Khorne armies with the new codex

[Boshea]

So been reading through our new codex, as well as doing comparisons to the previous one. Figured I'd compile all my thoughts together on what we can do with mono-Khorne armies in our new book. A bit of a foreword, I do not claim to be an expert or a hyper competitive player. Still getting used to 6th so I may get a few things wrong, and the new codex could definitely use an errata to clarify some questionable rules. Mostly looking at unit options from both a fluffy perspective and their effectiveness.

Generic things I don't want to repeat in multiple entries

Rhinos-They're cheap, fragile, and either die in your deployment zone or mid-field. In short not much has really changed with them other than being even worse transports for an assault unit. The big appeal I see for them is giving them Dirge Casters to setup charges. They may not be around for the charge, but it'll likely draw fire away from more expensive units.

 

Unit Champions-Unless you're T5 or have a 2+ save take either a power sword or a lightning claw. Claw versus sword comes down to personal preferences of +1A or Shred. If you do have T5 or a 2+ then consider a power fist. Since we need to be in challenges we want to avoid attacking at I1 unless we're likely to live to our initiative. Pretty much every champ can take a combi-weapon now, which is nice if you got a few points kicking around.

 

Icon of Wrath-I don't feel its a mandatory upgrade, but you have points to spare buy them for your dedicated assault units. Assault units live and die by their charge and you want to be able to redo that if necessary. Furious Charge is also nice for guys who don't come stock with it.

 

So first up HQs

 

Khârn-He's still a cool guy to be around, and he's a fair amount more killy than before. The only really big changes are losing 1A to the changes with mark but gaining 1S due to the changes to Gorechild, and giving his unit a 2+ deny the witch. Khârn lives and dies by the first round of combat so I think its a fair trade losing the attack for strength. The deny the witch is also a big plus since its far more effective to simply stop the psychic ability rather than deny one wound from it (or troll lash players).

 

Chaos Lord-You're still usually better off taking Khârn, but the Chaos Lord definitely has his uses. One deceptive thing is that while the base cost of the Lord is cheaper, they do not come with an invul in their stock loadout. I don't see this as a big problem though for two reasons. The first is that you can simply buy him a 4+ invul and he'll cost exactly the same as the previous lord, but have a better save. The second is that if you want to build a Termi-Lord and not buy him the 4+invul he ends up being a few points cheaper. Termi-Lord is still a good option, but a Cav Lord is looking like it'll be a nice option as well. Since the Lord is still a model that wants to get into melee the best options for gear are likely either the Blinding Axe or L.Claw+Fist. It really comes down to quantity versus quality on your attacks. L.Claw+Fist will let you either hit hard at I1 or standard at base initiative, and still lets you keep your WS6. The Blinding Axe will let you get AP2 hits at base initiative, but the drop in WS means that other HQs will now likely hit on 3s and you run the risk of it rebelling on you. If you're willing to splurge and trade an attack, the brand is also a weapon to consider. End of the day Khârn will still likely be your go to first HQ, but the Lord is a nicer option now mainly trading offensive stats for defense and/or mobility at roughly the same point cost

 

Sorcerer-We'll never take them, but I feel the need to say that our Sorcerers are pretty BAMF now.

 

Daemon Prince-The double hit of points and loss of Eternal warrior will make him a hard sell now, but at least a Khorne Daemon Prince isn't a waste of points compared to the other three. He will still definitely wreck anything he gets a charge on, but the points are just hard to justify when a single S10 shot can end him. Brand and Black Mace are likely the best two items to toss on him, and possibly the best delivery system for a Dimensional key if going for that type of list. Wings are also a good purchase on him just to give him better mobility and defenses.

 

Warpsmith-Surprisingly shooty and choppy for the points. He definitely has his uses if you're playgroup is big on fortifications or vehicles. On his own you have to ask if you're not better off taking a Chaos Lord instead, but I think he'd make a good support piece for a Daemon Engine heavy army.

 

Dark Apostle-Cost wise he's equivalent to a Chaos Lord with a power maul and Sigil of Corruption, but has a worse stat-line and several extra rules. Those rules are what you base the question of "Should I just take a Chaos Lord". Beseech the Dark Gods is nice as well as Zealot, but its Demagogue that makes or breaks this guy. If you're going for hordes of cultists then take this guy to wrangle them, otherwise I feel you're better off taking Chaos Lord.

