Th!rdeye Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 So the Black Mace is AP4, Fleshbane, plus its special rule of "no saves allowed after a failed test" plus the AoE after the fight. Kewl. Daemon Prince has a decent statline and such. And is a monstrous creature which means it has OTHER special rules such as Smash. Correct? Smash = AP2 attacks. Correct? The Daemon Prince can buy the Black Mace and use it. Correct? So does the Black Mace now hit with AP2? On the charge a DoK does 6x* S7 AP2 hits that wound on 2+, that outright kill anything that fails a toughness test after suffering a wound? Well....that is fun. :D *plus more if the Daemon weapon test is passed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urauloth Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Yep, as far as I can see the only thing that supercedes smash is using an AP1 weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Sergeant Scarus Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 So the Black Mace is AP4, Fleshbane, plus its special rule of "no saves allowed after a failed test" plus the AoE after the fight. Kewl. Daemon Prince has a decent statline and such. And is a monstrous creature which means it has OTHER special rules such as Smash. Correct? Smash = AP2 attacks. Correct? The Daemon Prince can buy the Black Mace and use it. Correct? So does the Black Mace now hit with AP2? On the charge a DoK does 6x* S7 AP2 hits that wound on 2+, that outright kill anything that fails a toughness test after suffering a wound? Well....that is fun. :D *plus more if the Daemon weapon test is passed? You're correct (it seems to have passed by alot of people!). Also, from the wording of the Black Mace it's a toughness test PER WOUND, not just if you're wounded. Which is amazing! It also seems you can give Daemon Princes Gift of Mutation.... gave it to my Prince for a test run: Yesterday, in one game, he got Mutiple Gifts then rolled the ''+1 Armour and +1T'' gifts. He is a Daemon of Tzeentch, so had a 2+ save (re-rolling 1's thanks to being Tzeentch) a 5++ T6 and with the Black Mace he has 5+D6 attacks, wounding on 2's at AP2 (thanks to the 'Passive' benefit of smash). He took out Mephiston (without making him take a toughness test, just caused 6 wounds outright! I love hatred), 2 Vindicators and an assault squad and finished with 3 wounds left :P Literally couldn't believe it. Gift meant I was immune to being Insta-killed by S10 hits and anything AP3-6 was completely usless against him. That was my very first outing with the new dex and obviously I got pretty lucky buffs, but I'm always going to spend my last 10 points on Gift. Won my second game as well against codex marines (gift was plus 1 BS... swings and roundabouts :P ) - Daemon Prince was still amazing, cut through a tactical squad, a termie assault squad and a Dread. Which brings me to a query - how does a Daemon Weapon work in regards to doing double Strength smash attacks? We couldn't decide, so I didn't take any bonus attacks (save +1 for charging) - still one gibbed the dread before it could strike... but the idea of 6 S10 attacks at I8 is kind of hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 So the Black Mace is AP4, Fleshbane, plus its special rule of "no saves allowed after a failed test" plus the AoE after the fight. Kewl. Daemon Prince has a decent statline and such. And is a monstrous creature which means it has OTHER special rules such as Smash. Correct? Smash = AP2 attacks. Correct? The Daemon Prince can buy the Black Mace and use it. Correct? So does the Black Mace now hit with AP2? On the charge a DoK does 6x* S7 AP2 hits that wound on 2+, that outright kill anything that fails a toughness test after suffering a wound? Well....that is fun. :) *plus more if the Daemon weapon test is passed? You're correct (it seems to have passed by alot of people!). Also, from the wording of the Black Mace it's a toughness test PER WOUND, not just if you're wounded. Which is amazing! It also seems you can give Daemon Princes Gift of Mutation.... gave it to my Prince for a test run: Yesterday, in one game, he got Mutiple Gifts then rolled the ''+1 Armour and +1T'' gifts. He is a Daemon of Tzeentch, so had a 2+ save (re-rolling 1's thanks to being Tzeentch) a 4++ T6 and with the Black Mace he has 5+D6 attacks, wounding on 2's at AP2 (thanks to the 'Passive' benefit of smash). He took out Mephiston (without making him take a toughness test, just caused 6 wounds outright! I love hatred), 2 Vindicators and an assault squad and finished with 3 wounds left :) Literally couldn't believe it. Gift meant I was immune to being Insta-killed by S10 hits and anything AP3-6 was completely usless against him. That was my very first outing with the new dex and obviously I got pretty lucky buffs, but I'm always going to spend my last 10 points on Gift. Won my second game as well against codex marines (gift was plus 1 BS... swings and roundabouts :P ) - Daemon Prince was still amazing, cut through a tactical squad, a termie assault squad and a Dread. Which brings me to a query - how does a Daemon Weapon work