Noise Marines in undivided context

[The Prophet]

There are some threads about Noise Marines (NM) in our neighbour subforum (Rules, Tactics)

 

 

But I'm interested in how to use NM's i an army with no restrictions on which marks or daemons to use. How do you equipp your NM? How do you field them?

 

I can see three different unit types that could be interesting:

 

 

 

A ) 10-20 man unit. All that can take sonic blasters. If the squad is large, have the FNP-banner (maybe on the champion for Look Out Sire?).

 

B ) 15-20 man unit. Change bolters for CCW's and add a FNP-banner and a beefed up champion with Doom Siren, Lightning Claw and Gift of Mutation. Fearless and FNP squad with a nasty leader for doing assault, but avoiding enemy terminators.

 

C ) 10 man unit. 1 blastmaster. A fearless unit close to an objective in your own deployment zone that can counter enemy fortification holders.

 

 

 

* Is it better with a combination of any above. For what reason? Or something completely different?

 

* How do you deploy and field them?

 

* How are you using you NM's in conjunction to other units? For example, to have a wall of zombies in front of them, taking advantage of the fact that their sonic weapons ignore cover? Or do you infiltrate those 19/20 sonic blasters with Huron? Or what do you do? How do you make them good?

 

 

 

 

(This is not a thread about IF you should have NM's or not, it's about HOW you would field them, if someone was asking with a gun in your mouth.)

[Lepaca]

A ) 10-20 man unit. All that can take sonic blasters. If the squad is large, have the FNP-banner (maybe on the champion for Look Out Sire?).

 

A 10 man blaster squad seems good.

Place one of your objectives in the midfield, walk them up turn 1 and stay there and shoot for the rest of the game.

Maybe even add a Doom Siren for Overwatch goodness.

Btw you can't place the icons on champs anymore AFAIK.

 

B ) 15-20 man unit. Change bolters for CCW's and add a FNP-banner and a beefed up champion with Doom Siren, Lightning Claw and Gift of Mutation. Fearless and FNP squad with a nasty leader for doing assault, but avoiding enemy terminators.

 

Noise Marines seem to me to be quite good at CC!

A BP/CCW Noise Marine is only 2 points more than a basic CSM with the same equipment and Mark of Slaanesh and they get build in fearless, which can't be sniped.

Doom Siren on the champ might be good but I wouldn't buy any other upgrades as he will still only have 2 attacks (unless you buy him a plasma pistol) + Champion of Chaos will force him to die enter a challenge he can't survive sooner or later.

 

C ) 10 man unit. 1 blastmaster. A fearless unit close to an objective in your own deployment zone that can counter enemy fortification holders.

 

A lot of kind of expensive ablative wounds for one special weapon. Not a good idea IMO.

IF however it get's clarified in the FAQ that the "one blastmaster per 10 models" actually does mean that you could build 5-man blastmaster-squads it would be more viable.

 

Sticking something in front of them for cover can be a good idea against anything AP3 or lower but IMO isn't really necessary.

 

EDIT: hung-over spelling mistakes

[minigun762]

I've talked and thought a lot about this and I haven't reached a concrete conclusion myself. Some of the challenges I've come across are:

#1 I5 feels wasted on a shooting squad but new "salvo" weapon type doesn't promote mixed shooting & assault

#2 Champion is unable to equip either a sonic blaster or a basic CCW. This means he can't help much in a shooting squad and he's limited to specialist weapons in assault.

#3 The only difference between noise marines decked out for assault and MoS CSMs is the ability to take doom siren and I am torn on how effective that is compared to a pair of normal flamers.

#4 Blastmaster still doesn't mix well with the other weapons. To use it for max effect, you want to be at range and static and its too similar to the loyalist problem of 10 guys sitting around to fire one heavy weapon, but we don't have access to combat squads to help it.

 

 

In the end, I think my preferred way of using them will be as sonic blaster ranged support. 6-10 guys holding an objective or using an aegis line somewhere off the front lines. I am leaning towards this mostly because the ability to deny cover saves at range is fairly unique and the volume of firepower they can put out will thin hordes quickly and even threaten terminators on foot.

[Iron Sage]

To me, both assault and fire roles, seems to be more than decent for the noise boys.

 

If I ever were to field noise I would go for designated fire support unit type though, since as minigun says, this is their unique field where they are unrivaled by anyone else.

 

Sonic marines will do very well, I can immagine, with Huron as warlord. Inflitrating them forward into cover, and sit there and fire fusilade after fusilade.

