Disciples of Noise (D.I.Y. Slaanesh Warband)

[heralds of excess]

Hey Guys, I'm looking for some judgement on my D.I.Y. Warband: 'The Disciples of Noise'. I haven't got much so far so any advise will be much appreciated.

 

Basic Background

 

Formed after the Emperors Children splintered at Skalathrax; The Disciples of Noise are the remnants of the fabled 6th company. They favour the use of Sonic Weaponry, small unit combat and a heavily reliance on cultists and allied daemons to gain victory. The Disciples of Noise believe that all Slaaneshi cults should join together to purge the eye of terror of other, non-slaanesh aligned, warbands which they see as polluting the birthplace of Slaanesh. With this belief the Disciples have been known to absorb other, smaller, Slaanesh cults, willingly or otherwise, and have since grown into one of the largest in the eye of terror. The Disciples hold a number of Crone worlds within the eye and are slowly forging a mini empire at the heart of the old Eldar one. This brings them not only into conflict with other chaos warbands but also the Eldar and Dark Eldar who collect soul stone from the crone worlds.

[Erasmus of Baal]

There really isn't a lot of personality here. It feels like just another Chaos warband - except that you're making them a bit too important ("hold a number of Crone worlds within the Eye and are slowly forging a mini empire") for their own good. The usual argument (which I do agree with) is, "If they're that big/important, why aren't they in the mainstream fluff?" If you can't answer that question, I'm not sure that they should even be holding ONE world, especially not one of the mere handful of planets within the Eye of Terror.

[heralds of excess]

Thanks for the fast reply.

 

Hmm...

 

Unfortunately i can't see your argument behind the little personality point, although i have little written down, i feel that what i do have gives them quite a bit of personality. The Eye of Terror is a gateway to the immaterium and as such has theoretically as many worlds in it as the galaxy itself so to hold a small number of planets that recruits and tithes are collected from is hardly rocking the boat in terms of 'scale'. I also don't understand the 'mainstream fluff' idea, if it was in established fluff then it wouldn't be a D.I.Y. warband; care to expand? I would also appreciate some constructive ideas as well if at all possible?

 

Thanks

[Erasmus of Baal]

They favour the use of Sonic Weaponry, small unit combat and a heavily reliance on cultists and allied daemons to gain victory.

Congratulations, you're typical Noise Marines plus cultists. Nothing special there.

The Disciples of Noise believe that all Slaaneshi cults should join together to purge the eye of terror of other, non-slaanesh aligned, warbands which they see as polluting the birthplace of Slaanesh.

This is your most interesting byte. I recommend playing this up, as it's the only thing that keeps you from being just another warband that hates the Imperium for Chaos-only-knows what reason.

With this belief the Disciples have been known to absorb other, smaller, Slaanesh cults, willingly or otherwise, and have since grown into one of the largest in the eye of terror. The Disciples hold a number of Crone worlds within the eye and are slowly forging a mini empire at the heart of the old Eldar one. This brings them not only into conflict with other chaos warbands but also the Eldar and Dark Eldar who collect soul stone from the crone worlds.

Take a look at some maps of the 40K galaxy, like this one or this one. One of the things you'll notice is that there just aren't that many habitable worlds in the Galaxy even if we assume that these maps show as few as one-fifth of all the known worlds in the Galaxy. The Eye of Terror, then, is a small area with little chance for habitation to begin with because of all the chaotic stuff that tends to happen when an area is directly exposed to Chaos. Furthermore, what few worlds are within the Eye are usually given out by the Chaos Gods to individual ascended Champions of Chaos - and that is a rare occurence, only known to have happened to the Traitor Primarchs! As soon as you start talking about control of a whole world in as special a place as the Eye of Terror, you're talking about something that's a big deal. Add in the fact that you are talking about multiple worlds and thus eclipsing Primarchs - well, heck, either we'd know about you already or that is a pretty serious act of hubris.

 

Furthermore, your extreme devotion to Slaanesh prevents more than 3/4 of everyone in the Eye (I say vaguely "more than that" because it's difficult to judge those who are devoted to Chaos undivided) from liking or allying with you, especially given your hatred of everything that isn't Slaanesh. In fact, that hatred will lead to this at-least-75% hating you immeasurably. Basically, there's no chance for you to even take ONE whole world because Abaddon or some other Champion would come down and crush you like you were an anthill under a tank's treads. The Eye of Terror is not known for being a forgiving place.

 

Conclusion: this needs more personality and less power. You've got some workable ideas, but rewrite.

