Native Fenrissians

[Bran Scalphunter]

In the 3e 'Dex there is a mention of how Fenris undergoes two massive climate changes as it continues its elliptical orbit around its sun. It goes from "hot enough to boil a man's blood" to "cold enough to freeze it in his veins" over the course of a single Fenrisian year. My understanding is that something happened to throw Fenris out of its original orbit (one similar to that of Terra's) and caused this climatological change. Possibly a shift in the Materium after Slaanesh's psychic "birth" in the Warp. This has some credence, especially considering how close Fenris is to what was once the heart of the Eldar empire and the Eye of Terror.

 

As for the wolves, I believe it was hinted at in at least a few places that the "wolves" are the results of genetic modifications on human settlers by the initial colonists that in some cases never stopped. Fenrisians are described as being shorter, stouter, and stronger than regular (as much as the term regular can be used to describe anything in 40k) humans. They also, if I remember correctly, said to have naturally leathery and more resilient skin alongside some other minor "deviances" that are accentuated by the process of becoming a Space Wolf. Going with this train of thought, Fenrisian Wolves, Blackmane Wolves, and Thunderwolves (the only named wolf species on Fenris) are the descendents of humans who continued to adapt and change in response to Fenris's near Dark Sun levels of hostility.

[Anaraion]

All good with the climate change.

 

Also you must understand that GW has retconned numerous things. The Original Leman Russ Model had two wolves with it. Then there was the quote "There are no wolves on Fenris". Which moved away from the actual animals and towards the SWs. TYhen when they decided to make TWC they kept the quote but my interpretation was this really was just what we said to off worlders to keep our secrets. Any way you want to interpret it I am sure yopu can find a some text to support your view. All just a bit too fuzzy for my brain.

 

 

Going with this train of thought, Fenrisian Wolves, Blackmane Wolves, and Thunderwolves (the only named wolf species on Fenris) are the descendents of humans who continued to adapt and change in response to Fenris's near Dark Sun levels of hostility.

 

But where did you get this? I understand a few places allude to something along these lines, but any source material you can quote?

[Bran Scalphunter]

All good with the climate change.

 

Also you must understand that GW has retconned numerous things. The Original Leman Russ Model had two wolves with it. Then there was the quote "There are no wolves on Fenris". Which moved away from the actual animals and towards the SWs. TYhen when they decided to make TWC they kept the quote but my interpretation was this really was just what we said to off worlders to keep our secrets. Any way you want to interpret it I am sure yopu can find a some text to support your view. All just a bit too fuzzy for my brain.

 

 

Going with this train of thought, Fenrisian Wolves, Blackmane Wolves, and Thunderwolves (the only named wolf species on Fenris) are the descendents of humans who continued to adapt and change in response to Fenris's near Dark Sun levels of hostility.

 

But where did you get this? I understand a few places allude to something along these lines, but any source material you can quote?

 

Speculation based on the tidbits that hinted at the genetic modification of the original Fenrisian colonists. If I could remember where I saw the fluff, I'd gladly post a link to it. Also, did not Prospero Burns mention either a Daemon or a Thousand Son Sorcerer mentioning the humanoid intelligence that it saw in a wolf during the battle? I've not read the book but I've seen something along those lines bandied around the Fang.

[Valerian]

A few random points to add to the discussion about Wolves.

 

First, the Studio has never written anything that indicates other than standard and established fluff on Fenris, its flora and fauna, and the Space Wolves over the past two decades. Despite the occassional retcon (Thunderwolf Cavalry, for example) it is all actually quite consistent.

 

Second, in addition to "Fenrisian Wolves, Blackmane Wolves, and Thunderwolves (the only named wolf species on Fenris)" there are also Grey Wolves as a named wolf species on Fenris, and they are how the Grey Hunters get their name.