 

Troops

Chaos Space Marines-If you keep them simple, they're cheap MEQ bodies. Just marking them Khorne puts them at roughly 4 points cheaper per guy than a berzerker, but will have -1WS and will not be fearless. Giving them the Fearless Icon will make the squad cheaper by 1.5 per guy, but you run the risk of losing your fearless by poor placement or a precision shot. Personally I wouldn't bother with the Icon since the main appeal of CSM over Berzerkers or Chosen is that they're cheap. If you start adding bells and whistles you may as well just take a different unit who will likely do the job better. The other appeal is that while CSM are less effective in combat compared to berzerkers they can take special weapons which is always good. They're also an excuse to get a dirge caster Rhino.

 

Cultists-They're referred to as Chaos Grots for a reason. Dirt Cheap bodies to either run in front and provide cover or soak wounds, or to sit in the back and hold objectives. As tempting as it is to mark them and try to drown an opponent in attacks they're still just guardsmen with a worse save, so best to keep them cheap and sit them on objectives or screen.

 

Berzerkers-Not much has really changed on the Berzerker other than a point drop due to the changes with our mark. The big downside of this change is that they are very soft to defensive grenades now. Beyond that not much has changed. The big question is whether or not to upgrade to chain axes. Personally I feel the upgrade is only worthwhile if you play against a lot of either Eldar (either flavor), Ork bikers, or possibly blob guard. Regular Ork armor is terrible enough it doesn't make a big difference, Tau are mulch if you assault them with just about anything, and you'll deal out enough wounds on non-blob guard to likely decimate the unit. It helps with Eldar since their higher I means you want to make every wound count against them after their attack. Guard are similar but it just helps you chew through the unit quicker. While bikes are difficult to deal with in the open, taking away their armor in an assault will help you get through them easier. The tough call is Nids since it will let you chew through their units faster, but you still need to be very careful with your assaults on them. Still likely best to transport them in a Raider for easier assaults, with possibly a second wave in Rhinos.

 

Elite

Chosen-They're still just expensive tac marines who can carry more weapons. Now instead of infiltrate they get 2A base. They have potential for a small special squad to crack open and assault transports, but I feel Raptors will do the job better due to greater mobility.

 

Possessed-Another unit that remains fairly unchanged. Their random table is far more forgiving now, and they come stock with fleet. Still not a fan of them personally since Zerks or Termies will likely do their job better,

 

Terminators-They still come in two predominate flavors, Termi-cide and Assault, but you can't currently combine the two styles.

 

Helbrute-I'm conflicted on this model. On one hand he is finally a lot more playable since he only goes crazed when hurt, and he won't target friendlies any more. On the other, he has some stiff competition with the new fiend models for points. His big advantage is that he doesn't take up heavy, which is a very contested FoC spot. He also has better combat stats than both fiends, but does not have the same survivability. He is probably best used for a gun platform since the Maulerfiend's mobility outclasses him for melee combat. Its a tough call though whether he's better than a Forgefiend for fire support though. The higher BS and lower cost will give him a bit of an edge though.

 

Mutilators-I want to like these guys, I really really do, but I think they are just outclassed by other dedicated assault options. They cost almost as much as two terminators or two warp talons after grabbing upgrades for each, and their only advantage over the others is the ability to change weapons every round. Both Termies and Warp Talons will put out more attacks, with Warp Talons also having higher mobility.

Fast Attack

Bikers-Not much has changed other than getting way cheaper, which is really all they needed. With the ability to trade the twin-linked boltgun in to give them a special weapon now, you get a quick hard hitting unit. My only advice would be to keep the unit small since large bike units are very difficult to maneuver.

 

Spawn-Main use I see for them is escorting a cav-lord. Tough call on whether bikes or spawn would do it better. Comes down to fleet and 3w escorts versus escorts with 3+ save, jink, and hammer of wrath.

 

Raptors-Once again another fairly unchanged unit other than a point drop and fear. Another good unit to hunt transports and assault the contents.

