Nurgle list to be aware of..

[Emperors Immortals]

Simple answer is Baal flamestorm cannon - not hurt by hive and able to clear the cultists at range. That's what I'd be afraid of, otherwise any blast weapons and then melta or plasma his arse dead. Now I just realised a dev squad 3 ml one pc would be perfect for this and very useful in general.

[Stefoserpent]

Hello guys , its been ages since I last wrote a post here , but I think that the aforementioned list is not so scary.

 

 

Typhus rules mention that zombies have FNP, fearless, SnP and cannot purchase anything. That means they cant get a mark of Nurgle , so if they kill a unit it wont give a boost to Epidemius tally. Please correct me if I am wrong here , but even if this list is actually 100% legal , IMHO it is not scary at all. If all the damage comes from 10-30 nurgle marines with bolters , Nurgle spawns and a model that moves 6" per turn , then it certainly wont do so much damage to a BA force. If the fundamentals of target priority are applied, then I think that they wont get any of their bonuses. Same goes for IG armies and even Necrons. A good asset for the rather mediocre Chaos codex , but certainly nothing compared to the Necron Flying Breakfast lists....

[Demoulius]

I think the list was about Typhus blasting his own troops to oblivion with his destroyer hive. Since he IS carrying a mark of nurgle the added kills would count for the tally.... Making them zombies actually would lessen the kills that move would give as the zombies get a 5+ FnP roll against the blast.

 

All that said im wondering just what impact it would make... Considering the high number of attacks Typhus would get in combat/a challenge it almost seems like shooting yourself in the foot to try and get more kills :huh:

[Ushtarador]

As long as your opponent isn't fielding blight drones, you should be fine :rolleyes: (at least if they count for the tally)

[Zeller]

If you fight for nurgle as a demon or a marine there is no difference in the greater scheme of the warp gods so what reason could there possibly be besides "It's too good, powergamey, cheesepudding?" A follower of nurgle is a follower of nurgle.

 

The fact the plague zombies can't take the mark of nurgle is the most solid nail in the coffin to kill this plan that has been presented. It means there's nothing scary about this idea in the first place because it simply doesn't work as initially thought to. Ergo, vis-a-vis, concordantly, *flails a clicky pen from a rolly chair in front of a few dozen screens* just throw a dread at him and squish him. He's got a 5+ at best.

[Morticon]

The fact the plague zombies can't take the mark of nurgle is the most solid nail in the coffin to kill this plan that has been presented. It means there's nothing scary about this idea in the first place because it simply doesn't work as initially thought to.

 

Nah, thats not how it works matey. For every model that a model with MoN kills, the tally goes up.

So, if Tyhpus is surrounded by plague zombies (or ideally regular cultists) and then drops the hive destroyer, typhus gets to wrack up the tally.

So, it still works just as fine.

 

The idea though for BA against it is just the same, Baals and shooting to thin out the cultists, and generally avoid combat with that squad so Typhus cant use the ability.

[Zeller]

A vindicator could do just as well to solve the problem. You may even get lucky enough to hit typhus.

[daboarder]

In my experience both playing with and against this style of list the best thing to do is just straight up nuke epidemius. He wont get into that bastion before you feed him and his squad some serious overkill.

 

this style of list is actually better when it includes more daemons than just epidemius and his obligatory PB squad, its when you run into a nurgle daemon list with CSM support that things get really hairy, especially now days with cheap MoN marines.

[CitadelArmyGuy]

I don't think the trick will pan-out. Internet tells me Typhus is T5 with no EW, so the IG Medusa will Ordinance Barrage-snipe him (2+ LoS! of course, but hey). Other Str10 nastiness also mitigates him, ala Monstrous Creature Smash or Arjac/Lysander Hammers or other things like that. Getting the Tally higher by killing their own models seems better on paper than in reality; they are reducing their points-pool in an attempt to Force Multiply the rest --- but there's a a terrible fixed-cost price tagged to it. Why not just leave that expensive points-sink Typhus at home, and take other Nurgle things that will legitimately inflict kills and raise the Tally that way? lol

 

The combo exists, but just like the IG Sanctioned Psykers / Primaris Psyker "Weaken Resolve-Psychic Shriek" combo, it may never see a Tournament table due to reliability issues.

 

 

Edit: The 'nuke Epidemius' approach is trickier than it sounds, he is an Indepenent Character and will likely arrive attached to Plaguebearers... not too easy to nuke, especially since they'll arrive back-field, or wherever's safest and hard to reach.

