Beating Deathwing

[Fionnrua]

Hey guys,

First of all, I'm a longtime painter/relatively new player.

 

I'm looking for some advice/tactics for when I fight my friend's Deathwing.

I've gathered that massed ap2 stuff, pref templates, would help a lot here but I was wondering if any of you have any experience in beating Deathwing and could you share some tips on what kind of list I would need.

I'm guessing my buddy won't be using Deathwing Assault so it'll be the slow, purposeful advance of 30 terminators…

 

For HQ, I believe Tycho with Corbs would be best (in my amateur opinion) stuck with sternguard in a pod? (not too sure about the sternguard or even a pod as it may pander too much to DW's strengths as they'll curb-stomp this as soon as they get a chance).

 

Maybe throw in a few full DC squads to get the charge and initiative to try and take as many out before the waterfall of powerfists descend…

I also fancy a bike squad and an attack bike; plasma & meltagun with a pf and attack bike with mm to try and split his forces somewhat.

 

Been fiddling with the idea of a putting a dread in somewhere…I have a DC dread with talons but I could slip on some blood fists if it was worth it.

Also, a Stormraven or two as a gunship to tear it up might work too...but I haven't used them in a game yet.

What do you think?

Any help would be great ;)

 

Thankee kindly.

[SamaNagol]

Sternguard are wonderful.

 

If he is foot slogging terminators, use your superior mobility to overwhelm one flank of his army then work your way down the line.

[Chaplain Admetus]

Plasma cannons make deathwing cry. As a bonus, you can get a twin-linked plasma cannon on a Storm Raven. Dread is probably a bad plan as everything has power fists or chainfists (barring power sword sergeants) and will batter you senseless - you don't have enough attacks with blood fists to chew up a squad completely, and blood talons are only AP3 and the terminators will laugh at you. Alternatively, torrent them - lots and lots of attacks are the best way to put down termies outside of concentrated plasma. If you do go the Raven approach, try and get rid of his Cyclone Missile Launcher/Assault Cannon terminators first, as they're all he'll have that can bring you down.

 

Secondly - play tactically. Spread the objectives out if its an objective game, and use your mobility to your advantage. You can pick and choose where the fights happen; this is probably the best way to beat them. If he plays full-Deathwing, you'll have the advantage in both numbers and speed - use both wisely.

[Arkkinite]

Don't forget Plasma-Honour Guard! That's 8 plasma shots in rapid fire range and with the built-in priest in the squad FNP will help with the Gets Hot!

[IK Viper]

Death wing is very hard to beat in CC... they are terminators... but they are slow as crap.

 

against the DW Assault DS type of approach I usually just deploy my Jumpers centrally and try and overwhelm them in assault, puttin 20-30 marines with FNP and FC into them the turn the DS, I always run melta and can usually take out claws on the way in with positioned shots, end result, hopefully I kill them all before the Hammers fall.. litterally

 

against a wall you don't really have that luxury since once you kill one they assault you back and then your screwed :-( what you want is to be able to bring overwhelming force to bear and kill whole units at once not get into a protracted brawl where you WILL LOOSE :-(

 

my advice is combat sqauding for one, that way if you do get stuck in there or you do get counter charged your only tying down 5 guys instead of 10,

 

I also advise strongly the DC with chaplin idea, great hammer that puts out a crap ton of attackes on the charge, and can deal with a terminator sqaud of 5 regardless of war gear with relative ease on the charge. but give them a ride so they are faster then the termies and can get the charge off... (enter the Stormraven)

 

Play the whole board... he is not very fast once he gets on the ground, you will have a hard time in Relic or Purge, but other then that you should win the objective battle based on the fact that he can't be everywhere and if he is you can mass and smash his far flung units (hopefully)

 

He will probalby try and counter the speed issue with Land Raiders, or atleast I would, at which point you to using the Twl MM on the SR, MM Attack Bikes, or just a sacraficial combat squad of jumpers with 2 MG and a Sgt. with MB to "cut his legs out from under him"

 

then again you can always just go for Blood Angel Terminators in droves if you have them and fight him at his own game but with FNP... not my idea of a fun game but you will have a fair chance I think

[MadMek83]

5 man honor guard with 4 plasma guns. Add diviniation libby, use superior mobility and 24" shooting range. After all Deathwings termies only can mass 5 termies per squad, 6 with independent character. 4 plasma cannon devastators are nice and handy too. Only unit I would bring against Termies is Jumppack DC as their initial strike will flood termies like nothing else in attack but before using DC, I would shoot that unit and use DC only as sweepers.

 

One of the meaner idea: Drop pod devastators, use hellfire rounds to kill footslogging Termies. Forcing to throw as many saves as possible will mean they will eventually fail. Combi plasma sterns are a tad nastier. Move and fire when you're in suitable range rapidfiring combi plasma will kill almost any terminator squad with single volley, especially if you got diviniation libby there. When using appropriately with Plasma cannon devs, you got rather mean ap2 threat there.

 

That means killing Landraiders: Melta's are your best option. Regular Assault marine unit with 2 meltagun and sarge with powerfist and meltabomb is quite good when using yout pseed to outmaneuver landraiders but if you get it destroyed you have to deal termies in close, not ideal.

 

You always can try and see if you get few lucky rending shots via assault cannons. Baal's, Assaultannon razorbacks and such. In gaming for me, twinlinked assault cannons has been more reliable in terms of stripping landraiders of their hullpoints compeared to lascannons.

