New Chosen

[Iron Sage]

Still feels like too much for me. The more chosen you add, the more expensive it feels, due to the free champion. five naked chosen is only five points more than 5 supergrit chaos marines, and one point more a model doesn't feel bad at all. 20 naked chosen is 50 points more than 20 supergrit chaos marines, and 2.5 points a model doesn't feel nearly so nice.

 

And that's all assuming that supergrit is worth two points a model, and while I haven't completely written it off, I'm really, really skeptical. I mean, you'd think by that comparison they'd be great in a land raider with a character. at a squad size of < 10, they're < 2 points per model over basic chaos marines, and they get to keep their second special. But then you remember that marines stuffed in a land raider would probably opt to drop their bolters, and suddenly the chosen are back to being nearly four points a model more expensive. For less points than that, the basic marines could grab a mark and vets, and between the points they have left over and the second special they're not taking they'd even have points left over for an icon, or a toy for the character they'd be escorting. And unless that character is yabba dabba, the chosen aren't scoring where the chaos marines are. And we haven't even considered plagues, noise marines, or 'zerkers that could have been the escort and been scoring.

 

No. No, it doesn't work.

 

And it's the difference in cost of vets of the last war still really pisses me off. Every time I look at it it makes me mad. It's like the codex is giving me the middle finger every time I see it. "What, an upgrade you want to give them just because it's cool and fluffy? well screw you, buddy!" Argh. It's so aggravating.

 

 

I'll eventually be trying some of these guys out, and when I do maybe I'll find something about them that I like. But not without abby, and I'm not fielding Abby at less than 2k points, and I'm building my forces back up from scratch, so it won't be for a long time. I just need to put these guys out of my head for a while. They're one of the units that thinking about them just makes me angry. Them and possessed basically - units I personally really wanted to like for thematic reasons, units I would have happily built my army around, but that just don't cut it on the table, because they were afraid to let chaos have nice things. How long is the specter of the 3.5 codex going to hang over our heads? How long must our penance last? At least three full editions of the game, now, it seems.

 

 

Hmm, but Mal, what does you land raider unit do after it has won its assault? Is it really then that bad to have the option to sit back and fire after you have most likely captured an enemy objective? I would think not. Then its the time for the surviving (if it really did survive) raider to use its guns, and for its delivered cargo to run rampant in the enemy depoyment sone. I`d saay that 9 berserkers and a lord,is hardly as good as 9 chosen and a lord. The chosen can then, as I said, sit back and fire their weapons after their initial target is destroyed.

 

But yes, for them to be used like common infantry, they need to be troops.

[Blackmonkey0]

Chosen aren't for me.

Base cost is fine but the options are too expensive (VOTLW, marks and icons) for them to make them fun.

 

My DV Chosen are destined to be CSM champs in normal sqds don't think they'll see the field as a unit.

[JohanReidel]

I'm looking at it from an Abbadon point of view.

 

Abaddon+8 chosen(vets, 2 flamers, PW) in a LR(dozer). 685p

2*10 chosen(vets, 2 plasmas, PW) in rinos. 2*280p

2*20 cultists with 2 stubbers. 2*100p

 

I'd say that is a solid section of scoring units with some really nice options for aggression coming in at a little over 1400p. So depending on what size of game your playing you have around 550p to bulk this out with. Add 3 flyers, or add a firebase of havocs with skyefire and oblits, even more aggression with 2 units of spawns and a jugger lord.

 

To me they seem like a great way of mucking about close to the enemy and while being a constant danger and able to be flexible enough to hold still or go out and kick someone in the face.

[RolandTHTG]

Johan, any reason you're limiting your chosen to two special weapons, when they can take up to 5? or additional special melee weapons in abaddon's squad?

[Iron Sage]

Johan, any reason you're limiting your chosen to two special weapons, when they can take up to 5? or additional special melee weapons in abaddon's squad?

Probably to make it cheaper. I had the same thoughts, though I would include one cheap flamer I guess.