[CitadelArmyGuy]

Just got my hands on the new Chaos Codex finally!

 

Destroyer Hive is only once per game!? I'm no longer impressed even a little bit.

 

Since it is not germaine to Blood Angels, I'll be doing up my impression of the whole new CSM codex as a blog under B&C. When I'm finished I'll link it here so as not to clutter up the board.

 

Spoiler: there's a much nastier combo we as Blood Angels actually have to fear.

[Brother Nihm]

Y'all gotta admit,

 

That build has a nice two minutes to midnight feel to it, very Chaos'y! :)

[IK Viper]

A guy here at my local store plays something like this and I am actually only one of 2 ppl who has been able to beat him (the other was a guy who ran 3 doom sythes and annihilation barges on a skyshield,... super cheese fight when those 2 played), currently the series is tied 2W - 2L and a draw. Got a rubber match coming soon.

 

He doesn't kill off his own guys, he plays 9 Obliterators 3 Plague Marine sqauds, "Epidouchious", a Chaos Lord of Nurgle, CSM's w MoN, Rhinos for the Plague Mairnes, and Plaue Bearers to escourt the fat guy when he DS in.

 

This list takes a while longer to tally up but it can actually fight for itself, your looking at the potential for 36 plasma shots inside double tap range so its hard to get there without giving up alot of units on the tally and "Epidouchious" is always promptly run to the back behind his Aegis line or a building way in the back behind his Oblits.

 

In one of the games I lost, I killed the fat guy with a Librarian but was to depleted at that point to turn it around, most of the time though he is tucked so far back that its super hard to get to him and with 12 Plague Bearers to kill off before you get to him its super hard to put him down outside of assault,

 

Like I have been hearing in the thread, the big weakness of Nurgle is the mobility, you will have a hard time winning Kill Points vs this but objectives that are placed fairly far apart you have a great chance of winning, specially if you can cut out the legs of the army (rhinos = easy first blood, and the only mobility to a list like this)

 

be warned... if that tally gets rolling its rediculous... the 3+ FnP thing was clearly written for 5th Ed. where normal FnP was a 4+ and got ignored by alot of stuff, it has not been updated and now effectively doubles the FnP save, and works on anything other then ID hits, couple that with the fact that the units you are talking about are all T5 and you have effectively given everything in the army a Stormshield unless they get hit with strength 10... (broke as hell) also, if the tally gets to like 20, ALL attacks from units with MoN ignore armor :-( so your looking at an army that is universally AP2 and has Stormshields once they get to 20 kills on the tally if the fat man is still alive... (seam a bit rediculous? I think so, specially for bringing a 115 point HQ) plague Marines suddenly become more durable then Hammornators vs. small arms fire, and just as tough vs. anything less then a rail gun or demolisher cannon...

 

Although to be honest we are not the ones that need to fear this, ork players might as well not even deploy, that tally will be up turn 2 and its basically hopeless from that point onward.

[CitadelArmyGuy]

IK Viper, after seeing the new CSM codex in full and having fully digested it, I understand the true combo now. Thank you for highlighting it for the Community-- Typhus has nothing to do with this combo.

 

It is Epidemius with 9 Nurgle Marked Obliterators and Nurgle-Marked CSM. Typhus will play if they decide to run true Plague Marines as Troops. Typhus helps that build even more since then they can have cheap semi-resilient Light Infantry scoring from the Plague Zombies.

 

Also, allying Daemons means they can take Flamers of Tzeentch, everybody's favorite unit to hate.

 

 

Also, I finished my digestion of the new Chaos Codex. WARNING, very wordy and in-depth look at the new codex, and I still feel I didn't cover it all -- here is the link: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...;showentry=8311

[Ushtarador]

I really hope the 3+ FnP will be adjusted soon, you don't need the tally that high for it and it's stupidly unbalanced if you have T5 marines that need an average of 9 normal wounds to die (they are as durable as our FnP-termies then). Nurgle-Oblits are probably the best choice anyway, and they rack up kills very fast against almost anything, once he got the FnP he'll be virtually indestructible.

Ignoring armor saves at 20+ kills is quite good as well, but horde armies won't have armor saves against bolters anyway and against marines it's usually gonna take a while to get it up there, so that's not too imbalanced I think (at least compared to the FnP).

[Ushtarador]

oh and CAG: you wrote "but remembering that you can Bless/Maledict when you arrive from Reserve," I'm pretty sure thats a "can't" ^^

[CitadelArmyGuy]

oh and CAG: you wrote "but remembering that you can Bless/Maledict when you arrive from Reserve," I'm pretty sure thats a "can't" ^^

Thanks got it fixed. Lots of text there, I loathe typos but its hard to catch 'em all.