[heralds of excess]

Okay, given that the eye of terror is a gateway to another dimension, was home to the original eldar empire and planets have been known to be created within the eye by the whims of daemon princes (Fulgrim, Lorgar and Mortarion created their own planets within the eye) i don't understand your argument behind this point. I specifically chose the Eye because of its scale so that owning 2 or 3 planets wouldn't have much of an impact on the established fluff as a whole. If the eye of terror is so small and uninhabitable, how do the established legions and warbands all fit in without having already wiped each other out; let alone recruit from the worlds that are within the eye.

 

Out of curiosity, have you read any of the chaos codices of the last 3 editions?

[Archivist Thaddeus Kryptem]

First of all hello, I'm a long time lover/lurker on the Liber and feel that I might be able to offer a little advice, first of all I agree with Erasmus, for all the aforementioned reasons, but would like to weigh in with an answer to another of your points

 

how do the established legions and warbands all fit in without having already wiped each other out; let alone recruit from the worlds that are within the eye.

 

The worlds in the Eye of Terror are the old Eldar Empire (as you are clearly well aware) the problem is the Eye is like a stupidly big warp storm, warp space and real space don't mix well and have away of rending planets uninhabitable unless the powers that be decide to do a bit of fine tuning and give it to a champion, now I concede there are still going to be, out of a large empire which best case had a large proportion of habitable worlds, there is likely some you could set up shop on, however when you bare in mind your warband has literally hundreds of other warbands, 9 Legions including the Black Legion, whose leader pretty much doesn't like people sneezing with out permission and is easily the most powerful man in the Eye, all fighting for control of worlds in the Eye (when not on a Black crusade) the likelyhood of you getting a home world and keeping it from the haters of Slaanesh Khorne worshipers (who vastly out number Slaanesh) and every other guy who decides they like those worlds too is slim to none, thus I would argue it's nigh on impossible you can hold multiple worlds, especially seeing as Legions can't and don't hold multiple worlds or atleast no for long as it drains them of men, and men are in short supply which brings me on to my next point.

 

Recruitment. Demonworlds aren't really great places for recruitment due to huge levels of mutation, assuming of course the demon-world could even support a stable popuation of normal people: [see Thousand Sons], and it has not been killed by the $h!t tone of demons and other things that just get mad when they see a man, recruitment is such an issue most legions emploiy cloning on a huge scale; in particular the Emporors Children as Fabius Bile developed the technique while still actively serving the legion and this is eveident in most lore and books on the forces of chaos, and even if they do have a stable human population recruitment from the populance is a rarity because they tend to kill, tourment and force them into servitude more [see Deathguard].

 

I'm not going to weigh in on any more of the points already mentioned I merely wanted to add that, I get it critism is sometimes hard to take my first IA got torn a part on here, and it can feel like you're being victimised and be really disheartening but don't think we're doing it to try kill your idea, we (the Liber community) want ideas to succeed and grow, we just offer C&C to help you develop you armies story in a believable and lore friendly way, and hopefully it'll be an interesting read too! you dont have to take it onboard it's your army, they're your models and you have to live with them. just Eramus and I both think your Index Traitoris would be best served by focusing on the personality of your warband what makes its members tick? how do they think? what makes them different from every other Slaaneshi group?

 

Slaaneshi cults should join together to purge the eye of terror of other, non-slaanesh aligned, warbands which they see as polluting the birthplace of Slaanesh

 

I think with some elaboration this could answer a couple of those questions, almost Word Bearer level fanatasism to Slaanesh would be an interesting concept maybe?

 

Oh and sorry about the wall o' text I get carried away sometimes :)

 

EDIT: Jeez I need to work on my proof reading then I wouldn't need to come back and edit haha

[Erasmus of Baal]

Thanks for the support, ShaMonty.

 

Okay, given that the eye of terror is a gateway to another dimension, was home to the original eldar empire

FALSE. It was the CENTER of the Empire, the most heavily populated area. Think of Terra and the Sol system for the Imperium. The worlds that were where the Eye is now were just the biggest parts of a galactic empire. It may help to think of it in this way: Though a grenade sends shrapnel flying in every direction, it leaves a relatively small burn mark on the ground. In the same way, the birth of Slaanesh manage to wipe out the vast majority of the Eldar empire while leaving only the Eye of Terror as an unstable area.

 

planets have been known to be created within the eye by the whims of daemon princes (Fulgrim, Lorgar and Mortarion created their own planets within the eye)

Also false. The Primarchs did not create these worlds. The planets there already existed; the Daemon Primarchs merely shaped these worlds according to their preferences.

