Codex Marines : Tactics and Thoughts on Infantry Based Armie

[UltraTacSgt]

I am fairly new and play Codex SM. I prefer using more infantry based armies and so started this thread to give people a place to toss out random advice and experience in relation to footslogging and infantry based SM armies (as opposed to armored/dread/flier lists).

 

I currently have 750 pts of pretty basic Marine troops, (Capt/Tacs/Devs/Assault/Scouts/one Rhino) and I'd like to build my army along a more ground pounding theme. I'm thinking 10 man blocks of Tac Termies, more Tac squads, etc. Though I would entertain the thought of a bike squad or some kind of armor if you can make a good argument for it.

 

If you have experience playing as or against footslogging infantry type Codex SM lists feel free to crack an egg of knowledge onto this thread as far as strengths/weaknesses, or other general things that should be considered by a newish player planning on eventually stomping a half company of Marines down the throat of his foes.

[spartan249]

Why stop at half company? A full company is doable, even if it is bare bones. You will need an answer to fliers, but for the most part, you'll be relatively ok against most lists out there.

[Zedrenael]

Talking about a full company that is running into the 2k range:

 

Captain - 100

Command Squad - 115

Tactical Squad w/ ML/HB/MM, Flamer - 170

Tactical Squad w/ ML/HB/MM, Flamer - 170

Tactical Squad w/ ML/HB/MM, Flamer - 170

Tactical Squad w/ ML/HB/MM, Flamer - 170

Tactical Squad w/ ML/HB/MM, Flamer - 170

Tactical Squad w/ ML/HB/MM, Flamer - 170

Assault Squad - 190

Assault Squad - 190

Devastator Squad - 170

Devastator Squad - 170

 

Total: 1955

[I_Heart_69]

You could definitely run the above, and it'd be hard to kill all those damn marines, but you're going to be a little lost against tough vehicles, especially flyers. TEQ may also give you a problem. If it were me, I'd prefer to run half a company with a few more tools and supporting units. A pair of Stormtalons and a pair of Predators would definitely help those weaknesses.

[UltraTacSgt]

I don't want to go crazy w/ my list and get this thread moved but I run a RB/AA Captain who I sometimes use as a CM for the orbital strike. A PW/PC/Flamer/Rhino Tac squad, combat squad w/ the flamer half w/ the captain in the Rhino as a counter charge. Sniper scouts w/ HB. 7 man Devastators w/ 3ML/1LC. These guys are the core of my Army.

Also available or newly acquired are 5 Tac Terms w/ a Assault Cannon, 5 Assault marines, 5 Sternguard possibly w/ HB, 10 more Tac Marines (thinking PG/MM or HB), and a Librarian.

 

I really like the idea of running essentially a half company of Space Marines one day as I expand my collection. However, I am conflicted as to whether or not the units I have will be viable if I put them all together and go up to higher points levels. In the 750-1000 range I am in right now I haven't (in my limited number of games) run into anything too crazy.

 

I prefer a gunline-ish playstyle with my units kept closely supporting each other. As far as wargear, I like things that give me weight of dice and make opponents roll saves (HB's, Assault Cannon, tons of shooting units in general).

I feel like having so many medium ranged threats gives a lot of target priority issues to a foe because there is no unit that is the lynch pin in my plans.

 

I have been thinking about acquiring/proxying some drop pods and dropping my Stern and a Tac squad w/ PG/HB or MM followed by my deepstriking Tac Terms to make a sudden and intense firebase. My idea would be to force my opponent to choose between my main force or my drop force and shred him from both sides until he does.

 

Assuming of course that I can balance out abilities by spreading meltas/flamers etc. throughout my force, are there any blaring weaknesses to an army w/ this sort of composition?

[spartan249]

I hesitate to call anything short of a lysander accompanied sternguard squad an intense firebase, but the concept does work adequately given you soften them up beforehand. You will get wiped occasionally using this tactic though, as some want you to do exactly that.

[Kevin48220]

I'm also pretty new to things, and running a Codex Marines army at present. I'm looking at a lot of the same issues you are, and for now, I'm running a good amount of infantry. So far, my results have been more or less along the lines suggested here--they play pretty well against most things, but have a hard time with flying units. I'm adding an aegis defense line with quad cannon to try to shore up the line a bit more.

 

My tactics/list building question would be: what is the consensus on using Dreadnoughts in an infantry-based army? I've been running general purpose Dreads in the last two lists I've played (basic dreads with MM/CCW outfitted) and not had much luck.