 

Warp Talons-Another unit I really want to like, but feel it just doesn't bring enough. They're basically just a raptors that cost twice as much for everyone to have a 5+ and a pair of lightning claws. Their warpflame strike could be the ability that sells them, but with no way other than the key to prevent deep strike scatter you need to make very dangerous deep strikes to get benefit from it. They're also boned if nothing near them is disembarked.

 

Heldrake-Its our only flyer in the book, which means its probably the number one thing every other Fast Attack needs to compete with. The ability to potential kill two vehicles a turn it pretty neat, and it has the same survivability as the other new daemon engines. There is also the option of taking the baleflamer to harass ground troops.

 

Heavy Support

[Odsox]

Warpsmith-Surprisingly shooty and choppy for the points.

 

Fact. Mine repaired a Maulerfiend only to have it get immobilised again, properly lost his cool and charged a ten-man squad of Blood Claws, took out six of them then got hammered by a power fist.

 

Fun!

 

Od.

[Lord of Blades]

My poor little rhino horde... I run a Rhino World Eater list... now it kinda sucks bad... IT is still good if you can rush really fast, and your opponent is running an all infantry army with minimal heavy weapons, but they are a rip off. I was really sad when we didn't get the Dread claws for normal games... I'm still going to make a few using drop-pod kits and run the Apoc version, because I feel like we need them and deserve them.

 

The best thing to do with champions? Run Khârn in a zerker squad. Give the champ a Power Maul. Concuss the challenger, then let Khârn eat him. If Khârn hasn't eaten him before that.

 

I will probably run a icon of wrath in a few of my squads, because I think it adds flavor.

 

Also, just saying... I run a Sorcerer in my World Eaters army list... and it still manages to be fluffy!! >:) It is really easy to make it fluffy if you think about it. Reading the Berzerkers entry in 5th Ed. I remembered reading about Flesh Melders, or the guys that do the psycho-surgery on the zerkers. I then looked through 6th edition psychic powers and decided that Biomancy and Slaanesh powers are perfect for this. The Sorcerer would be the "Flesh Melder" and be psycho conditioning the zerkers during combat. To represent him on the field, I gave him a force axe and a narthrecium on the model, to make him look more Flesh Melder-y I haven't painted him yet, but I think that he'll turn out ok. And, it's sort of fluffy... I just needed a unit that could buff me the entire game, and a Sorcerer with Biomancy and Slaanesh disciplines is perfect for that. Any thoughts on that?

[Emperors Immortals]

KILL MAIM BURN!!!!! apart from that I'm thinking of a sorcerer myself, my slaaneshi horde get a huge boostvfrom one, and waaaay back there was fluff about khorne chaplain type guys AND the librarians used to do the kill tallies, so there is a few reasons already :D

[Lord of Blades]

KILL MAIM BURN!!!!! apart from that I'm thinking of a sorcerer myself, my slaaneshi horde get a huge boostvfrom one, and waaaay back there was fluff about khorne chaplain type guys AND the librarians used to do the kill tallies, so there is a few reasons already :D

 

Agreed. I mean, Mostly, I only use a sorcerer to buff up my infantry. They are really good for that now. There are also a TON of ways you can implement them legally fluff wise

[Cheex]

Chaos Lord-You're still usually better off taking Khârn, but the Chaos Lord definitely has his uses. One deceptive thing is that while the base cost of the Lord is cheaper, they do not come with an invul in their stock loadout. I don't see this as a big problem though for two reasons. The first is that you can simply buy him a 4+ invul and he'll cost exactly the same as the previous lord, but have a better save. The second is that if you want to build a Termi-Lord and not buy him the 4+invul he ends up being a few points cheaper. Termi-Lord is still a good option, but a Cav Lord is looking like it'll be a nice option as well. Since the Lord is still a model that wants to get into melee the best options for gear are likely either the Blinding Axe or L.Claw+Fist. It really comes down to quantity versus quality on your attacks. L.Claw+Fist will let you either hit hard at I1 or standard at base initiative, and still lets you keep your WS6. The Blinding Axe will let you get AP2 hits at base initiative, but the drop in WS means that other HQs will now likely hit on 3s and you run the risk of it rebelling on you. If you're willing to splurge and trade an attack, the brand is also a weapon to consider. End of the day Khârn will still likely be your go to first HQ, but the Lord is a nicer option now mainly trading offensive stats for defense and/or mobility at roughly the same point cost

While I agree that Khârn is awesome for his points, there are some things that a Chaos Lord can do that he simply can't. Riding a bike or juggernaut being chief amongst them, both of which are great choices now. Juggernauts being cavalry is a seriously awesome upgrade that cannot really be understated.