in regards to doing double Strength smash attacks? We couldn't decide, so I didn't take any bonus attacks (save +1 for charging) - still one gibbed the dread before it could strike... but the idea of 6 S10 attacks at I8 is kind of hilarious. You half your attack profile, then the rest get added on to whatever is left. 5 attacks is cut to 3 then + d6, charge, off-hand ect ect. Same thing with abilities that swing in the opposite direction like a Power Fist, you double your profile str then add in furious charge, gifts, ect ect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Which brings me to a query - how does a Daemon Weapon work in regards to doing double Strength smash attacks? We couldn't decide, so I didn't take any bonus attacks (save +1 for charging) - still one gibbed the dread before it could strike... but the idea of 6 S10 attacks at I8 is kind of hilarious. Described in the rulebook, you halve your base attacks, then double base strength, then add charging and cc weapon bonuses, then daemon weapon bonus attacks and S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacelizard Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Which brings me to a query - how does a Daemon Weapon work in regards to doing double Strength smash attacks? We couldn't decide, so I didn't take any bonus attacks (save +1 for charging) - still one gibbed the dread before it could strike... but the idea of 6 S10 attacks at I8 is kind of hilarious. Described in the rulebook, you halve your base attacks, then double base strength, then add charging and cc weapon bonuses, then daemon weapon bonus attacks and S. Wrong...Smash gives you AP2 for all attacks. You only halve your attacks when you are doubling your strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacinda Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Which brings me to a query - how does a Daemon Weapon work in regards to doing double Strength smash attacks? We couldn't decide, so I didn't take any bonus attacks (save +1 for charging) - still one gibbed the dread before it could strike... but the idea of 6 S10 attacks at I8 is kind of hilarious. Described in the rulebook, you halve your base attacks, then double base strength, then add charging and cc weapon bonuses, then daemon weapon bonus attacks and S. Wrong...Smash gives you AP2 for all attacks. You only halve your attacks when you are doubling your strength. Reading is FUN-damental! And that doubling of strength is exactly what the question was about. AP2 for all attacks has already been covered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Sergeant Scarus Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Which brings me to a query - how does a Daemon Weapon work in regards to doing double Strength smash attacks? We couldn't decide, so I didn't take any bonus attacks (save +1 for charging) - still one gibbed the dread before it could strike... but the idea of 6 S10 attacks at I8 is kind of hilarious. Described in the rulebook, you halve your base attacks, then double base strength, then add charging and cc weapon bonuses, then daemon weapon bonus attacks and S. That's what we thought, but I just felt abit wrong having 10 S10 attacks... Four was sufficient as it turns out. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 It looks awesome now, but there's so little in this book that's actually awesome that I have to wonder if the combination of black mace & daemon prince is a mistake that will get killed via errata. I'm half expecting a change to the smash rules that makes it its own weapon, and monsters will be able to either use their smash rules or use the properties of an equipped weapon, but not both, leaving mace princes with AP4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Sergeant Scarus Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 It looks awesome now, but there's so little in this book that's actually awesome that I have to wonder if the combination of black mace & daemon prince is a mistake that will get killed via errata. I'm half expecting a change to the smash rules that makes it its own weapon, and monsters will be able to either use their smash rules or use the properties of an equipped weapon, but not both, leaving mace princes with AP4. Haha, I don't think so (you never know...) but I genuinely feel it was intended. To be fair, currently, a Prince wielding a stick with nails in is AP2. :tu: I'm certainly going to enjoy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 To be fair, currently, a Prince wielding a stick with nails in is AP2. New modeling idea. DP with baseball bat with nails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatefires Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 I need to find a cool way to model the black mace, I have the Horus from Kabuki miniratures but that mace would look a bit small on a Daemon Prince Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricBasser Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 I was thinking of modeling my Prince with a spray can of mace. . . it is in the future after all. Alternately, Daemon Prince