T0MMY Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Hi all Quick question: is soul blaze any good? I don't have a rule book handy so don't even know what it means?! I'm thinking of giving it to a CSM squad with mostly bolt weapons - worth the MoT and IoF?? (35 points) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricBasser Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 I was thinking the same thing. But the unit needs to take an unsaved wound to be set one fire. I can see an icon being taken on 1k Sons. Being ap3 bolters. I was also thinking it on havocs. 4:Heavy Bolters can ruin orks and necron warriors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 If I did the quick math correctly, it averages out to be +1 bolter shot equivalent per turn extra damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.darkness Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 The short answer is no. It's absolutely useless. The long answer is the math, but i cant be bothered with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0MMY Posted October 11, 2012 Author Share Posted October 11, 2012 The short answer is no. It's absolutely useless. Haha, ok sounds pretty definitive, thanks Mr.D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urauloth Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Quick question: is soul blaze any good? Quick answer: no Long answer: hahahahahahahahahahaha no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacinda Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Hi all Quick question: is soul blaze any good? I don't have a rule book handy so don't even know what it means?! I'm thinking of giving it to a CSM squad with mostly bolt weapons - worth the MoT and IoF?? (35 points) TL;DR version --- Soul Blaze is worth 2.5 points, tops. 50% of the time it just goes out. 50% of the time it cause 2 flamer hits. It works better on things that rely on cover (orks and the like) for obvious reason. Check for blaze after each turn, both yours and your opponents. A quick look will see an average of 1 extra hit. But if it continues, you may generate more. so a further 50% chance to cause a couple of hits. 50% of 50% = 25% chance to cause 2 hits. When you roll the pattern on out you get: +1hit + 1/2 hit + 1/4 hit + 1/8 hit .... if you follow the limit out ... it rounds off to +2 hits each time you cause a wound to an enemy unit. Bunches of other stipulations apply like this is assuming you are hitting a different unit every turn for an infinite number of game turns, this will be the upper limit of the average increase. You can also get a Soul Blaze counter when firing Overwatch, but you do have to actually cause a wound and that it not always certian. But it is close enough to think of it as 1 extra flamer in overwatch (2 extra flamer hits) When using a flamer in your troops, you should be getting 5 hits per flamer template consistently. Probably more than 5, but let's stick with 5 for now. If Soul Blaze will net you the equivalent of two extra flamer hits and a normal flamer will yield 5 hits then we can say that Soul Blaze is worth 2/5ths of a flamer. Since you would have to lose a bolter to add the flamer and taking into account the other fudging of numbers we have done, we can come up with a reasonable estimate that Soul Blaze will in fact give you at most the same return as 1/2 a flamer. I don't know about you but I would not pay 70 points for a flamer. It is there for character and to add to the narrative. If you get Soul Blaze for something you are going to use anyway, cool. Buying an icon just to get Soul Blaze is not very efficient at all. Paying for mark AND icon is just throwing away points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leth Shyish'phak Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 If you got to place a Soul Blaze counter for every wound caused, and then roll individually for each one then it would be worth it (might even be a bit too good), but as it is it just isn't worth paying for really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d@n Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 may not be so bad on a dakka pred. the warp gargoyle upgrade is pretty cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 The only way that Soul Blaze will give you an effective return on your points investment is if you take multiple units with it and spread the love around. Putting one token down each shooting phase isn't worth it. But if you have multiple Blazing units and fire them all at different targets, you're now generating multiple Blaze rolls and thus you'll be killing more models with it. Now that being said, I do agree with the above posters in saying that the Icon of Flame is trash. It's too many points for what it does, even considering the +1 to combat resolution. Warpflame Gargoyles, on the other hand, are a cheap 5 upgrade that are not a bad choice to put on vehicles that intended to fire at non-vehicles: Vindicators, dakka-Preds, Defilers. Put it on Rhinos that have an extra bolter or a Havoc launcher; keeps 'em cheap and makes them more killy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacinda Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 The only way that Soul Blaze will give you an effective return on your points investment is if you take multiple units with it and spread the love around. For the cost to put MoT and IoF on 3 CSM troops, you can get another CSM squad with a plasmagun. I think gargoyles are the only real option. Which is good, because I don't want to pull the gargoyle heads off of my landraiders' guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 The only way that Soul Blaze will give you an effective return on your points investment is if you take multiple units with it and spread the love around. For the cost to put MoT