 

Dark Apostle-Cost wise he's equivalent to a Chaos Lord with a power maul and Sigil of Corruption, but has a worse stat-line and several extra rules. Those rules are what you base the question of "Should I just take a Chaos Lord". Beseech the Dark Gods is nice as well as Zealot, but its Demagogue that makes or breaks this guy. If you're going for hordes of cultists then take this guy to wrangle them, otherwise I feel you're better off taking Chaos Lord.

I think you're also underestimating the fun of the Zealot rule. He's a great character if you want to give a unit Hatred without taking Khârn as your warlord. The one thing that is stopping me from taking one is that he can't take a bike or jump pack, so he ends up being best tossed into a Land Raider with some assault unit or, as you suggest, running with a blob of Cultists anyway.

[Killax]

Nice little sum up! I guess I agree on most parts. The things that make 6th altough should not be forgotten for starting Khorne Players;

- Shooting is better than Assaulting, I think if you want to play a full assault army, Nids or Orks is the better option. CSM are great vs Marines but due to limited numbers (even with cultists) you should not expect to be able to handle everything.

- 2+ Saves are epic, Khornate Mutilators or Terminators should be able to wreck some stuff up. I love my Bezerkers but the Terminators and Mutilators seem better at cracking MEQ where the Bezerkers can be insane vs large non MEQ hordes, in special with the Chainaxe.

 

At this moment I am willing to play Khârn, on the other hand I also want to play 2 Lords with huge meat mob Cultists (Gladiators) who will act as a counter assault part of the army or just go all in with the Lords doing a massive ammount of slaughter.

 

More to come!

 

Cheers,

[Excessus]

Lord+apostle with 8 MoK chosen in a LR, with one 35-blob MoK cultists on either side as bubblewrap. You count the 6" for demagouge from the hull, right? B)

[Bearingtheword]

My poor little rhino horde... I run a Rhino World Eater list... now it kinda sucks bad... IT is still good if you can rush really fast, and your opponent is running an all infantry army with minimal heavy weapons, but they are a rip off. I was really sad when we didn't get the Dread claws for normal games... I'm still going to make a few using drop-pod kits and run the Apoc version, because I feel like we need them and deserve them.

 

The best thing to do with champions? Run Khârn in a zerker squad. Give the champ a Power Maul. Concuss the challenger, then let Khârn eat him. If Khârn hasn't eaten him before that.

 

I will probably run a icon of wrath in a few of my squads, because I think it adds flavor.

 

Also, just saying... I run a Sorcerer in my World Eaters army list... and it still manages to be fluffy!! >;) It is really easy to make it fluffy if you think about it. Reading the Berzerkers entry in 5th Ed. I remembered reading about Flesh Melders, or the guys that do the psycho-surgery on the zerkers. I then looked through 6th edition psychic powers and decided that Biomancy and Slaanesh powers are perfect for this. The Sorcerer would be the "Flesh Melder" and be psycho conditioning the zerkers during combat. To represent him on the field, I gave him a force axe and a narthrecium on the model, to make him look more Flesh Melder-y I haven't painted him yet, but I think that he'll turn out ok. And, it's sort of fluffy... I just needed a unit that could buff me the entire game, and a Sorcerer with Biomancy and Slaanesh disciplines is perfect for that. Any thoughts on that?

 

 

Really liking that Flesh Melder idea. May end up borrowing it for my Skulltaker's force I have in the works....

 

~BtW

[Lord of Blades]

My poor little rhino horde... I run a Rhino World Eater list... now it kinda sucks bad... IT is still good if you can rush really fast, and your opponent is running an all infantry army with minimal heavy weapons, but they are a rip off. I was really sad when we didn't get the Dread claws for normal games... I'm still going to make a few using drop-pod kits and run the Apoc version, because I feel like we need them and deserve them.

 

The best thing to do with champions? Run Khârn in a zerker squad. Give the champ a Power Maul. Concuss the challenger, then let Khârn eat him. If Khârn hasn't eaten him before that.