are strong. I think they would hit as hard with their fist, mace, or pillow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonah Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 I just noticed this in the FAQ: Q: The rulebook says that you halve your Attacks characteristic ifyou perform a Smash attack. However, if a Monstrous Creature has an uneven number of Attacks, (3 for example), but has charged that turn, does it receive the bonus Attack for charging before or after halving its Attacks? (p42) A: You halve the model’s Attacks characteristic first, then apply any additional modifiers. In the example above, the model would halve its Attacks first (rounding up to 2), then receive a bonus Attack for charging. I thought you totted up all the attacks and then halved them, but it looks like that's not the case. So say for example I roll a 6 for the Daemon Weapon, does that mean he gets 3 attacks basic (half of 5), then you add 1 for charging, 1 for having a 2nd CCW, and then 6 for the Mace, so 11 total? That's some tasty beans right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 This has been discussed a few times in previous threads, though I dont think it has had its own thread. You half your profile attacks, then add in everything extra, that gives you your attack total. Same idea with power fists or weapons that x2 str. You double your profile, add in all bonuses and that equals your new str for those attacks. So say for example I roll a 6 for the Daemon Weapon, does that mean he gets 3 attacks basic (half of 5), then you add 1 for charging, 1 for having a 2nd CCW, and then 6 for the Mace, so 11 total? That's some tasty beans right there. That is EXACTLY how it works :P Makes for a CC manimal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatefires Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Yes, but you dont have a 2nd CCW as that section of the wargear replaces your bone stock CCW when you purchase the Black Mace. Daemon prince only has one CCW, So 10 attacks, still uber as can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 ? A DP can get up to 12 on the charge, 11 normally. 10-9 if you're smashing, I guess. Last night I had a Tzeentch DP Sauron-smash his way through two paladin squads, a Callidus assassin, and a terminator squad, and the only wound he took was from overwatch. Rerolling those 1's to save was so awesome, and he's a super smash bro now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 ? A DP can get up to 12 on the charge, 11 normally. 10-9 if you're smashing, I guess. Last night I had a Tzeentch DP Sauron-smash his way through two paladin squads, a Callidus assassin, and a terminator squad, and the only wound he took was from overwatch. Rerolling those 1's to save was so awesome, and he's a super smash bro now! LMAO friggin sweet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatefires Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 ? A DP can get up to 12 on the charge, 11 normally. 10-9 if you're smashing, I guess. The answer was in regards to Jonah’s question about smash attacks, it was a separate thread that was copy and pasted into this one about smash attacks with the black mace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Sergeant Scarus Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 ? A DP can get up to 12 on the charge, 11 normally. 10-9 if you're smashing, I guess. Last night I had a Tzeentch DP Sauron-smash his way through two paladin squads, a Callidus assassin, and a terminator squad, and the only wound he took was from overwatch. Rerolling those 1's to save was so awesome, and he's a super smash bro now! Seahawk - haha, Sauron-Smash is exactly what I thought of too when battering through Mephi and the terminators. I absolutely love the 'Re-roll 1s' too - after carving through the squad, I was hit by a vindi - failed my 5++ (surprise!) by rolling a 1... re-rolled that 1 and it came up a 6 *evil grin* dead vindi next turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonah Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Yes, but you dont have a 2nd CCW as that section of the wargear replaces your bone stock CCW when you purchase the Black Mace. Daemon prince only has one CCW, So 10 attacks, still uber as can be. Ah ty, you saved me from cheating my friends! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 So I was wondering about this, if a DP were to charge into a unit with one wound how does that work? Just nothing happens since they would die automatically? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 He dead. You still get to blast people within 3" though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 So I was wondering about this, if a DP were to charge into a unit with one wound how does that work? Just nothing happens since they would die automatically? The rest of the rule would still very much be in effect (i.e. the everyone within 3" that has not taken a wound from the black mace, must take a toughness test or die) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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