[Lepaca]

#3 The only difference between noise marines decked out for assault and MoS CSMs is the ability to take doom siren and I am torn on how effective that is compared to a pair of normal flamers.

 

The other difference being the fact that they have fearless. Which is a really good special rule to have if you're a CC unit.

[minigun762]

#3 The only difference between noise marines decked out for assault and MoS CSMs is the ability to take doom siren and I am torn on how effective that is compared to a pair of normal flamers.

 

The other difference being the fact that they have fearless. Which is a really good special rule to have if you're a CC unit.

 

I factored that in assuming the CSMs took IoV, but its more expensive and not as safe as native fearless.

An arguement could be made that Noise Marines can be fearless and have FnP though.

[Iron Sage]

#3 The only difference between noise marines decked out for assault and MoS CSMs is the ability to take doom siren and I am torn on how effective that is compared to a pair of normal flamers.

 

The other difference being the fact that they have fearless. Which is a really good special rule to have if you're a CC unit.

 

I factored that in assuming the CSMs took IoV, but its more expensive and not as safe as native fearless.

An arguement could be made that Noise Marines can be fearless and have FnP though.

 

Ws 4, T 4, I 5. FNP and Fearless is surely not to be considered "bad" though?

 

I mean, they are not that expensive now either.

[A D-B]

(This is not a thread about IF you should have NM's or not, it's about HOW you would field them, if someone was asking with a gun in your mouth.)

 

I'd max out with a doom siren, blastmaster, and sonic blasters in a unit of 10, backed by a Rhino with a havoc launcher, combi-melta and warpflame gargoyles. The champion would have a power weapon. I'd probably slap them behind an Aegis Defence Line, close to midfield, or just roll them up with my Berserkers and Bikers.

 

No matter what warband I was playing, they'd be the same Slaanesh-touched, sense-numbed sybarites that feel pain and sound and pleasure, and need such harsh extremes to feel any real emotion at all. But the focus would be different, depending on the warband.

 

If I played:

 

Death Guard - I wouldn't use Noise Marines.

 

World Eaters - I wouldn't use them, either.

 

Night Lords - The squad would be channelling mad sounds of discordant foulness to disorient their enemies (which the squad would find hilarious), and to terrify their foes before they tore them to pieces. They'd likely care nothing for Slaanesh or acknowledge the god at all, but they'd slowly come to enjoy the mad sounds and their emotional range would become blunt and dull. Like most Night Lords, they'd relish inflicting pain and terror on weaker foes, but they'd add the pleasure of their ravaged hearing to that, finding subtle, sneering ecstasy in battle-noise, the crash of bolters, and cleaving their enemies to pieces with the insane sounds of their sonic blasters.

 

Emperor's Children - They'd be more focused on personal pleasure alongside their weapons' obvious military benefits, but they'd probably take a little of everything mentioned here.

 

Word Bearers - They'd be deeply spiritual sybarites, trying to recreate the sound of the Warp itself, doing all they could to weaponise and manifest the music of unreality into the material realm. In Warp travel, they'd hear the screams and deaths and liquid agonies of the Sea of Souls, and while they'd worship all the gods, they'd find themselves tainted by Slaanesh more than the others (whether they willed it or not) in their quest to make their sick vision a reality. They'd be respected by their XVII brethren, but perhaps not considered entirely stable.

 

Iron Warriors - They'd be almost wholly focused on the applications of sonic weaponry as lethal, semi-Warped battlefield technology, and the Iron Warriors wielding them wouldn't pay any heed to the fact their senses and brain patterns were changing. They'd not worship Slaanesh (they might not even know his name or care he exists) but over time they'd find themselves becoming dulled to any other enjoyment, like the Noise Marines they are.

 

Black Legion - The squad would be based on one, two, or all of the above angles. I might add the fact they either stole the weapons from an Emperor's Children warband whom they kicked the snot out of, or that their Noise Marine contingent and many other Marines in the warband were once part of the Emperor's Children.

[Iron Sage]

Iron Warriors - They'd be almost wholly focused on the applications of sonic weaponry as lethal, semi-Warped battlefield technology, and the Iron Warriors wielding them wouldn't pay any heed to the fact their senses and brain patterns were changing. They'd not worship Slaanesh (they might not even know his name or care he exists) but over time they'd find themselves becoming dulled to any other enjoyment, like the Noise Marines they are.

 

Mmm, thats pretty much how I envisioned them if I care to field them (massed precise fire which renders concrete cover useless would have practical utillity in a Warsmiths Legionary force).

