L30n1d4s Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Anyone try this yet? Khârn gives the whole unit Fearless and Hatred (so basically the same as a Dark Apostle/Chaplain), 35 cultists give Khârn tons of ablative wounds to make up for his weak armor (pretty much is only weakness) and a bunch of attacks to deal with enemy hordes, plus the Cultists are scoring. The entire unit gets a 2+ Deny the Witch roll and the Aspiring Champ can take challenges if you don't want to "waste" Kharns attacks on some enemy sergeant. Additionally, if Khârn rolls any 1s and attacks his own guys, you are only losing a 4 point model (vice a 13+ point CSM or some other more expensive alternative). Throw in a few cheap flamers (good crowd control) and even Mark of Khorne on the cultists (they still are really cheap) and you have upwards of 137 re-rollable S3 AP- attacks on the charge and another 7 re-rollable S7 AP2 attacks on the charge. If the unit is charged itself, Ld 10 Counterattack means you very likely get 102 S3 AP - attacks and 6 S6 AP2 attacks (all re-rollable due to Hatred) if the unit it charged, not to mention 3 times D3 Flamer hits from Overwatch. Thoughts or anyone's experience with this setup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheex Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Certainly looks like one of the best ways to run Khârn, to me. Or any combat character, for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Will certainly give this a try, most likely with 24 Cultists + 2x Flamers, perhaps even with MoK if I feel funky enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadin Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Well comparing bodyguard value Vs Marines 6 bolter hits, 3 wounds, 1 dead, 15 points Khorne CSM, 19 points Berzerker Vs Cultists 6 bolter hits, 4 wounds, 4 dead, 16 points vanilla, 20 points with 1 point mark, 24 points with 2 point mark. So just on a cost benefit analysis, Marines make better body guards vs rifle fire. Also, cultists cannot take angry "fleet" banner. Although I love the idea of 35 man meat shield squad, I do not think they are worth while unless you are expecting it to rain earth shaker rounds in you game. And even then 35 guys are much more unwieldy than 20 and might get a lot more hits on them from high strength good AP large blasts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Well comparing bodyguard value Vs Marines 6 bolter hits, 3 wounds, 1 dead, 15 points Khorne CSM, 19 points Berzerker Vs Cultists 6 bolter hits, 4 wounds, 4 dead, 16 points vanilla, 20 points with 1 point mark, 24 points with 2 point mark. So just on a cost benefit analysis, Marines make better body guards vs rifle fire. Also, cultists cannot take angry "fleet" banner. Although I love the idea of 35 man meat shield squad, I do not think they are worth while unless you are expecting it to rain earth shaker rounds in you game. And even then 35 guys are much more unwieldy than 20 and might get a lot more hits on them from high strength good AP large blasts Now on your average deaths and point costs you are correct, there is one very important thing you have not mentioned here or should be taken into consideration when you make the comperison. The total ammount of bodies / wounds actually mather when you want to keep Khârn alive and on the other side don't want one unit that is worth shooting at EVERY TIME. I believe in the strenght of spreading your strengths along the whole army. One choppy / incredible unit is effective in one part of the battle but might not be the unit you want your army to have. What is very important about Cultists is their allround cheapness. If your opponent decides to shoot at this unit it will mean that one other unit, vechicle or walker is save for 1. In short this could mean your Chosen/Havocs/Vindicator or Helldrake is not being shot at for a whole turn (unless... etc). Now cultists are troops and also gain your opponents KP fast, the intention is to spread the strengts. When Khârn + mob goes into CC almost nothing can stop him and the mob, this feels Orkish as hell, but is very effective. It's mearly a meat shield. The last thing that should be noted is that all fire is not boltgun fire. When the weapons are ap3 the cultists come out on top because of mass. When you thake your unit of 8-10 Beserkers the minimum cost is around 190 points. When you thake your 20 Cultists the minimum cost is around 100 points. For that 90 point difference a unit of 3 bikers + Melta's can be bought. Perhaps some food for thought. Last but not least, I love Beserkers but I feel they don't need the support to be good. They are a good (good not great, due to movement, endureness and effectiveness in defending positions) shock troop. Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Gore Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 This is how I plan on running him. Khârn doesn't need to be in berzerkers, they are already choppy and fearless. Khârn should be in cultists or in MoK Marines. I prefer cultists because you can just ram them down your opponents throat, and if Khârn kills them it's not a big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 This is how I plan on running him. Khârn doesn't need to be in berzerkers, they are already choppy and fearless. Khârn should be in cultists or in MoK Marines. I prefer cultists because you can just ram them down your opponents throat, and if Khârn kills them it's not a big deal. In short, I agree :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadin Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Hmm, you have some good points 35 cultists is only 150 points whereas 20 MoK marines with banner, lightning claw, meta guns, is like 360 If I get my hands on some cultists I will have to playtest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Krag Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 What about putting him in a terminator squad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 What about putting him in a terminator squad? Better not roll 1's then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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