 

i don't understand your argument behind this point. I specifically chose the Eye because of its scale so that owning 2 or 3 planets wouldn't have much of an impact on the established fluff as a whole.

2 or 3 worlds ANYWHERE will have an impact on the established fluff, with greater impact the closer you get to already-established areas like Tau space, Sol system, and the Eye of Terror.

 

If the eye of terror is so small and uninhabitable, how do the established legions and warbands all fit in without having already wiped each other out; let alone recruit from the worlds that are within the eye.

Simply put, they keep their not-always-comfortable relationships with each other on hold in favor of nurturing their hatred for the Imperium, which is why your warband is such an issue for hating everything that isn't Slaaneshi. Also, no, they don't recruit within the Eye. They take prisoners, slaves, and sometimes cultists from outside the eye in with them.

 

Out of curiosity, have you read any of the chaos codices of the last 3 editions?

Nope. I haven't read any of the Chaos codices. However, I am a fluff maniac, and the Lexicanum is a wonderful resource.

[Hrvat]

Erasmus of Ball @ I will have to look for the exact quote but Eye of Terror holds thousands of "habitable" daemon worlds. Also those maps though helpful are somewhat missleading since they only show important worlds or worlds that were mentioned in the background texts in some way or another. Even the rulebook tells us that one million or so worlds of the Imperium is only a tiny fraction of habitable worlds inside the galaxy.

 

 

 

Herlads of excess @ looks interesting and don't be worried if they aren't unique, an army background can be interesting without being unique, for example my Angels of Malediction are very, very similar to their primogenitors the Dark Angels with some small variations that make them my personal force that diferes from the DA with the looks of their wargear (I am using GK and BT bitz).

 

What I would advise is that you do not make them to importnat so that things look believable, but don't forget that in the end it is your story about your models in your own personal interpretation of the GW background.

 

 

Cheers

[heralds of excess]

Thankyou both very much for the advice. Firstly i do not feel victimised by your comments, I've been lurking here for a while and understand how this part of the board works; although some comments could have perhaps been more, diplomatic?

 

Moving on.

 

Would it be a much better, and more plausible, idea if the warband were fleet based? this would allow me to continue with the zealousness and hatred aspect without messing with established fluff as then they could go wherever they wanted. Also if i have them recruit from their cultist stock that would correct the recruitment issue right? I still want to tie the eldar into their background but i could perhaps do that in another way...

[Hrvat]

Yes a fleet based warband would be a logical step considering their crusading/zealous behaviour and recruiting from young cultists is what Fabius Bile background suggests. Their conflict with the Eldar species would be natural if their are ransacking crone worlds in search of artefact or lore that will give them even greater plausre.

[Erasmus of Baal]

I agree with Hrvat. Shrink them down some, make them fleet-based, and they ransack Crone Worlds for fun. THAT is much better than what you started with! B)

[heralds of excess]

Okay guys thanks for such fast replies!

 

I'll write the 'new and improved' idea up over the weekend in a proper format so you'll have something to tear apart next week B)

 

Heralds

[heralds of excess]

Got some time tonight where i had nothing important to do; how's this for a start then?

 

History

 

The Disciples of Noise are the followers of Torren. Once a member of Fulgrim’s personal guard; Torren was exiled from the pleasure planet for the crime of treason. Fulgrim was loath to see one of his phoenix guards executed but he was unsure of Torren’s loyalty. To this end, Fulgrim set Torren the task of collecting twelve of Slaanesh’s most powerful servants and presenting them too him as a show of loyalty. Torren had no choice but to accept the challenge, taking his warband with him Torren now plies the stars in search of the remaining champions that he must best in order to return home. Torren’s quest is not unknown however, and many followers of Slaanesh have been drawn to his crusade in the hopes of one day seeing the pleasure planet for themselves or perhaps being considered worthy to fill a champion’s spot.

 

When Torren left the pleasure planet he took with him the most zealous and fanatical members of the Emperor's Children that he could rally to his cause on a single ship, The Pleasurehound,drifting aimlessly through the eye Torren quickly realised that his followers would destroy each other if left to their own devises. They would have to if it wasn't for the timely intervention of a crippled World Eaters frigate. Focusing his warriors into a murderous frenzy at the idea of killing the unclean followers of Khorne the Disciples descended on the damaged vessel.

 

 

Beliefs

 

The Disciples of Noise are followers of Slaanesh and believe in the total eradication of all, non-Slaaneshi, warbands.