 

My thought was that as a walker, they could serve as both a vehicle and a scoring unit, and work well thematically with a more ground-based army. You also get the versatility of having both ranged and CC options. But, they've been chewed up pretty well. I'm wondering if it's simply a question of running a different set of options on them, switching to Ironclads, or if the Dreadnoughts are simply less than useful in the 6th edition meta?

[spartan249]

Dreadnoughts have never really been good in any edition. They have a relatively mediocre damage output across all phases, and they're still not exactly great for the slot they eat up. At lower point level games, Dreadnoughts can be passable as a weapon system, but medium to high level games usually magnify just how bad Dreadnoughts are.

 

It's a shame, as the model looks both comical and cool at the same time. As much as I tried to make it work for me, they simply can't compete with the other choices you have in Elites/Heavy Support.

[Brother Navaer Solaq]

Dreadnoughts have never really been good in any edition. They have a relatively mediocre damage output across all phases, and they're still not exactly great for the slot they eat up. At lower point level games, Dreadnoughts can be passable as a weapon system, but medium to high level games usually magnify just how bad Dreadnoughts are.

 

what is a medium level game anyways?

 

So would a sternguard squad be better than dreadnought versus monsterous creatures in an infantry based army?

[Kevin48220]

I'm no expert, but it does seem that a Sternguard unit would give you some advantages. It can hold an objective, and I think it would do pretty decently against most any monstrous creature. A 5-man unit (or more) would give you a good amount of firepower, and the special ammunition provides flexibility in response. Plus, you can add on plasma, melta, and missile weapons if necessary.

 

Well, I'm sold. I'm going to try running a squad of these guys instead of my dreadnought in my next list and see how it goes.

[Mannyu78]

Sternguard are very flexible and dangerous to your enemy.

 

Pathfinders/Scouts/Jetpikes with high cover saves - Dragonfire and Heavy Flamers. This is my new favorite tactic.

MEQs - Vengence Rounds

Monsterous Creatures - Hellfire Rounds will likely take out first turn

Vehicles - Combi-Meltas!

Then if you want to play like Tau - Kraken Bolts 30" Rapid Fire AP4

 

Having a drop pod of 10 of these guys show up turn 1 will make your opponent switch strategy.

 

These guys are what I consider the premire space marine. IMO, they are a must in any list.

[Kevin48220]

Mannyu78--thanks for the tips. I was looking at the codex and wondering about the best uses for the special ammo on Sternguard. Your list is a big help!

 

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I was reading an article on the new Chaos SM codex over at BOLS, and it contained what I thought was a pretty good list of priorities for army lists in 6th edition. I grant that this was written in the context of a Chaos SM discussion, but it looks like a decent 'nuts and bolts' overview of what every army needs to worry about in relation to the missions laid out in the BRB.

 

"Reliably score objectives. 5 of 6 missions are about taking objectives.

Take on light mech spam. MSU shooty mech lists are alive and well.

Take on hordes. You need to be able to fight Horde Orks, Gant Farms and horde infantry lists. We’re seeing a lot of no-vehicle lists doing quite well and they’ve always been great spoiler armies.

Take on heavy infantry. You also need a plan for dealing with Terminators, etc.

Counter Flyers. Air Force armies are everywhere right now, plan for them or be run over by them.

Counter Deathstars (yes, they still exist). Harliestar is still brutal, and Paladins, while diminished, are still a very real threat amongst some of the other crazy units out there.

Take on heavy vehicles. Leman Russes and similar beastly tanks are back in a big way, and if all you’ve got are Auto Cannons and Plasma Guns, kiss your butt goodbye."

 

[original post @ BOLS here: http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2012/10/cha...-continued.html]

 

It's a lot, and I'm pretty sure that most units cannot do all of those things. But, we C:SM players do have a very flexible and reliable codex. My thinking is that infantry-based lists can contain units that can reliably fulfill at least 2-3 things on that list each. Enough variety of units would enable a C:SM list to at least have a chance with what's listed there.

 

What does everyone think of this list in terms of priorities in list building? Could a ground-pounding infantry company (i.e., little to no vehicles/armor/etc.) deal with it?

[Gideon999]

If you are going to use dreads, the rifleman pattern (two twin linked autocannon arms) is still the most flexible and useful in my opinion. The days of dreads wading into close combat and slowly picking the guys apart are gone. With Grenades usable in melee, and hull points now lost with glancing hits mixed with the "we can't hurt it" rule, they are NOT for melee at all. Even an ironclad in a pod is just so much wreckage after you eat a turn of shooting.