Maybe I would ignore the "noise", sensation (slaneesh) bit completly and just model them with heavy bolter-like weaponry (I have had that idea for some time), though I see no reason why Iron Warriors should not be "God-touched" in general.

[the jeske]

the problem is that a 10 man nm squad with a syren , blast master , rhino and all the other upgrades costs a lot more then 7-8pms with 2 plasma and the pms outshine them most of the time . The only time I would use NM is in a tailored list ,If I knew that my opponent has footguard[no flyers , no SW +2tanks in IG blob] , orcs [but not of the biker mob kind] or nids .

 

the change to blast master was realy a huge hit to NM as a viable option and the intentional or not wording on taking sonic blasters doesnt help either. Realy sad to be honest .

[A D-B]

the problem is that a 10 man nm squad with a syren , blast master , rhino and all the other upgrades costs a lot more then 7-8pms with 2 plasma and the pms outshine them most of the time . The only time I would use NM is in a tailored list ,If I knew that my opponent has footguard[no flyers , no SW +2tanks in IG blob] , orcs [but not of the biker mob kind] or nids .

 

the change to blast master was realy a huge hit to NM as a viable option and the intentional or not wording on taking sonic blasters doesnt help either. Realy sad to be honest .

 

Yeah, I hear you. If I ever take that 10-man squad (and I probably will at some point) every time they suck and die, I'll raise a glass in your honour, dude.

 

"The Jeske told me this would happen. And he was right."

[Hannibal.Lictor]

I agree that the Salvo change to sonics is toughtless on I5 marines. That being said Ignores cover is pretty awesome. 9 marines with 27 dice is not shabby at all.

[the jeske]

it is not a question of sucking and dieing . more of just sucking . 10 dudes with icon 9 sonics and a blast mater in a rhino with havock and gars . cost a wooping 370 pts . thats 10 terminators marked up with combi plasmas. its 2 units of 5 pms with 2 plasma each . now am not saying that this almost 400 pts unit doesnt kill geq or even orks like there is no tomorrow . no , this even kills marines and probably teqs too . but again it does it for ~400pts . and all it takes is a something LoS blocking in front and the unit does nothing .

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Whilst you do make points, this a discussion about using Noise marines, yes we know Plague marines are better, they are always better a simple concepts like "RAW SHAMSH!" and rotting zombie marines is easier to sell to the little kids, but we are trying to discuss using them.

I am thinking of taking a unit of noise marines in bigger games as a support to my Thousand sons, I'm thinking 5-10 (I'm thinking use the Mk IV or VI armour with capes, sonic weapons and other work for noise marines) with blastmasters and sonic blasters, with the dakke rhino to aid against hoardes.

And I really like the descriptions of each legion's cult noise marine count as, would be interesting to see your takes on the other cults as well.

[A D-B]

it is not a question of sucking and dieing . more of just sucking . 10 dudes with icon 9 sonics and a blast mater in a rhino with havock and gars . cost a wooping 370 pts . thats 10 terminators marked up with combi plasmas.

 

Oh, God. Don't say it like that - it makes it even more painful.

[the jeske]

hey I played with NM all 4th ed . ask me how I feel now . But to give ray of hope to people . If someone is playing 1850 or more . and has fire base [aegis,havocks/forgefiends] and normaly bubble wraps them with cultists , then bubblwraping the said firebase with 8-10 NM no blast master , may not be the most optimal ... but in a geq/necron/nids heavy eviroment doable . even against slogger builds this unit does not drop to warp talon/possessed level . there is tons of better things , there is cheaper stuff , but it does not gimp the list in to non viable area .

 

I realy dislike what GW did to NM and 1ksons . I understand the 1ksons , GW hates them , always makes them bad , so it is a tradition thing. But NM were bad in the gav dex at least technicly they should be made better/good in this new dex . They arent . sad thing , a realy sad thing .

[minigun762]

With sonics, couldn't you place them more than 2" from an aegis line so that assault troops would have to cross the line to actually assault them?

Normally you wouldn't do this because you don't want to give them the benefit of the 4+ save but noise marines don't care about your cover.

[the jeske]

you could , but the IG list is more or less build around going down when shot at getting cover like power armor and then standing up using orders and shoting . So they do stay near the aegis . they probably would still stay near it even with a NM squad used they just wouldnt blob up to a 20 man size.

 

christ I hate the options other dex get . I mean NM are shoty , shoty should be good not bad for 6th ed . stupid GW.

[Xenith]

This is a tough one.