[CitadelArmyGuy]

GW released the Chaos Space Marine FAQ. There is literally only one important thing in it.

 

Plague Zombies (ala Typhus) ARE allowed to take more bodies than 10. Fortunately they aren't allowed to be given Mark of Nurgle so I don't believe they benefit from the Tally.

[CitadelArmyGuy]

Resurrecting this old thread because I built something... something bad.

 

I'd like to get Blood Angel opinions on how to beat this list. Let me be clear-- I will never play this list. I merely need to know it exists, and how to beat it with Blood Angels.

 

Link to horror :) : http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=265847

[Emperors Immortals]

As a BA player, i'd be pretty tabled.

 

2 SR and some baals is all i could really think of, apart from that I would try to hit it with HB spam, bikes, speeders dakka everything and just use that fast rhino chassis to deny attacks etc.

[Ushtarador]

Damn yyouuuu CAG, stop giving them ideas! I agree with above, 2x SR with dreads inside, mephi to deal with the bikes and some outflanking baals because they are quite resilient and can't be alphastruck. But it's a LOT of plasma...

If your SR both arrive in turn 2 I feel you got a chance, clear out the guys behind the defense line and then shred plasmagun squads with your dreads.

[SamaNagol]

Prescience Talon Dreads....

[SnorriSnorrison]

Tailoring a list against that is not too difficult, I think. As mentioned before, Furioso Dreads on 'Ravens are very effective against Plague Marines and the Terminator Lord alike. Their AV 13 Front is the best thing to deal with Plasma fire, needing sixes to hit and to glance on overwatch. Even with 2 plasmaguns per squad, that's not enough to stop a charging Dread. ;)

 

Unload a squad of DC to kill Epidermus and the Plagebearers, and that should be dealt with. Disregard axes and acquire a Chaplain, I'd say, even though I know that you're not the biggest fan of Chaplains, CAG. ;)

The re-rolling of all to-wound rolls is a big deal, and Epidermus has an invul save anyway.

 

I'd use plasma cannons on the Stormravens, simply because of the AP2. After destroying the Quad Gun, let them go rampage on the havocs and Plague Marines that haven't been taken out by the Dreadnoughts. Also, the bloodstrike missiles should, if fired all at once, be enough to decimate the Obliterators.

 

Otherwise, the less vehicles, the better. The very fast MoN bikers will cut through them like a knife slicing through an aubergine, and let's not forget the Obliterators. Against FnP troops, bikers struggle in close combat, and Oblits have been nerfed, so 4 rounds of plasmacannons aren't going to happen, thank the God-Emperor.

 

A Tactical Squad(yes, I said it) with Plasmagun, Plasmacannon should work as a mid- to longrange threat, either as combat squads for increased flexibility or the normal 10-men loadout.

Then, an additional Assault squad is required, probably meltaguns or flamers. Add a Sanguinary Priest and either a Librarian(for Prescience) or a Chaplain. It's only a small countercharge unit, but we do need any attacks we can get.

 

For HQ, Mephiston(as already mentioned) with Sanguine Sword is pretty boss, or else maybe a Reclusiarch to lead an assault squad or the Death Company. A normal Librarian would do just fine as well, especiall with the force multiplication of the Divination lore.

If that fits within the points limit, the Sanguinor is a choice to consider. Tough, 3++ invul and a big buff for any unit around him. Imagine DC with 6 attacks per model....:(

 

 

Well, that's the very little I can add. :P

 

 

Snorri

[CitadelArmyGuy]

Some great insight already, I'm feeling a lot better about things. Ever get those flashes after you make a particular list, and you get like a rush of good feeling about it because everything you wanted fits and it just feels excellent, like a well balanced sword? Well this was the opposite-- I made this list, and I got 'The Fear' lol. I'm a firm believer that no list is unbeatable, just that some lists require very specific tailoring to beat (sometimes nullifying ability for all-comers). Closest I've ever gotten to true despair is the Flamer/Screamer spam list. Still pretty sore about that one...

 

2 SR and some baals is all i could really think of, apart from that I would try to hit it with HB spam, bikes, speeders dakka everything and just use that fast rhino chassis to deny attacks etc.