and IoF on 3 CSM troops, you can get another CSM squad with a plasmagun. I think gargoyles are the only real option. Which is good, because I don't want to pull the gargoyle heads off of my landraiders' guns. Same. I gargoyled up everything. Seems I was prescient 2 editions ago and didn't realize it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 It's only good on the tanks, but there it is decent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Immortals Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 The only way that Soul Blaze will give you an effective return on your points investment is if you take multiple units with it and spread the love around. For the cost to put MoT and IoF on 3 CSM troops, you can get another CSM squad with a plasmagun. I think gargoyles are the only real option. Which is good, because I don't want to pull the gargoyle heads off of my landraiders' guns. Same. I gargoyled up everything. Seems I was prescient 2 editions ago and didn't realize it. Behold the convolution of tzeentch !!! I too stand to profit from his unknowable plans !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Soul Blaze is like Gift of Mutation; give it to everyone or no one. Exaggerated somewhat but that's the short of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 that is not true . GoM makes a champ almost always better . soul blaze be it as a single choice or spamed is always worse then buying extra dudes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Soul Blaze for MoTz-units is nigh-useless, and it's just another kick in the nads for Tzeentch-players. 15 pts for a 1/2 chance of inflicting 2 bolter-hits? Bring out the cheese lads! It's an OK upgrade for vehicles however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 that is not true . GoM makes a champ almost always better . soul blaze be it as a single choice or spamed is always worse then buying extra dudes. Well I didn't say it was better than GoM, just that it works in the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dammeron Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 One of my regular opponents is a Thousand Sons player. In our friendly games, we've upgraded the "Mark of Tzeentch" to provide a 5+ Invulnerable save to units that don't already have an invulnerable save (take it on cultists; quite evil!), and have adapted "Soul Blaze" so that the marker causes D6 wounds rather than D3, which are at +1 strength for every unsaved wound originally caused on the target unit. Far more fun for my Tzeentchian opponent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 again that is not true . soul blaze does not work at all . it just doesnt , its wasted points . boon on the other hand while not opitmal has a chance to buff our asp champions . a +2sv or +1I are a huge buff for an asp champion . not optimal is not the same thing as worthless . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 One of my regular opponents is a Thousand Sons player. In our friendly games, we've upgraded the "Mark of Tzeentch" to provide a 5+ Invulnerable save to units that don't already have an invulnerable save (take it on cultists; quite evil!), and have adapted "Soul Blaze" so that the marker causes D6 wounds rather than D3, which are at +1 strength for every unsaved wound originally caused on the target unit. Far more fun for my Tzeentchian opponent. MoT is only 6++ in units that doesn't already have an invul... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 One of my regular opponents is a Thousand Sons player. In our friendly games, we've upgraded the "Mark of Tzeentch" to provide a 5+ Invulnerable save to units that don't already have an invulnerable save (take it on cultists; quite evil!), and have adapted "Soul Blaze" so that the marker causes D6 wounds rather than D3, which are at +1 strength for every unsaved wound originally caused on the target unit. Far more fun for my Tzeentchian opponent. MoT is only 6++ in units that doesn't already have an invul... Read what he said again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 One of my regular opponents is a Thousand Sons player. In our friendly games, we've upgraded the "Mark of Tzeentch" to provide a 5+ Invulnerable save to units that don't already have an invulnerable save (take it on cultists; quite evil!), and have adapted "Soul Blaze" so that the marker causes D6 wounds rather than D3, which are at +1 strength for every unsaved wound originally caused on the target unit. Far more fun for my Tzeentchian opponent. MoT is only 6++ in units that doesn't already have an invul... Read what he said again. Ah, yes, ofc. I sense it is time to devour my morning coffee... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 again that is not true . soul blaze does not work at all . it just doesnt , its wasted points . boon on the other hand while not opitmal has a chance to buff our asp champions . a +2sv or +1I are a huge buff for an asp champion . not optimal is not the same thing as worthless . I certainly agree there are definitely points that can be better spent than on Soul Blaze. Shame really, because the idea of setting models on fire is great. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Meh, on the subject of MoT I wish it had cost one point extra for marines and cultists compared to now and worked the same way as in 5th. Alas... On the subject of the Icon, its only worth it if your worried about combat resolution (thats what your paying most fo the points for, and not soul blaze), though rarely will that be worth the points. Gargoyles are nice though. It`s point fillers. Will not change the game, but if you have points to spare, this is a decent upgrade on stuff like Predators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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