoyo-ing back and forth between Loyalist an Renegade because they're afraid to advance the timeline. Probably the only thing that has stopped me from making a Relictors army all these years...

[Akylas]

I'd suggest building your army mostly from C:SM parts with just enough CSM ones to use either codex. They both really fit the relictors pretty well depending what you're going for.

 

Relictors are a favorite of mine although like the above poster I don't like the rollback for them. Then again, Black Library books are supposedly canon and Atlas Infernal suggest the Relictors become renegade so the original interpretation stands even if it is in advance of the "current" timeline.

[Torva Minoris]

it's hard to get consensus on Relictors fluff. now that we're back to the 13th black crusade has the chapter been mauled by the grey knights for their use of daemon weapons, especially now that the grey knights have a character who uses a daemon weapon and can ally with radical inquisitors using daemonhosts. Are they now renegade or just suspected? Also why was a company of relictors wiped out in M33 when they didn't exist untill M36 (new chaos space marine codex, timeline). Edited October 18, 2012 by Torva Minoris

[Akylas]

Weren't you able to include daemonhosts in armies with Grey Knights under the old codex or am I mistaken?

[Brother Tyler]

Weren't you able to include daemonhosts in armies with Grey Knights under the old codex or am I mistaken?

No, the inclusion of daemonhosts required an inquisitor and rendered that inquisitor a radical, preventing the inclusion of Grey Knights. This was clarified in a Chapter Approved (Chaoticians and Cataclysms). The rule is as follows:

"Inquisitors who are not accompanied by ANY type of Grey Knight Space Marines may be designated Radical (Grey Knights will not fight alongside those who dabble in the Dark Arts). Radical Inquisitors may take Daemonhosts in their allied force and use the artifacts printed below."

All the 3rd edition Relictors rules ever allowed was the inclusion of daemon weapons (both random and specific named items), Chaos icons, and radical inquisitors.

 

The thing that has me (slightly) perturbed about the blurb in the new Chaos Space Marine codex is that it refers to them as the "Relictors" in M33. Previous lore had them created in M36 as part of the Cursed Founding, and they were the Fire Claws (that's just my take on their "Fire Claws" color scheme/badge - not official). The blurb signals a few possibilities, which have already been brought up.

 

Another possibility that hasn't been brought up is the potential for there to have been an older "Relictors" Chapter (not the Fire Claws/Relictors) who were wiped out/excommunicated for collecting Chaos items. Perhaps the memory of that older (hypothesized) Chapter is what led to the Fire Claws being called by that name when their own practice of collecting Chaos items was discovered. This falls into my theory that "Relictors" may be used as a derogatory nickname, the same way "Munson" became an insult in Kingpin. B) It's just a theory and there's no real support for it, but that's how I'm going to accept the information until told otherwise. B)

 

As for how to play them, as the discussion has shown there are a number of ways. My personal rendition will be pre-Third War for Armageddon, shortly after starting down the road to damnation but prior to that becoming known to others. In that, I'm falling back on a pure Codex: Chaos Space Marines usage. If I want to take daemon weapons, I'll either use our homegrown Codex Leveling Project rules or one of the other Space Marine codices. The first option would require permission, of course, and couldn't be used in regular tournaments. In instances where I couldn't use the homegrown rules and wanted to use daemon weapons, I might use Codex: Grey Knights (radical inquisitor with a daemon weapon). Alternately, one of the other Space Marine codices would allow me to use the Chapter-unique weapons/rules combinations (the Sword of the High Marshals, Heavenfall blades, glaives encarmine, and frostblades/sagas representing daemon weapons) and a minimum number of Troops units (kitted out within the parameters of the Codex: Space Marines Tactical squad) to represent the members of the Conclave.

[Xenith]

Use C:SM. The most flexible, and allows the allying of radical inquisitors from the GK codex.

 

Relic blades are already pretty daemonic, Calgar wears the power gloves of a chaos lord....just say whatever weapons they are armed with have been recovered from a chaos marine.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Xenith

[dogfender]

The only issue with using an allied Inquisitor is that you still need to take a troop choice, which there are only GKs to take. As far as I am aware the only way to get henchmen to be troops is with a special character. I am against taking special characters. For now it would seem either the marine or chaos dex would be the way to go. However I am eagerly waiting for the DA codex and hoping for some inner circle goodness. Right now I am going with force and relic blades for count as chaos weapons. I am trying out some various thin glues to bind some chains. Though I am running into the problem of some of the links filling with glue and the chain not being sturdy/ durable enough to be free flowing. Anyone have some suggestions?