 

its is undoprtunate that most xenos do better stripping landraider of their hullpoints. Necron warriors, eldars with haywire weapons (damn wyches can assault landraider and effectively kill it faster than terminator kills squat) and bright / dark lances. And you could always take IG as allye, hunt raiders with Basilisks str 9 pie plates and spam few melta vets. But dealing landraiders as purely Baal way. Its bit tougher.

[Blindhamster]

hellfire rounds on devastators? I did not know that was possible *scratches head*

[Zeller]

I think he means sternguard with hellfire rounds as our devs don't have a lick of special ammo available.

[MadMek83]

I think he means sternguard with hellfire rounds as our devs don't have a lick of special ammo available.

That I meant, I got mixed with devs and sterns.

[CitadelArmyGuy]

Deathwing and other 2+ Save armies tend to give people fear. It is all psychological, because you can put ten wounds on a squad and only one model dies. 2+ Armor sits in a unique position where the mathematical standard deviation can easily result in Invincibility (they pass 18 saves against 20 wounds) or Disaster (they fail 4 saves against 10 wounds).

 

The key is to keep cool and objective. Realize that when he gets a hot-hand for armor saves on one turn, he just might fail the next three in a row. Just keep trying and eventually you'll see results. Math says on average it will take 30 wounds to kill 10 models with Power Armor, and it will take 30 wounds to kill 5 models with Terminator Armor. The 2+ may see greater swings of deviation either direction however, just remember that.

 

That being said, lots of good advice here so far---- Tailoring against a single, one-trick Army is just about the easiest thing imaginable.

 

The key to your approach should be mobility and force multiplication in order to achieve Mass or schwerpunkt (LINK) when finally choosing to attack. Librarians with Prescience and Sanguinary Priests providing Furious Charge are the common ways for Blood Angels to apply force multiplication.

 

Meltaguns onto your Assault Squads will be excellent. An Honor Guard squad with 4 plasmaguns is also a good choice- be sure to use a Librarian who takes the Primaris Power from the Divination discipline in the back of the rulebook so that they can re-roll missed hits (protection from Gets Hot! rule and also promotes damage). Also, Attack Bikes with Multimeltas can use mobility to shoot while keeping distance to prevent being assaulted.

 

Power Axes combined with Furious Charge (become Strength 6) will be such good value-- especially when equipped to models who cannot be challenged (commonly called 'Hidden'). Units which can take Hidden PowerAxes are Death Company, Sanguinary Guard and Vanguard Veterans. Just remember the Axes will hit on Initiative 1 so you'll need extra bodies to take Fist or Hammer wounds.

 

Finally, a Stormraven will be amazing since Deathwing (currently) do not have anything dedicated to hitting Flyers.

[EPK]

Realize that when he gets a hot-hand for armor saves on one turn, he just might fail the next three in a row.

 

That's for sure. And with only 5-man squads, these failed saves cut deep.

 

To the OP, are you sure he'll be using straight up all DW? Though it can certainly be done, many DW players tend to mix in fire support elements - Typhoons and Preds or even Vindis. He may even ask if he can use IA's Mortis Dread to help him combat flyers. I'd expect at least 2 TH/SS in each squad as which will someone diminish the effectiveness of your AP2 onslaught. He may even have full hammernator squads sporting CMLs so they can still send kraks down field as they advance.

[Septicon]

I play against a deathwing army all the time, weight of fire is the key, cause enough wounds and they go down. Baal's, vindi's and storm ravens are all excellent.

You can usually take a good chunk out of them with a full assault squad charge too. Just shoot them up then charge them down.

 

I find that people get hung up on the 2+, give them a hand full of saves to roll and they will fail a few & in a five man squad it doesn't take many casualties for them to lose their effectiveness.

[CitadelArmyGuy]

Oh and almost forgot! Make sure you focus fire--- not the rule from the rulebook, but the actual act of using all your various shooting to hit just one squad. Do not spread your shooting around unless range-restrictions prevent it. By all means shoot if you have nothing else in range, but as much as possible shoot just one squad until you render it ineffective.

[Chaplain Admetus]

Oh and almost forgot! Make sure you focus fire--- not the rule from the rulebook, but the actual act of using all your various shooting to hit just one squad. Do not spread your shooting around unless range-restrictions prevent it. By all means shoot if you have nothing else in range, but as much as possible shoot just one squad until you render it ineffective.

 

This. This is the best advice thus far. Something I learned from playing Tau - fire saturation is critical. For them, dispersing fire is a good way to lose, and you want to keep focused on one unit until it is no longer a threat. Some armies have to be played that way, but some armies also have to be played -against- that way, and Deathwing definitely fall into the latter camp. The biggest disadvantage is that they can't get more than 5 guys to a squad. Just do what I do and throw assault marines at the problem until it goes away (or you run out of assault marines).

 

Divination librarian might not be a bad shout either... prescience is always good for getting more hits with, and you have a 1/3 shot of getting the target unit re-rolls successful saves power. Dump that on a terminator unit, chuck all your stuff at it, and watch it evaporate. If you get lucky enough to roll that power you practically reduce their unit to power armour (they fail 1/6th of their saves, and then a further 1/6th of the 5/6ths they pass), and 5 man tactical squads aren't exactly renowned for their durability...