 

I will probably run a icon of wrath in a few of my squads, because I think it adds flavor.

 

Also, just saying... I run a Sorcerer in my World Eaters army list... and it still manages to be fluffy!! >:) It is really easy to make it fluffy if you think about it. Reading the Berzerkers entry in 5th Ed. I remembered reading about Flesh Melders, or the guys that do the psycho-surgery on the zerkers. I then looked through 6th edition psychic powers and decided that Biomancy and Slaanesh powers are perfect for this. The Sorcerer would be the "Flesh Melder" and be psycho conditioning the zerkers during combat. To represent him on the field, I gave him a force axe and a narthrecium on the model, to make him look more Flesh Melder-y I haven't painted him yet, but I think that he'll turn out ok. And, it's sort of fluffy... I just needed a unit that could buff me the entire game, and a Sorcerer with Biomancy and Slaanesh disciplines is perfect for that. Any thoughts on that?

 

 

Really liking that Flesh Melder idea. May end up borrowing it for my Skulltaker's force I have in the works....

 

~BtW

 

Haha ok! Go for it! I mean, We may me psycho maniacs, but we have a few "sane" people... So I think having Sorcerers as Flesh MElders works and will add some flavor to the armies.

[Killax]

No Sorcery in my Khornate army, never, if I must go that route I would play WFB.

 

For me, it's 2 cheap lords with huge mobs of 'Gladiators' willing to give their lives in order to perhaps be selected for "Marine-hood".

 

Cheers,

[Boshea]

No Sorcery in my Khornate army, never, if I must go that route I would play WFB.

 

For me, it's 2 cheap lords with huge mobs of 'Gladiators' willing to give their lives in order to perhaps be selected for "Marine-hood".

 

Cheers,

True mono-khorne in 40k isn't suicidal like it is in WFB. In WFB you basically have to give up an entire phase of your turn (meaning you ignore two phases of the game unless taking a Hellcannon) along with losing the defense against your opponent's magic phase. In 40k you give up a potential buff or two and some minor psychic defense for one unit. Unless it was a very low point game I wouldn't try doing mono-Khorne in WFB ever again. Anything past 1500 and you start seeing lvl3+ wizards which are very hard to dispel only using your army, along with lack of a dispel scroll to counter non-IF "no saves allowed" spells which are more likely to appear due to higher level wizards. You also lose the MoT+Banner of Rage combo, which I'm a big fan of personally.

 

Going to try and get the other FoC slots added in tonight.

[Killax]

No Sorcery in my Khornate army, never, if I must go that route I would play WFB.

 

For me, it's 2 cheap lords with huge mobs of 'Gladiators' willing to give their lives in order to perhaps be selected for "Marine-hood".

 

Cheers,

True mono-khorne in 40k isn't suicidal like it is in WFB. In WFB you basically have to give up an entire phase of your turn (meaning you ignore two phases of the game unless taking a Hellcannon) along with losing the defense against your opponent's magic phase. In 40k you give up a potential buff or two and some minor psychic defense for one unit. Unless it was a very low point game I wouldn't try doing mono-Khorne in WFB ever again. Anything past 1500 and you start seeing lvl3+ wizards which are very hard to dispel only using your army, along with lack of a dispel scroll to counter non-IF "no saves allowed" spells which are more likely to appear due to higher level wizards. You also lose the MoT+Banner of Rage combo, which I'm a big fan of personally.

 

Going to try and get the other FoC slots added in tonight.

 

Not to get to offtopic (this is a 40K forum and all) but yes! I also miss the days where MoK units would add a dispel dice. If that was still the case we could at leasy muster some/a good defence. The main reason I went more and more to 40K was because of this. Now there is a use of psycic powers in 40K but its better toned within the game. That is now, perhaps it will be different in 5-8 years.

 

As mentioned I will go further into the tactica this topic was about.

 

A thing I like to point out is that I will use VotlW as a semi MoK. The Hatred is also an aspect of Khorne so if your not able to miss the same ammount of points, don't be shy to use VotlW as a simple but effective replacement.

 

I also intent to make a "uniter" within my army along with fluff mentioning Fabrikus our own little Fabius Bile.

 

Cheers,