I agree that Stormravens might help out immensely, depending on how you use them. The tricky thing is there's not a lot of redundancy there-- the Quadgun could get lucky, and if it doesn't then the Raven still can't hammer all the Havocs and Oblits, would have to pick just one. Any survivors of which can also get lucky. It just hurts that they don't need to get lucky to win, but We do (understand my meaning of the word 'lucky' here means receiving a favorable observed outcome in comparison to an expected outcome). If our shooting can eliminate the Quadgun in Turn1 before the Raven arrives then things begin to look better. But the quadgun isn't normally Target Priority 1, those dang meltabikers would be Priority1 in most games.

 

Damn yyouuuu CAG, stop giving them ideas! I agree with above, 2x SR with dreads inside, mephi to deal with the bikes and some outflanking baals because they are quite resilient and can't be alphastruck. But it's a LOT of plasma...

If your SR both arrive in turn 2 I feel you got a chance, clear out the guys behind the defense line and then shred plasmagun squads with your dreads.

I also feel Mephiston is a natural choice. However he may not survive even one turn unlocked in melee. Fortunately with Champion of Chaos rule, and all those MSU-Infantry, it means when he charges he'll whack the Champ, then next Phase he'll wipe the 4 Troopers. Rinse-repeat, so that all he takes are Overwatch shooting rather than Nurgle's wrathload of plasma to the face. Meph will be swinging first, just gotta watch for the Oblits Powerfists as they will be operating in close-support with the Plagues. Meph gets his bug-zapper against the Oblits though, and hell if they've dealing with Meph then you aren't being shot by them so it's probably still a good choice, like sacrificing your Queen in chess to gain advantage.

 

Predators (or Vindicators?) might help as a delivery-system for Meph if he flew behind one for LoS denial. The Raven is a good choice, but unreliable either through failure to arrive or potentially being shot down followed by Meph's plasma-death. Perhaps even Razorback MSU? Because those don't add too heavily to the Tally, and when Razors pop you can hide behind them. The meltabikers would become Target Priority 1 to prevent Razor-explosions though, gotta have them die from Hullpoints to keep their LoS denial

 

Outflanking Baals could also be interesting to hunt down the Tallyman. The problem is, I keep vacillating between focusing on hunting him down or simply ignoring him. A LOT will boil down to the mission honestly-- This Nurgle List loves Relic, Big Guns, Scouring, and Purge (because even though its MSU-Infantry, it can turtle-up). That leaves it weak on Crusade and Emperors where you can just focus on killing 30 Plague Marines/Bearers (not an unachievable task for a 2k list).

 

I'd recommend Vindicators more heavily but the meltabikers are an issue, plus with spread-formations each Vindi is only getting at best 3 hits on any one unit at a time.

 

I'm starting to feel better and better about AC/LC Preds in this fight, to be honest. Not very good versus their Troops (5+ Cover/FnP) but quite excellent for wounding their Bikers/Oblits and forcing Havocs to go to ground. Their range keeps them away from the meltabikers until they've been shot or killed by Meph. When the timing is right, they could blitz forward providing concealment against the plasma.

[Ushtarador]

I would deepstrike an ASM squad to deal with the tallyman. That way, he will always have to hold something back there to protect him, and it shouldn't be that hard to DS outside of LOS of the oblits. Ravens aren't that afraid of a quadgun, and if you have a defense line of your own they will arrive almost surely even if you play 2 thanks to the relay.

Mephiston is indeed perfect against everything except his lord and should be able to wreck a lot of face with the challenge-tactic you mentioned. Oblits really aren't that dangerous either, with SoS activated you still deal instant death to them, don't even have to activate the force weapon. Also, you force your opponent to concentrate on killing mephiston, because if he doesn't, Mephi will just chew through everything he has.

I'm not sure about razorbacks, havocs, oblits and bikers eat those for breakfast, I'd much rather have AV13 predators which are almost immune to the autocannons. AC/LC preds could be nice to kill oblits and bikers indeed, especially because you outrange them by 12'' if I remember correctly, so he would have to move his bikers over there, you might use that to draw him out of position.

 

I think that's actually how I would play this: Put some AC/LC preds on one flank to lure his bikers, then DS or walk a good force of ASM with priest up the other. Sure those plasmaguns are annoying, but with cover and fnp it isn't that bad anymore. ASM don't care about havocs and the oblits can be dealt with by either the preds or your ravens. Then put Mephi in the middle and kill the bikers if they take the bait, or just fly forward and kill stuff in his deployment zone.

 

P.S. I played against a not that hard melee chaos force yesterday, and I really love that new boon table. By the way, have you heard of that guy who's lived for over 10000 years and usually goes on crusades? Spawnaddon the Despoiler I think was his name ;)