minigun762 Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 I only see 5 man squads with 4 heavies being referenced. Why the change from 8 man squads to support 4 weapons? If I'm paying lascannon prices for fancy missiles, I want them to have more bullet catchers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0MMY Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Agreed, a few extra "wounds" for expensive kit is a good idea. I'm planning on running a 10 man havocs squad basically as a tooled up CSM squad - champion with an axe or something, 4 meltaguns, 5 bolters and cc. weapons. Undercover tank hunters :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Asvaldir Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Problem with that is it uses up a heavy support slot. If I take havocs I like to have them armed with heavy weapons...missile launchers and such. Wouldn't be a bad idea though to add some bodies to havoc squads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gman Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Yea I used to run my havoc squads with four additional bodies, and no champion. It kind of sucks now that we have to pay the price for a champion, and even more so, becuase you better throw a CC upgrade on him for challenges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0MMY Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 I'd be hoping to avoid challenges with a heavy weps havoc squad, although you could get FA units attacking i suppose... I do like the fact that you can tool up the non heavy (or special) wep boys with cc. weapons though; this, with a few extra bodies, makes them less of a soft target in combat - deffo, as you say, better than a 5 man havoc squad... I don't mind losing a heavy position too much, I may even take two havoc squads; tanks be damned! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aothaine Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 If you focus on a close range force then the meltagun havocs are the way to go. I am a HUGE proponent of the Melta Havocs. I even give them MoK to make sure that my opponent is paying in blood for attacking my team that is moving around the field and killing anything I want them to. In my Khornate force I'll be running 2 10-man havoc squads Mok+meltax4+powerfist in Rhinos w Dirge Casters + Extra Armor Gives the havoc squad 4 attacks on the charge, 4 when taking a charge and 5 attacks from the champ who is really only there to prevent the unit from getting swamped by something with AV. I'm pretty sure 36 str 4 and 5 str 8 attacks will be able to crush most units that try to assault this unit. Then I'll have 2 Heldrakes to deal with my opponents air. I think this should be sufficient. However, if my local meta starts to go heavy air I can easily swap out the squads meltas for missile launchers. The Khornate force will look like this... HQ Chaos Lord MoK + other goodies ELITE Mutilatorx3 (Deep Strike) MoK Mutilatorx3 (Deep Strike) MoK) TROOPS Khorne Berzerkersx9 (lord attached) Rhino Plasmax2 PowerFist Khorne Berzerkersx10 Rhino Plasmax2 PowerFist Khorne Berzerkersx10 Rhino Plasmax2 PowerFist FAST ATTACK Heldrake x2 HEAVY SUPPORT Havocx10 ccw Meltax4 Rhino Power Fist Havocx10 ccw Meltax4 Rhino Power Fist Havocx10 ccw Meltax4 Rhino Power Fist Didn't calc the points yet... but this is the general layout.. + or - a squad or number of models here and there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 I only see 5 man squads with 4 heavies being referenced. Why the change from 8 man squads to support 4 weapons? If I'm paying lascannon prices for fancy missiles, I want them to have more bullet catchers. costs too much . its is better to have 2x5 squads and one dead from flyers then have 1x8 one and be left with 1-2 hvy weapon after it gets shot up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possessed Marine Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 I only see 5 man squads with 4 heavies being referenced. Why the change from 8 man squads to support 4 weapons? If I'm paying lascannon prices for fancy missiles, I want them to have more bullet catchers. costs too much . its is better to have 2x5 squads and one dead from flyers then have 1x8 one and be left with 1-2 hvy weapon after it gets shot up. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urdokadin Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Why even bother with extra bodies, buy 5 and two heavy weapons and park them in a rhino in cover with a havoc launcher. Instant pillbox requiring anti vehicle weapons before they get to your squishy bits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 maybe because 2 RL are not good enough anti aircraft support units ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urdokadin Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Neither is four for the price. I'd rather have two autocannons and a rhino. Someone else can man the aegis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanctimonius Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Can I ask why mutilators rather than termies? Looks to me like they are just expensive fire magnets to draw incoming pressure away from other units, because they will draw that pressure. Suicide termies have