RAW VS RAI

[FallenOne]

So, what do you guys think about a couple of the rules with noise marines?

 

RAW: Noise champion

 

must trade bolt pistol for CC weapon, since they can't buy a close combat weapon to trade to buy from the wargear list. Only way to get a pistol and CC weapon is to get a plasma pistol and power weapon of some type...

 

Noise Champion can't take a sonic blaster.

 

RAI: ??

 

I think this will be FAQ'd. They have been selling a close combat load out for the the champion since 1996, and they have a conversion pack for one now.

 

1 per 10.....

 

RAW: ??

 

RAI: ??

 

On several websites, Warseer, BoLS, 1D4chan, etc., this is a hot topic. Several people on each board are arguing for the sacred number to be upheld, and it's 1 blastmaster up to 10 models, due to the wording in the cultists, and terminator entry, plus the other codexes

 

I think this will be FAQ'd to make it 1 per full squad of 10, due to the ignore cover thinkg.

 

Noise Marines and no CC weapon

 

RAW: buy a bolt pistol OR trade bolter for a CC weapon/ trade bolter for a sonic blaster

 

RAI: ??

 

Do you all think they meant for the noise marine to lose any close combat ability, losing the advantage of having the MoS?

 

I think this will be FAQ'd and fixed.

 

What do you all think?

[Brother RedAxe]

Personally I think the noise champion is a noise marine as well since he wasn't just to you are a champion now led these guys for the glory of the legion. Sohe should be able to take any of the upgrades avaiable to noise marines.

[dswanick]

Personally I think the noise champion is a noise marine as well since he wasn't just to you are a champion now led these guys for the glory of the legion. Sohe should be able to take any of the upgrades avaiable to noise marines.

The problem with that approach is that GW hasn't written it's codexes that way, in the past. They have always differentiated Sergeants, and their options, from the other members of a squad. As well, they've always differentiated any unusual member of a squad and never allowed such members access to general unit options - see Apothecaries, Champions, etc...

[Sception]

I think the champion will be FAQ'd to make the standard model they sell legal. The rest I don't think is changing. It seems Noise marines will either be close combat equipped Init 5 chaos marines with AP3 flamers & fearless OR will be an objective camping shooty squad with ignores cover salvo weapons, but not both. At least, not in 6e. Or rather, not both on the same model, I guess you can run mixed squads.

[Hannibal.Lictor]

The way things are listed in the codex is different from the other dexes as far as Cult champs are concerned. I read it as the Champ is a normal dude with the option for some other upgrades; sonic with doom siren. I also am leaning torwards the idea that the one per 10 is different from the the if the squad numbers 10 thing. So if you have 11 dudes thats 2 Blasters, or a 5 man with a blastmaster. The CSM entry says if the unit numbers ten or more, then one model may take:. This makes me pretty solidly stand on my hill and challenge the naysayers.

[Xenith]

The way things are listed in the codex is different from the other dexes as far as Cult champs are concerned. I read it as the Champ is a normal dude with the option for some other upgrades; sonic with doom siren. I also am leaning torwards the idea that the one per 10 is different from the the if the squad numbers 10 thing. So if you have 11 dudes thats 2 Blasters, or a 5 man with a blastmaster. The CSM entry says if the unit numbers ten or more, then one model may take:. This makes me pretty solidly stand on my hill and challenge the naysayers.

If the FAQ lets me take 12 man 2 blast master squads I will be very happy.

[JamesI]

The way things are listed in the codex is different from the other dexes as far as Cult champs are concerned. I read it as the Champ is a normal dude with the option for some other upgrades; sonic with doom siren. I also am leaning torwards the idea that the one per 10 is different from the the if the squad numbers 10 thing. So if you have 11 dudes thats 2 Blasters, or a 5 man with a blastmaster. The CSM entry says if the unit numbers ten or more, then one model may take:. This makes me pretty solidly stand on my hill and challenge the naysayers.

If you don't have 10 guys, how can 1 per 10 apply?

[Seahawk]

The blastmaster one is easy, just reverse the two parts of the sentence. This is simple grammar and knowing what "per" means in this context. :)

 

"For every ten models, one Noise Marine may replace his boltgun with a blastmaster."

 

Exact same meaning, and bam. For each full set of 10 models, you get a blastmaster that only a Noise Marine (NOT Noise Champion) can take. That does not mean two blastmasters with 11 total models, it means you'll need 20 models to get 2 blastmasters.

 

As for the Noise Champion, he's simply SOL unless the FAQ gives him a Close Combat Weapon. He is not a Noise Marine; these are two categorically different models with different stats. They did this for the LotD sergeant in C:SM, because the first sculpted sergeant was otherwise impossible to actually have. They'll do the same here, never fear!

[Cptn. Palladorus]

That or they'll release the rumored new NM kit.

[AekoldHelbrass]

I think the champion will be FAQ'd to make the standard model they sell legal.

 

If you'll look closer at the model they're selling you'll see a Plasma Pistol there, so it's completely legal.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/...dId=prod1090256

[Kerrai]

Chaos Space Marine Emperor's Children Lord != Noise Marine Champion?

 

The old box had a Power Sword + Bolt Pistol Champion, and its hopefully and probably just an oversight

and a missed line in the unit entry

[Cptn. Palladorus]

The old box did, but the old box is gone and even though the bitz pack comes with just a power sword the CSM box includes at least one plasma pistol arm doesn't it?

[makesomenoise]

I looked it over and under. The aurgument can be made 2 ways. The first is that the champion is included under the heading of "noise marines" and so is a noise marine upgrade. The second is that he is an upgrade and so may not have the same options.

 

For those who are less flexible.... take the power sword by replacing the bolt pistol. Replace the bolter "being one weapon" with a plasma pistol. You now have your noise champion geared for close combat.

 

Not too bad actually. Have fun.

 

I also emailed GW for a direct ruling. I WILL post the response =)

[Cptn. Palladorus]

I looked it over and under. The aurgument can be made 2 ways. The first is that the champion is included under the heading of "noise marines" and so is a noise marine upgrade. The second is that he is an upgrade and so may not have the same options.

He is not an upgrade. He is a distinct model with a distinct name and profile and a separate set of options from the rest of the squad. He's no more an upgrade than a Runtherd is in a Gretchin squad.

[makesomenoise]

That's the way i'm handling it now personally. Working with in the confines of the written rules to produce a noise champion with a plasma pistol, power sword, doom siren and melta bombs. I don't see a problem doing it that way. But if some one was to come to a game with a bolt pistol and power sword noise champion I wouldn't throw a fit either. I would point out the wording and ask that unless FAQ'd or errated they do it the way I have next time.

 

All in all noise marines are still beasts, the addition of the plasma pistol just gives them some light armour poping or a decent anti 2+ shot. Fully kitted the squad is either rocking bolters,bolt pistols and CCW or sonic blasters, the blast master is good for either assaulty or stand and shoot squads and the champion is a vicious deterent as well as a scary champion slayer. All rolled up with hatred space marines and feel no pain...

 

If i gotta take a plasma pistol.. big whoop. Lol.