20 Berzerkers

[Montuhotep]

Okay, since we can take a lovely twenty axe-wielding loonies in one go, I have to ask has anyone done it?

 

If so, what are your thoughts? Too unwieldy or a sledgehammer?

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

Too unwieldy IMO.

 

Thirteen, max.

[Schultzhoffen]

I've seen it. Man, did that Vindicator have fun...

 

...One of my other armies is (was) Black Templars (in 4th Ed) and I regularly ran 20 man squads. They were a pain to move around and fairly clear-cut targets (although I did have 3 squads of RZ Zealots!). One large 20 man squad says "Kill me" like nothing else. Believe me, people will oblige.

 

The unit is too expensive for a distraction, quite slow and too large to get total cover saves.

 

Maybe in a Huron list?

 

Your army will have to be build around those 20 guys and how to get them to do something.

[Emperors Immortals]

I ran them with cultist screen contemptor assist and a 14 strong votlw bolted squad, absolutely wrecked face combined the "red tide" destroyed 2 tac squads tied a termite squad for 2 turns then crashed into IG blobs. Wish I took the axe in retrospect, next time ill take 2 14 mman squads 20 havoks with plasma and a good lord/sorcerer.

[Lord of Blades]

I agree with all of the above. 20 zerkers screams "SHOOT ME" almost as loud as a Land Raider with terminators. You better have either Huron, or a Land Raider Spartan if you want to get them up close in assault. IMHO you waste points for something that will get eaten apart quickly. I have never seen anyone (at least at the place I game) play any chaos space marine squad (thousand sons, plague marines, zerkers etc.) over 10 man squads. I think that it is just the way to go. I have a list with 3 10 man zerkers in rhinos (yes, I know rhinos suck) and 1 9 man with Khârn in it. I also have a squad of 9 chosen with a Sorcerer (it is fluffy, just read my comment here: Link ) It ends up being a pretty good list against infantry armies with minimal heavy weapons, and I don't even need those 30 man squads. I have tried it though... bad game... I had GUARDSMEN kill them... 50 rapidfiring guardsmen with straken and 3 heavy weapons teams with autocannons... I recommend sticking with 10 man and 9 man squads. Save your points for something that will help you like a Helbrute or another squad of zerkers

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

Please don't call it a 'red tide'.

[Cheex]

I don't like big squads of any Khorne unit in this edition, to be honest. If you charge a single enemy squad, then they'll probably wipe them out; if you multi-charge, then you lose every bonus you get for being a Khorne follower. Larger squads suit other Marks of Chaos better for this reason, IMHO. The only benefit over having two smaller squads is that you save points on the Champion and Icon, which isn't enough to justify it IMHO unless you're running out of Troops slots (which is unlikely).

[Muskie]

I've seen the BFTBG charge, I've even started painting my own version, but under the current rules I think Khorne Raptors make a lot of sense. Squads of Power Armored troops 20 large ineffably become a huge target and take several turns to cross difficult terrain. If you're building an all comers list for a tournament, squads that large will not work for all tables, all missions, vs all opponents. Cultists, orks, or little bugs work better because they are cheaper. 20 cultists is 100 points, I think that has two flamers in it. That is the squad I plan to paint towards. Even in a 1500 point list 100 points is a shrug.

 

20 bezerkers is at least 400 points. That is a third of your army.

 

If you got the bucks and the balls you could load 20 Bezerkers into a Storm Eagle. I'm going to get one of those and try that someday, but again cultists are cheaper. The Storm Eagle is 200+ points empty, so that is 600 or more points that could disappear in a single shot, heck just having that much of your army delays in some manner is a big disadvantage.

 

10 Bezerkers + 10 Raptors will work better than one squad of 20 Bezerkers. Throw in some trully affordable troops AKA cultists then run across the board screaming. Put the Cultists in front, then the Bezerkers, then the Raptors, run everything. Then in turn two leap over the other two squads and charge with the Raptors, hopefully mostly Cultists will have died, the Raptors can engage the enemy for a turn and the relatively fresh Bezerkers can then kill, kill, kill.

 

Throw in some Chaos Spawn or Deep Striking Terminators or even a walker or two. I'm not sure it is a winning strategy, but Raptors and Cultists will help Bezerkers reach the enemy lines more than more Bezerkers. Pie plates will ruin your day.

[Fulminata]

Yes, I have used 20 Berzerkers as both a troops choice and now an elite choice. If they survive any shooting phases, then whatever they assault will die, garenteed. I have used them in a small game, 1500 points against vanilla marines, each round they assaulted into another squad and destroyed them. They cost me one third of my army cost, but they were well worth it. I used them in a larger game against the Tau and within one round were destroyed to the man in the first round by 3 squads of fire warriors.

 

20 berzerkers are worth it to me.

[Canadin]

Because Khârn makes his squad fearless, I am saving some points by running him with 20 CSM MoKhorne with a banner.

 

As long as they are together all you lose is WS5, while saving 4 points per model and getting 2 melta guns.

 

So far they are 20 extra wounds for Khârn, as he 1 shots any charge target before they do anything. More play testing will be necessary to judge usefulness of 20 man escort squad.

 

In general though it IS above my squad size comfort level. And it yells blast me

[Tzimisce169]

A few years ago I ran 2 squads of 20 berzerkers straight up the middle of the field. My opponent couldn't bring enough guns to bear to do significant damage and within 2 turns I was on him. The game ended shortly after with him being tabled.

[Killax]

A few years ago I ran 2 squads of 20 berzerkers straight up the middle of the field. My opponent couldn't bring enough guns to bear to do significant damage and within 2 turns I was on him. The game ended shortly after with him being tabled.

 

Sometimes this happens!

 

Sometimes you meet to many Vindicators.

 

Cheers,

[Tenebris]

Well as a long time Imperial Guard player I am used to field squads of twenty models minimum but when comes to Space Marines I advocate squads up to ten models. The reasoning behind this is that first you are more flexible when comes to cover and line of sight, second the SM usually pack a proper punch even in smaller units, third the more marines you have in a squad the more this squad becomes a fire magnet for all those nasty template and area weapons.

 

In the games I have played so far with the Chaos Marines I have seen the basic squad of ten models perform reasonably well and the squad of eight berzerkers too. I prefer to give my opponent an ample target selection so I can reasonably hope that some of my squads will eventually get trough. All in all our strategy is simple and thus effective, rush across the board, get into melee and begin the slaughter. To do this effectively I have learned from my years as a Guard commander that it is always better to rush several smaller squads than a big one toward the enemy guns. First the enemy has to focus on a single unit at a time to use the shooting turn effectively, second the squads provide cover to each other and can better move around from objective to objective, third a small squad is way more responsive to the situation on the ground than a larger one.

 

Berzerkers can and will eat a ton of fire but even if four or five get trough it is more than enough to spill some blood in Khorne's name, afterall it is four attacks per model on the charge with rerolls in the first turn when we face space marines.