Clewz Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Noticed a few comments about spawn recently. I'm just wondering if they are any good or are they just cannon fodder. The lack of a fixed armour save is putting me off somewhat Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/263231-are-spawn-any-good/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Noticed a few comments about spawn recently. I'm just wondering if they are any good or are they just cannon fodder. The lack of a fixed armour save is putting me off somewhat They are okay-ish. Can get an armour save if your lucky. Allround best used as a poke stick/counter assault unit or meatwall for your mounted CSM Lord. Cheers, Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/263231-are-spawn-any-good/#findComment-3206957 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.darkness Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Theyre pretty good, for only 30pts, you get 3 t5 wounds, and even if they don't have a save, they ignore cove then moving, so it's quite easy to get a save. Nurgle is pretty good, but whether it's worth the points I don't know. They can also get line breaker quite easily, or at keast easier than a lot of our other units Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/263231-are-spawn-any-good/#findComment-3207016 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Problem is that they are in the fast slot, together with awesome-drakes and awesome-bikers. Ok-raptors are there as well so there is definitely a lot of things competing with them for a slot... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/263231-are-spawn-any-good/#findComment-3207019 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 They are quite good. Obviously the other FA choices are good as well (we should never complain about that fact), and in many builds you may want to maximize bikers etc. However, the spawn do something that the other FA choices don`t do for their relativly small cost. It`s true they got no save. Their 3 wounds and T5 makes having no saves not that shabby at all. They move as rapid beastst, and completly ignore cover movement limitations. Don`t underestimate that. They also happen to have fear, fearless, rage and that HtH mutation rule in addition to their d6 str 5 attacks, which makes them potentially quite destructive, and especially for their points. 5 spawns is only 150 points. Contrary to what seems popular here, my own theory crafting is that Mark of Slaneeh is over all better than MoN (it`s much cheaper first of all), since it makes them even more of an allround threat to most everything, when they then strike at Init 4. Still very much worth the points with no upgrades, and your opponent mustfire upon them or he will likely suffer if you send 2 X5 spawn units up the board. This frees up some of your other weapons from some of the fire that the enemy really should be pouring onto the quite dangerous spawns. However you look at it, it is a very good unit, and I may add, suprisingly so since most of us thought Spawns would suck as usual. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/263231-are-spawn-any-good/#findComment-3207023 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.darkness Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 I played bikers, but preferred spawn. They are better through cover, and get more attacks. Hell drakes are alright , and people seem to be liking them more and more, but we don't need them, we have other options. Raptors and talons are meh. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/263231-are-spawn-any-good/#findComment-3207024 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Problem is that they are in the fast slot, together with awesome-drakes and awesome-bikers. Ok-raptors are there as well so there is definitely a lot of things competing with them for a slot... I don't think this is a mayor concern. The Fast Attack slot often is less important than the Elite or Heavy slot. If you really are bound on fielding 3 units of Bikers/Raptors it's true you can't thake them. Having said that 1 unit of Spawns is more than enough and can actually acomplish some nice things when led by a Chaos Lord on a Steed. Cheers, Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/263231-are-spawn-any-good/#findComment-3207027 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urauloth Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Spawn are absolutely stellar for their points imo. A big, tough, fast and fearless pile of attacks and wounds for a handful of points. The lack of save isn't a huge issue for them with their speed and toughness, and while they do take up a valuable FA slot, I think they're going to be worth it a lot of the time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/263231-are-spawn-any-good/#findComment-3207028 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Problem is that they are in the fast slot, together with awesome-drakes and awesome-bikers. Ok-raptors are there as well so there is definitely a lot of things competing with them for a slot... I don't think this is a mayor concern. The Fast Attack slot often is less important than the Elite or Heavy slot. If you really are bound on fielding 3 units of Bikers/Raptors it's true you can't thake them. Having said that 1 unit of Spawns is more than enough and can actually acomplish some nice things when led by a Chaos Lord on a Steed. Cheers, Even at 1500 points I'm having one drake and a squad of bikers, and I would love to take another drake. Sure, the spawns might be a nice retinue for your lord, until he is forced into a challenge against a squadsergeant, while the opposing HQ and remaining troops slaughters them in cc. I would much rather have a bike squad accompanying him that can also shoot plasma/melta, have a champion with upgrades and also overwatch if they should get charged. Three wounds is nice, but against smallarms fire the 3+ save on the bikers offers a similar survivability, less so against weapons with ap3, but they at least have their jink. If your lord/bikers have MoS and IoE, they have FnP as well apart from that... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/263231-are-spawn-any-good/#findComment-3207033 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Immortals Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 I'm thinking of taking 3 and pairing with mos cultist blob to send on a flank could be a total bargain - 250 pts to deny a flank fire magnet orbreak a line Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/263231-are-spawn-any-good/#findComment-3207041 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Problem is that they are in the fast slot, together with awesome-drakes and awesome-bikers. Ok-raptors are there as well so there is definitely a lot of things competing with them for a slot... I don't think this is a mayor concern. The Fast Attack slot often is less important than the Elite or Heavy slot. If you really are bound on fielding 3 units of Bikers/Raptors it's true you can't thake them. Having said that 1 unit of Spawns is more than enough and can actually acomplish some nice things when led by a Chaos Lord on a Steed. Cheers, Even at 1500 points I'm having one drake and a squad of bikers, and I would love to take another drake. Sure, the spawns might be a nice retinue for your lord, until he is forced into a challenge against a squadsergeant, while the opposing HQ and remaining troops slaughters them in cc. I would much rather have a bike squad accompanying him that can also shoot plasma/melta, have a champion with upgrades and also overwatch if they should get charged. Three wounds is nice, but against smallarms fire the 3+ save on the bikers offers a similar survivability, less so against weapons with ap3, but they at least have their jink. If your lord/bikers have MoS and IoE, they have FnP as well apart from that... First of all, your clearly comparing a spawn unit to a more expensive biker unit (if you add icons and marks and etc.), which is not a fair comparison to such a cheap unit. Secondly, while you may get charged now and then, it will not be every game that your opponent (hopefully) manages to assault your squad of extremly fast moving beasts. Spawns are also good against infantry and tanks, while the bikers must be specialized and tailored to be as effective against either. But sure, bikers are an outstanding unit, raptors are good as well.But that does not change the fact that the spawns are a very decent FA choice that forces your opponents hand, even when not accompanied by a lord. Think of them like jackals and you will do well with them I think. Don`t engage enemy deathstars with spawns, since this happens to be one of their few weaknesses (that and walkers) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/263231-are-spawn-any-good/#findComment-3207049 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 4 spawn = 120p, 4 bikers with 2 plasmaguns = 120p Marks can be added to both units at a similar cost, and on bikers you have an option to take an icon(you don't have to) where you do not on spawn. How are they more expensive? In the end I feel like it depends on what role you want them to play. I use my bikes to pop transports and dudes with 2+/3+ saves with plasma while advancing up the board, trying to snipe stuff here and there, but I agree that in cc spawn would be great, if they get to strike(I3)... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/263231-are-spawn-any-good/#findComment-3207132 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 4 spawn = 120p, 4 bikers with 2 plasmaguns = 120p Marks can be added to both units at a similar cost, and on bikers you have an option to take an icon(you don't have to) where you do not on spawn. How are they more expensive? In the end I feel like it depends on what role you want them to play. I use my bikes to pop transports and dudes with 2+/3+ saves with plasma while advancing up the board, trying to snipe stuff here and there, but I agree that in cc spawn would be great, if they get to strike(I3)... I am sorry as I may not have been as clear as I thought I was. What I was trying to say is that bikes are more expensive if you want them to fullfill the same harass/multi role as spawns. I thought I said that bikers were better in their special domains (i.e. 2 melta or 2 plasma or as expensive kitted out bodyguard for a lord/sorcerer), while spawns had the abillity to threaten more targets for less cost. That was in any case what I was trying to say, and I insist that it`s hardly nonsense I am spewing here. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/263231-are-spawn-any-good/#findComment-3207145 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellrender Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 As everybody was complaining about forced challenges, and CC HQ being tanked by squad sergeants, not that long ago, i want to ask the question: Do spawns offer any protection against that (so are they characters or not). if not, then indeed, charging something with a sergeant in it, you might be bogged down a bit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/263231-are-spawn-any-good/#findComment-3207211 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Spawns can't participate in challenges, they're not characters. I've used spawns in every game I've played so far with the new Chaos (3), and they've been brutal in every game. Go with MoN unless you want to go unmarked for other reasons (fluff / escort for Lord with another mark), since MoN is really worth the extra cost. Going from T5 to T6 is huge due to the large amount of S4 in this game. Since they ignore difficult terrain, that means it's quite easy to give them a 5+ cover. 15 T6 wounds with a 5+ cover is actually pretty darn hard to get rid of reliably. They're also not to shabby in close combat. 5 Spawns can potentially dish out 40 attacks on the charge at S5! I'm playing with the idéa of fielding 3x5 MoN-Spawns and 3 Maulerfiends in a 2000-list someday. That's all your FA and HS right there, for "only" 915 pts, and they're all fast as "(/¤&@! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/263231-are-spawn-any-good/#findComment-3207492 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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