 

Third, the quote, "there are no Wolves on Fenris" has caused tons of debate over recent years, but it must be put into context. For one, it is a single line in a single novel, and it not further elaborated on by the author; until he fesses up, we can't know what he was trying to convey to the readers, and are left only with guesses and supposition. Next, it is important that we think about who made that statement to put it further into context, and we know it was made by the primary antogonist, Magnus the Red. We really don't know why he said it, and what his purpose might have been, and we certainly don't know whether it was true or deception, or if it was supposed to be symbolic, or metaphorical.

 

Lastly, as far as the inhuman intelligence seen in the eyes of the Wolves of Fenris, well, we already know a few things about that. One is that all species of Fenrisian Wolves are more akin to alien wolf-like monsters than they are like true wolves (i.e. Terran Wolves). We also know that there are hyper-intelligent psychic foxes on Fenris that lay traps as one example of the deathworld fauna. Should it really surprise anyone that Fenrisian Wolves might have a terrible cunning that no mere "animal" should?

 

Regards,

 

Valerian

[Hafdan]

Lastly, as far as the inhuman intelligence seen in the eyes of the Wolves of Fenris, well, we already know a few things about that. One is that all species of Fenrisian Wolves are more akin to alien wolf-like monsters than they are like true wolves (i.e. Terran Wolves). We also know that there are hyper-intelligent psychic foxes on Fenris that lay traps as one example of the deathworld fauna. Should it really surprise anyone that Fenrisian Wolves might have a terrible cunning that no mere "animal" should?

 

Not if they're really daemons parading as wolves :)

[Valerian]

Lastly, as far as the inhuman intelligence seen in the eyes of the Wolves of Fenris, well, we already know a few things about that. One is that all species of Fenrisian Wolves are more akin to alien wolf-like monsters than they are like true wolves (i.e. Terran Wolves). We also know that there are hyper-intelligent psychic foxes on Fenris that lay traps as one example of the deathworld fauna. Should it really surprise anyone that Fenrisian Wolves might have a terrible cunning that no mere "animal" should?

 

Not if they're really daemons parading as wolves ;)

 

Where is the evidence that they could be Daemons? With what we know of Daemons it would be impossible, anyway, as Daemons are inextricably tied to the Warp, and can only maintain tenuous and temporary ties to the material universe.

 

Valerian

[Hafdan]

Where is the evidence that they could be Daemons? With what we know of Daemons it would be impossible, anyway, as Daemons are inextricably tied to the Warp, and can only maintain tenuous and temporary ties to the material universe.

 

Valerian

 

I dunno, they have an entire chapter of Space Marines using them for a mascot. Thats kind of like active worship. Definately a lot of psychic juju to keep them around. See, Daemons. :)

[-Volsung-]

I do like that mysterious concept of Fenrisian wolves being Wulfen who reached their evolutionary apex.

 

First of all, it gives the Space Wolves a bit of enigma.

 

Space Wolves are definitely cool, mean, tough sons of :D , and adorable (in a bro-ey, manly kinda way. I mean, come on! the old wolf guard that makes the little blood claw's life miserable in the tavern but goes out of his way to find him behind enemy lines under pretense of the claw still owing him a drink! He cares about his little bro!)

 

But mystery, we do not have, and that's definitely a novel concept.

[Anaraion]

Thanks Valerian and Volsung. I went back and checked some things in my old codexs and clearly I had misremembered a thing or two concerning our flora and fauna... /bow.

 

As for our intelligent wolves questionable ancestory and "there are no Wolves on Fenris" statement...

 

a little mystery can clearly go a long way :lol:.

[Hafdan]

Space Wolves are definitely cool, mean, tough sons of :cry: , and adorable (in a bro-ey, manly kinda way. I mean, come on! the old wolf guard that makes the little blood claw's life miserable in the tavern but goes out of his way to find him behind enemy lines under pretense of the claw still owing him a drink! He cares about his little bro!)

 

Anyone that has brothers can appreciate this. It is definately a case of "its ok for me to pick on him, but if you try, we're going to have a serious problem."