[Erasmus of Baal]

The Disciples of Noise are the followers of Torren. Once a member of Fulgrim’s personal guard; Torren was exiled from the pleasure planet for the crime of treason.

This sounds GREAT. More detail, please!

Fulgrim was loath to see one of his phoenix guards executed but he was unsure of Torren’s loyalty.

Exile =/= executed. Fulgrim's whim is law on his Daemon World, so if he didn't want the guy executed, then the guy was not exectued. Fulgrim has no higher loyalty except possibly to Slaanesh, so there's no reason why the guy's execution would be a concern if Fulgrim didn't want him executed.

To this end, Fulgrim set Torren the task of collecting twelve of Slaanesh’s most powerful servants and presenting them too him as a show of loyalty.

In theory, wouldn't these already be on the pleasure-planet, having earned their way there? I suggest trying again with the quest. Honestly, the fact of a quest like this is unfortunately common in 40K: The Dark Angels searching for the Fallen, the AdMech seeking STCs, the Salamanders seeking their Primarch's relics, those two Tzeentchian daemons seeking to record every spell in the galaxy, and that's just off the top of my head. You could do worse with a plot device, sure, but try to link it more strongly to Slaanesh if you're insistent on taking that route.

Torren had no choice but to accept the challenge, taking his warband with him Torren now plies the stars in search of the remaining champions that he must best in order to return home.

Wait, what? I thought the quest was to find the greatest Champions of Slaanesh and bring them to Fulgrim's pleasure-world. That has nothing to do with besting them; why in the corpse-god's name would they refuse?!

Torren’s quest is not unknown however, and many followers of Slaanesh have been drawn to his crusade in the hopes of one day seeing the pleasure planet for themselves or perhaps being considered worthy to fill a champion’s spot.

Sure.

When Torren left the pleasure planet he took with him the most zealous and fanatical members of the Emperor's Children that he could rally to his cause on a single ship, The Pleasurehound,drifting aimlessly through the eye Torren quickly realised that his followers would destroy each other if left to their own devises.

Crazed, yes, but they're still Space Marines and not a big fan of killing their own without good reason. This seems kinda ridiculous to me.

They would have to if it wasn't for the timely intervention of a crippled World Eaters frigate. Focusing his warriors into a murderous frenzy at the idea of killing the unclean followers of Khorne the Disciples descended on the damaged vessel.

That works, I guess. Using love of battle and hatred for the enemy as a way to control your own forces isn't a bad choice. For a Chaos warband, that's certainly viable.

 

The Disciples of Noise are followers of Slaanesh and believe in the total eradication of all, non-Slaaneshi, warbands.

We already said that this is interesting and workable, but your extended intro gave no reason why this is the case. Is it supposed to be an extrapolation of that control method that I just discussed? If so, SAY SO.

[heralds of excess]

I wanted the other members of the phoenix guard to have set him up and made it look like he's plotting to kill Fulgrim. However Fulgrim knows that he is loyal but wants him to prove himself just incase. I guess it's important to note that Torren doesn't see his quest as a punishment; his inability to return to the pleasure planet is the punishment for him.

 

The task that Fulgrim set was to bring back twelve of Slaanesh's most powerful followers. I think this is very open ended and gives me a lot of scope. For example, one of them may be a cultist who has no way of leaving his home planet but has become the leader of a planet wide Slaaneshi cult. An idea that i was thinking of working in was that Torren has a seer with him (read primaris psyker for games) that directs him to the followers of Slaanesh that 'deserve' to set foot on the pleasure planet. Would that be a better idea?

 

The idea of collecting these champions also ties in with the Disciples practice of absorbing other warbands as they take the leaders, sometimes forcefully hence the 'besting' part, and offer the followers a place in the ranks of the Disciples. Obviously some will come willingly but others may not wish to give up their place as the leader of a warband that has its own aims and agenda's. Although this would be more a part of the Organisation section that i haven't finalised on paper yet.

 

I imagined it like this: if you have a bunch of drug addicts in a small space, and then give one of them some drugs, it won't take long for the others to find out and become aggressive against the individual in possession of the drugs. Now imagine that with bio enhanced humans who have senses 1000 times that of a normal space marine who for the last couple of hundred years have been living on a 'pleasure planet' but are suddenly sealed in a, comparatively, small metal box; their eventually going to start killing each other if just for a high. Remember also that i wanted Torrens first group to be the absolute bat sh*t crazies who no-one else wants around anymore because they're just to unpredictable.