 

I can get Champ+9 NM with blasters for 197pts (ignoring the champ for now...), or 15 Dudes with bolters for 195.

 

NM put out 27 shots at 24", CSM put out 15. If the enemy starts 24.1-30" away...then over 2 turns, the NM get 27 shots and the CSM get 30.

 

NM are upsettingly defensive, unles you can get them close.

 

Thinking about it, getting them a rhino, 10 guys, doom siren and 2 claws and infiltrating them up a flank with Master of Deception from Huron will liekly be how I'll run them.

 

The problem is then who do I take for my second HQ in 1500pt games. A Sorceror would be ace, but I'd want Luscious Lucius up front and centre to Doom Siren enemy characters for Boon Rolls.

 

Can you imagine if you could do that before they changed nobs mobs to not all be characters.

[Pariah Mk.231]

Btw you can't place the icons on champs anymore AFAIK.

 

You sure can, icons are worded that one model in the unit may carry it, without specifying between basic trooper or champion, meaning it's perfectly legitimate for the champion to lug it around on top of his other gear.

[diabloelmo]

Btw you can't place the icons on champs anymore AFAIK.

 

You sure can, icons are worded that one model in the unit may carry it, without specifying between basic trooper or champion, meaning it's perfectly legitimate for the champion to lug it around on top of his other gear.

 

That's how I read it, I'll be fielding the FnP banner on the champion of my Atramentar squad. Lightning claws, power mauls, combi-meltas and a heavy flamer, all in a Land Raider. Expensive as hell, but FnP terminators just make me happy...

[minigun762]

This is a tough one.

 

I can get Champ+9 NM with blasters for 197pts (ignoring the champ for now...), or 15 Dudes with bolters for 195.

 

NM put out 27 shots at 24", CSM put out 15. If the enemy starts 24.1-30" away...then over 2 turns, the NM get 27 shots and the CSM get 30.

Unless I misunderstood your scenario, I'm not sure on your math. If the enemy is 24" away and is walking towards the two squads in question at 6" a turn, the CSMs would get 15+15+30+30 =90 shots total and the NM would get 27+27+27+27= 108 shots total. That's +20% more firepower for the NM and it ignores cover.

 

Of course in that scenario you would probably take 13 CSMs and 2 plasma instead for better anti tank and terminator killing.

[Lepaca]

Btw you can't place the icons on champs anymore AFAIK.

 

You sure can, icons are worded that one model in the unit may carry it, without specifying between basic trooper or champion, meaning it's perfectly legitimate for the champion to lug it around on top of his other gear.

 

You're absolutely right, didn't have my codex with me then to check. :)

[minigun762]

While doing some list building, I reread the salvo rules. I was ok with the can't assault part because its a shooting squad but I just noticed the 1/2 range issue when you move.

 

I'm on the fence about how limiting this is. Turn one you could run and hopefully get within range by turn two but its no guarantee.

Or you forego the blasters for basic bolters so you keep the mobile range but lose that awesome cover denial.

[Xenith]

This is a tough one.

 

I can get Champ+9 NM with blasters for 197pts (ignoring the champ for now...), or 15 Dudes with bolters for 195.

 

NM put out 27 shots at 24", CSM put out 15. If the enemy starts 24.1-30" away...then over 2 turns, the NM get 27 shots and the CSM get 30.

Unless I misunderstood your scenario, I'm not sure on your math. If the enemy is 24" away and is walking towards the two squads in question at 6" a turn, the CSMs would get 15+15+30+30 =90 shots total and the NM would get 27+27+27+27= 108 shots total. That's +20% more firepower for the NM and it ignores cover.

 

Of course in that scenario you would probably take 13 CSMs and 2 plasma instead for better anti tank and terminator killing.

 

If the enemy start 25" away, the NM lose a turn of shooting as they have to move into range, at which point their salvo guns now have a 12" range. The CSM can move forward and get 15 shots at this range. Also, the last 12" is used up in a single turn due to the charge.

 

Why anyone would move toward the NM, I do not know, but assume they do, as per your example. If they are moving closer, we will assume that they wish to assault.

 

The CSM move 6" get one shot at 19", enemy moves up 6". CSM move up 6" and now get a rapid fire at 12", for 45 shots total, or they can bolt pistol and assault, for 30 shots + the charge.

 

The NM: Move 6", now 19" away, no shots. enemy moves 6". NM Stand still and get 27 shots, cannot assault, or they can move, fire their bolt pistols (10 shots) and assault.

 

EDIT: Ahh, just seen that you've checked the salvo rules. They're annoying, for sure.