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Space Wolves are definitely cool, mean, tough sons of ^_^ , and adorable (in a bro-ey, manly kinda way. I mean, come on! the old wolf guard that makes the little blood claw's life miserable in the tavern but goes out of his way to find him behind enemy lines under pretense of the claw still owing him a drink! He cares about his little bro!)

 

Anyone that has brothers can appreciate this. It is definately a case of "its ok for me to pick on him, but if you try, we're going to have a serious problem."

 

Oh yea. I cant count the amount of fights my brothers dragged me into, and those i dragged them into!

 

its good to have two brothers...most of the time.

 

WLK

[-Volsung-]

Yeah dude! I still remember my brother kicking this guy down a two-story escalator in the mall when he picked on me as a kid...

 

I'll take that memory to my dying days! ;)

[Krake]

As for Priests coming down and socializing, doubtful

 

Perhaps you should pick up your codex again and read Rites of Initiation (page 10)

On Fenris, strangers stalk the lands of men. In the long halls, tales are told of mysterious wanderers who arrive in the depths of winter and challenge the strongest and most boastful of the tribesmen to bouts of strength and drinking.

They are a frightening sight - huge, burly warriors with burning eyes, cloaked in the pelts of Wolves of Fenris.

The strangers always outwrestle the strongest warriors and outdrink the staunchest. Once they have fought every challenger they pick the most worthy and take them away into the dark, never to be seen again

 

Talk about hangovers...

[Bjorn Firewalker]

I do like that mysterious concept of Fenrisian wolves being Wulfen who reached their evolutionary apex.

Considering there are no female Space Marines, it begs the question, "Who did the Wulfen breed with, to spawn so many Fenrisian wolves?" Could Wulfen breed with regular (female) wolves?

[greysquigg]

I do like that mysterious concept of Fenrisian wolves being Wulfen who reached their evolutionary apex.

Considering there are no female Space Marines, it begs the question, "Who did the Wulfen breed with, to spawn so many Fenrisian wolves?" Could Wulfen breed with regular (female) wolves?

 

 

That is a good point actually..

 

Maybe they just pop out of the ground!!

 

GS

[Hafdan]

Considering there are no female Space Marines, it begs the question, "Who did the Wulfen breed with, to spawn so many Fenrisian wolves?" Could Wulfen breed with regular (female) wolves?

 

See? Daemons. They're warp spawn. Or the product of some kind of weird, mutant bestiality uncomfortable mental image....thing. ;)

[-Volsung-]

Don't Space Wolves sleep with chapter serf wenches and waitresses who serve the food and ale during feasts? Why not, right?

 

I recall in the codex or one of the novels one of the wolf lord is known to flirt with the wenches and what not, to the annoyances of non-Fenrisian guests such as Inquisitors and Administratum agents. I wouldn't be surprised.

 

This answers the question, potentially, that Space Marines are not neutered. At least, not the Wolves. We keep our jewels? :)

 

After all, any references to Marine celibacy is likely associated with the Codex Astartes. We wolves raised the middle to that book long ago, so... Wolves can sleep with anyone they please?

 

If the Wulfen have truly become real wolves, I can't see why they wouldn't copulate with normal Terran she-wolves.

[Wulfebane]

I think its just another overanalized phrase buried in a sea of inconsistencies.

[Valerian]

Way back in the day, our own DV8 provided one of the best responses to the "No Wolves on Fenris" enigma, that I haven't seen topped yet:

 

 

There are some interesting thoughts and theories here. Some I agree with, some I do not. I have just finished reading Prospero Burns, and a lot of it is fresh in my mind. So what are the facts that we know?

 

Leman Russ, the Wolf King, landed on Fenris and for a while was raised by a pack of Wolves.

 

Quoting p. 282, from Prospero Burns

 

"Try to keep up, skjald. There were no wolves on Fenris until we got here."

Longfang looked back at the wolf.

"Twice he's helped protect you," he said.

"What?" asked Hawser.