as good a chance to survive in relative numbers, and can at least shoot when they drop. I guess the mutilators could be more fluffy but that's expensive fluff right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caffeineated Chaos Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Idk, I like that I can get 28 autocannon shots in with 4 of them being twin-linked, skyfire and interceptor for under 450 points w/ 3 4x5 havoc squads and an aegis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 i looked at hovoc cost earlier today, flakk missile become very expensive and arent really worth it IMO id rather take a fiend and have the 8 S8 shots needing 6's to hit (your very likely to get on from 8 dice) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted October 11, 2012 Author Share Posted October 11, 2012 On flakk vs autocannons, remember they share the same profile, the one is just 4x as likely to hit air targets but the other has 2x the shots. Considering the point costs, I'd take them both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urauloth Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Extra models don't equate to ablative wounds as reliably they used to either, get by flanking fire and you could lose heavy weapons way before all your boltguns go down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Asvaldir Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 If you didn't have to take a champ maybe it would be worth adding a few extra bodies, but the great thing about havocs is they offer cheap heavy weapon support. You lose that when you spend 60pts on adding a few more bodies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attomsk Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 i looked at hovoc cost earlier today, flakk missile become very expensive and arent really worth it IMOid rather take a fiend and have the 8 S8 shots needing 6's to hit (your very likely to get on from 8 dice) 4 skyfire missle havocs will land on average twice as many hits on fliers than a forge fiend. A forge fiend is more of an "pray this works" solution than an actual AA solution. That being said you may do OK with one, especially if you have an aegis with quad gun handy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Asvaldir Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 For 40pts, I don't see why you shoudn't take flakk missiles if you're going up against a fair amount of airpower. Not that much to get rid of some powerful flying vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaliGn Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 I say keep your options open, build a core list that is the basic shape of your force and make each unit flexible. Keep a few hundred points if swappable options flakk missiles vs meltas and a few gifts of mutation or fists over power weapons. Spend an amount on bodies and the remainder on upgrades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 >buying flakk missiles Enjoy paying powerfist prices to not kill Vendettas, Ravens, Heldrakes...I mean, you're probably not even landing enough glances to kill the AV11 Scythes/Doomscythe. If you worry that much about flyers, take an Icarus lascannon and park a Warpsmith on it. Havoks really have three builds: - Champ, 4 x Havoks w/lascannons (155 points) Cheap, smokes armour easily this edition, MC's hate it. What's not to love? - Champ, 4 x Havoks w/autocannons (115 points) Even cheaper, transports and light armour hate it, infantry hate it, and you will net about the same damage against flyers as flakk. - Champ, 4 x Havoks w/meltaguns, Rhino (150 points) I prefer the lascannons, but meltaspam is never a bad option. Try it out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 A havok with a missile launcher with flakk missiles is only 3 points more than just a havok with a missile launcher in the last codex. I oftan ran a squad of havoks with missile launchers, though since nobody runs fliers around here (yet) I get to save 60 points for the time being. And I've found that people do tend to "snipe" the heavyies regardless if I buy bodyguards or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyl- Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 I'm going to experiment with 4 missile launchers in an icarus aegis this weekend. Champ mans the gun, so that's either 5 anit-air, 5 anti-armor, or 4 anti-swarm with a lascannon for rediculous overkill. It's worth a test imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkOne Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 What about a squad with 2 autocannons and 2 missile launchers with flak? Would that not give you: 4 S7 AP4, 2 S8 AP3 vs vehicles or marines out of cover 4 S7 AP4 @ BS1, + 2 more @BS4 vs fliers And the option to unload 2 frags into GEQ or hordes? Ablative dudes or not, your preference, isn't this a good and fairly inexpensive all rounder build? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 What about a squad with 2 autocannons and 2 missile launchers with flak? I'm playtesting that tomorrow, in point of fact, with the Champ manning a quad-gun for gits and shiggles. I'll let you know how it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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