 

 

Yes it was and sadly i wanted to expand on it in the beliefs section but accidentally pressed the reply instead of preview button and it was about midnight here so i figured that i'd just leave it till the morning. I plan to expand it further as a way of controlling the origin followers but it is eventually just adopted as the crusades ideology. I want Torren to be a very selfish individual; his main aim is to collect the champions so that he can return home. I don't see him believing in the idea of cleansing the eye of 'taint' but merely using it as a tool for support and loyalty.

[Erasmus of Baal]

I wanted the other members of the phoenix guard to have set him up and made it look like he's plotting to kill Fulgrim. However Fulgrim knows that he is loyal but wants him to prove himself just incase. I guess it's important to note that Torren doesn't see his quest as a punishment; his inability to return to the pleasure planet is the punishment for him.

Why? Why would they "set him up" like that? A decent plot device, sure, but, as below, you need to explain WHY the various members of the Legion are at odds with each other.

 

The task that Fulgrim set was to bring back twelve of Slaanesh's most powerful followers. I think this is very open ended and gives me a lot of scope. For example, one of them may be a cultist who has no way of leaving his home planet but has become the leader of a planet wide Slaaneshi cult. An idea that i was thinking of working in was that Torren has a seer with him (read primaris psyker for games) that directs him to the followers of Slaanesh that 'deserve' to set foot on the pleasure planet. Would that be a better idea?

I don't see how your idea with the seer changes the main idea of the quest. And, again, why wouldn't they just be the best and brightest among the Legion? At the very least, rephrase the quest so that that possiblity is excluded. Also, consider what makes someone the "most powerful": Personal strength at arms, favor with Slaanesh such that he can summon tons of daemons, secret manipulation of the governments of a few worlds, or just having a big fleet? I'm not going to argue about how easy the quest would or would not be based on these definitions, but what answers you give certainly change what this guy is looking for and what obstacles he faces on the quest.

 

The idea of collecting these champions also ties in with the Disciples practice of absorbing other warbands as they take the leaders, sometimes forcefully hence the 'besting' part, and offer the followers a place in the ranks of the Disciples. Obviously some will come willingly but others may not wish to give up their place as the leader of a warband that has its own aims and agenda's. Although this would be more a part of the Organisation section that i haven't finalised on paper yet.

Consider a Christian, to whom a well-known angel comes and says that the angel wants to bring that Christian directly and immediately to Heaven. Honestly, unless they're overly attached to what they already have, then they'll go quite willingly. It's the same concept here, as I imagine that someone claiming to be from Fulgrim's personal guard would be quite well-respected just on that one mention. One proof of identity - which, since they are not Khornate, is not necessarily combat - and the "powerful follower of Slaanesh" should be eager to join him on a return trip to the pleasure-world.

 

I imagined it like this: if you have a bunch of drug addicts in a small space, and then give one of them some drugs, it won't take long for the others to find out and become aggressive against the individual in possession of the drugs. Now imagine that with bio enhanced humans who have senses 1000 times that of a normal space marine who for the last couple of hundred years have been living on a 'pleasure planet' but are suddenly sealed in a, comparatively, small metal box; their eventually going to start killing each other if just for a high. Remember also that i wanted Torrens first group to be the absolute bat sh*t crazies who no-one else wants around anymore because they're just to unpredictable.

That works, as far as I'm concerned, but SAY THAT. I mean, heck, go looking around the Liber a bit - most of these IAs are multiple pages long because they have to explain things like this! Your IA has to be able to stand on its own, so don't summarize too much or take shortcuts. Actually explain that they're feeling deprived and growing restless.

 

Yes it was and sadly i wanted to expand on it in the beliefs section but accidentally pressed the reply instead of preview button and it was about midnight here so i figured that i'd just leave it till the morning. I plan to expand it further as a way of controlling the origin followers but it is eventually just adopted as the crusades ideology. I want Torren to be a very selfish individual; his main aim is to collect the champions so that he can return home. I don't see him believing in the idea of cleansing the eye of 'taint' but merely using it as a tool for support and loyalty.

Same as before: Great way to establish personality for your Warband, and you need to write that out in your IT draft.

 

 

Overall, you really are looking pretty solid. Some kinks need to get worked out, as I mentioned above, but the main thing you need right now is to expand the IT. Honestly, this seems to me more like the foundations of a short story rather than an IA or IT simply because you've got all the elements of a story (initial problem, quest event, challenges along the way that would need to get fleshed out, and a foregone conclusion) rather than making it open-ended. If you want to cut out that "foregone conclusion" that I mentioned, the best way to do it would be to have Torren die in combat. THAT would change some things....