"He had a different name last time you were in his company," said Longfang. "Then, he was called Brom"

 

Recalling thus the opening of the novel, Hawser's flight from the murder-make of the Balt and the Hradcana. He was accompanied by several of the Ascommani: Fith, Guthox, Brom and Lern.

 

When Bear (whom we find out at the end is actually Bjorn) eventually rescues them, Hawser pleads and "bargains" with Bjorn to take the Ascommani with him. We fast forward a few chapters and we find that Fith has been made Astartes, thus named Fith Godsmote. We can naturally assume that the Ascommani were put through the trials. Fith succeeded. Brom evidently did not.

 

We have separate collaborations, most importantly from Magnus the Red, the Crimson King, that indeed there are "no wolves on Fenris."

 

The initial factor that Leman Russ was raised by a pack of Fenrisian Wolves (of which two remain at his side, Freki and Geri) indicates strongly to me that there were indeed wolves on Fenris before the Emperor found Russ, before the Space Wolves made Fenris their homeworld.

 

Let's not forget too that Heoroth Longfang is a Terran-borne Astartes. When he says "until we got here...", he could just as easily be referring to the Terran elements of the Sixth Legion, as he could be metaphorically referring to the Legion itself, playing on the fact that they are referred to by outsiders as the "Space Wolves".

 

Recall earlier also that Skarsi mentions the Legion doesn't refer to themselves as Space Wolves. They call themselves the Vlka Fenryka (formally) or the Rout (informally). Thus the term Space Wolves is a term outsiders have placed upon the Legion, perhaps drawing upon their close connections with the wolves on Fenris.

 

Throughout the novel, the Sixth is always mentioned as uncivilized barbarians to outsiders, a fact that the Legion draws upon to their advantage. This lie hides the cunning and ruthlessness of the Sixth and is, in a manner of speaking, a weapon of war they employ to great advantage. There is a strong dichotomy with the mannerisms of Russ and his Legion, whereupon Russ expounds on the fact that he wants his opponents to know what is coming to annihilate them. And yet they use the external (and false) perceptions that have been built around their Legion to their advantage, in whatever field of war they happen upon.

 

In all the Horus Heresy novels to date, we have been shown that the Astartes are not as simple as we may think, and their respective premogenitors, the Primarchs, very much less so. There is a depth to them than is visible from the surface, and there is no reason to think that any less can be said of what they say.

 

Thus the saying "There are no wolves on Fenris," can be used to refer to a great many number of things at once, all of them true, without relying on any one particular answer.

 

It can refer to the fact that the Sixth Legion have been named Space "Wolves", and that indeed the Wolves did not exist on Fenris until the Emperor re-found Russ and established Fenris as their homeworld.

 

It can refer to the idea that, while wolves may have once existed on Fenris, they have long since died out, and indeed the only wolves left are the mutations and were-kind that result from failed aspirants and those who are Wulfen-touched (as we can see with Brom).

 

Drawing on Longfang's addition "until we got here" can allow the phrase to refer to what the wolf represents, as a pack-predator, a hunter. Hawser plays a crucial role in this interpretation because of his fear of wolves from his experience as a child. Wolves, therefore, are the monsters that go bump in the night, that haunt your dreams and give meaning and substance to your fears.

 

In any case I think it is this mysticism that gives such depth to the phrase, because there is no direct, literal meaning. There is depth to it and the ominous mystery that it gives is merely another tool that the Sixth uses as a tool of war.

 

 

DV8

 

Valerian

[Wulfebane]

I miss DV8.

[captain fabian]

I miss DV8.

 

 

Yeah even I can remember him and I wasn't here until 2008. Where is he now? Did he leave the forum?

[Russ Brother 92]

I miss DV8.

 

 

Yeah even I can remember him and I wasn't here until 2008. Where is he now? Did he leave the forum?

 

DV8 as far as I know still floats about but RL is more about than forum usage (one of the older guys will probs know more) - he was still around a few months back :P