 

Costly but very lethal unit which can do most everything.

[Sception]

Points cost, most likely. Chosen aren't awful for thier base points cost, but their options stack up fast. Two plasmas for 30 points adds some useful versatility for not too painful a cost. Five for 75 points gets you a lot of plasma death, but also a lot of overheat on expensive models, and cost you nearly a whole second squad. Same with the melee weapons, except even worse. Chosen really should not be paying independent character points for their melee weapons. Maybe one or two here or there, but fully kitting out the squad's going to be expensive, so I can appreciate the restraint, though I might have thrown a fist in just for versatility's sake.

 

 

That said, especially if you're trying to push them forward in rhinos, you might benefit from trading the two plasmas in each of the rhino squads for two each of meltas and flamers. Same points, and you lose some mid range power, particularly if your rhino pops and you're forced to hoof it, but your overwatch is a bit scarier against most targets thanks to the flamers, you've got a bit more firepower on the charge, a tool against heavy vehicles, and chosen are a bit pricier than I'd like to risk on gets-hot rolls. Then again, rhinos are pretty fragile these days, and if you end up walking them, then the two plasmas are probably a better use of points for the extra range.

 

 

I'm thinking something more like the following for 2250 points:

 

Abaddon + six or so tzeentch terminators, 500ish

 

2x30 cultists w/ flamers 300ish (infantry screen for chosen)

2x10 chosen, 2 plas, pwep, 450ish

2x10 CSMs, 2 plas, 350ish (camping objectives)

 

1600ish total, 650ish left over for meltabikes, havocs with a quad gun ADF, maybe a drake or a couple oblits? Maybe some more weapons on the chosen?

 

I don't know. Maybe not. Doesn't look quite right to me. Maybe drop the chaos marines for more cultists, and try to fit in another HQ? I don't know.

[Iron Sage]

Points cost, most likely. Chosen aren't awful for thier base points cost, but their options stack up fast. Two plasmas for 30 points adds some useful versatility for not too painful a cost. Five for 75 points gets you a lot of plasma death, but also a lot of overheat on expensive models, and cost you nearly a whole second squad. Same with the melee weapons, except even worse. Chosen really should not be paying independent character points for their melee weapons. Maybe one or two here or there, but fully kitting out the squad's going to be expensive, so I can appreciate the restraint, though I might have thrown a fist in just for versatility's sake.

 

 

That said, especially if you're trying to push them forward in rhinos, you might benefit from trading the two plasmas in each of the rhino squads for two each of meltas and flamers. Same points, and you lose some mid range power, particularly if your rhino pops and you're forced to hoof it, but your overwatch is a bit scarier against most targets thanks to the flamers, you've got a bit more firepower on the charge, a tool against heavy vehicles, and chosen are a bit pricier than I'd like to risk on gets-hot rolls. Then again, rhinos are pretty fragile these days, and if you end up walking them, then the two plasmas are probably a better use of points for the extra range.

 

 

I'm thinking something more like the following for 2250 points:

 

Abaddon + six or so tzeentch terminators, 500ish

 

2x30 cultists w/ flamers 300ish (infantry screen for chosen)

2x10 chosen, 2 plas, pwep, 450ish

2x10 CSMs, 2 plas, 350ish (camping objectives)

 

1600ish total, 650ish left over for meltabikes, havocs with a quad gun ADF, maybe a drake or a couple oblits? Maybe some more weapons on the chosen?

 

I don't know. Maybe not. Doesn't look quite right to me. Maybe drop the chaos marines for more cultists, and try to fit in another HQ? I don't know.

 

IMO in such a list its better to drop the CSM units, add a third Chosen unit instead (whatever else chose may be, they are extremly versatile with their 3 attacks). Maybe make them 2 plasma, 2 melta, 1 flamer. Maybe just 2 plasma and 1 flamer (might be enough, but might add that fist as well, and Meltabombs on the champ).