 

You can use other versions, but for the accuracy, reliable stopping power against all but very heavy armour, and the good cost points wise its the best option out there (again in my opinion, YMMV).

[GarretAsh]

I have an army much like yours ,and against Flyers a rapid fire tactical squad (10 man Flamer and Missile 170P) can put a cheap (and somehow effective) dent in your enemy's flyers , sure it´s not the best option but for 170 point it can hold objectives , hold its own is combat against other races rank and file troopers and make your opponent think twice to get its flyers near your tactical squad , in the worst situation they can be used as bait (with cover and by going to the ground )until you can get some heavy bolter's in range .

 

A good devastator squad is great if they come with the heavy bolter's to get a better chance of hitting then , put a signum in the serge to help.

 

I play against my girls orks , until the 6th edition they would stand no chances , but now the ork deffkoptas really help make a difference.

[maturin]

Kevin - Dreads aren't scoring units, unless you take them as HS and roll the Big Guns mission. Too bad....

 

GarretAsh - The tactic you describe is only good against AV10 flyers, and there are a lot more AV11 & 12 flyers around than AV10...

 

Has anyone had experience using assault squads as the rapid reaction/mobility part of an infantry force?

[templargdt]

I think you will find C:SM players mostly passing on assault marine squads. They frankly are not very good at their role of assault. If you combine a AM squad with a Chaplain and a tricked out Sgt you might have something passable, but I think most folks are taking other units in the FA slot. I can honestly say I have never seen an AM squad on a table outside of a Blood Angels list in 4 years.

[Kevin48220]

maturin--thanks for the correction on that. I'm just glad I haven't had the chance to embarrass myself trying to use one to hold an objective. :P

 

I'm not sure about assault squads either. I love the idea of them, but I have not had much luck with them so far. Granted, I've only played a few games and I'm not as experienced as most people posting here. I found them quite useful against lightly armored infantry. Who knows? With Chaos Cultists being all the rage now, they might have more uses now.

[UltraTacSgt]

What is everyone's opinions on Tactical Terminators in an all/mostly foot list. Kitted w/ an Assault Cannon and Chainfist in a 5 man team and deep striking onto a weak flank or piece of armor. The idea would be to let them pepper infantry w/ the cannon/bolters and/or advance into melee w/ a troublesome piece of armor. Aside from getting plasma'd to death they should be able to really throw a wrench into the enemies plans.

 

A possible variation would be to drop pod, w/locator beacon, in a 5-6 man Sternguard w/ combi's or a 10 man Tac squad depending on the enemy and tactical needs of the game. The pod squad could do anything from suicide melta w/ the Sterns, to dropping appropriately equipped Tacs onto an out of the way objective, to just putting a unit onto a weaker unit of the enemies.

 

Also in consideration is deep striking in a bare bones or Terminator Librarian (additional HQ) or 5 man Assault squad either barebones w/ MB's or maybe w/ PW along w/ the Terms to make a sort of wild card group.

 

Whatever the case, either the Tac Terms or the Pod/Terms should be able to put some damage on a target of my choosing pretty reliably. The main idea of it all would be to give me a highly mobile and versatile combo to complement a low mobility, infantry based list; and to give me something to act on any weakness presented by different foes.

[Krishar]

The times I've played with infantry heavy lists so far in 6th I've really had a lack of mobility, it might be a bigger issue than in general due to me mainly playing against the blasted Dark Eldar who just run around your footsloggers in circles and then race out to grab objectives in last 2 turns, especially with 4-5 objectives foot armies have a hard time actually reaching, and then keeping enough of them at the end of round 5. So I think you either need some transports, or some other form of mobile firepower to not be left behind in the dust completely against some armies.

[Brother Navaer Solaq]

Adding another question to this post.

 

Using a BA codex would help the infantry survive longer as they foot-slog towards the enemy right? FNP bubble.

The only assumption is hopefully the other player is not fielding a lot of 2xS weapons...

 

Has anyone tired this with against another marine army?

 

@UltraTacSgt

If you choose to field tact terminators then always field 10 as you need the extra bodies to protect your special weapons and use them as screening unit against high STR weapons.

 

If you are going to deep strike a unit as a clog in enemies plan use Legion of Damned. 3+ invulnerable save. Costly, but they will survive better against in-your-face-plasma reaction. And they can shoot a MM if they survive. Seahawk has some ideas. This plays well in an infantry based army.

 

The sig below this has the link for convenience. ;)