Night Lords

[Kol Saresk]

Basically, what do the Night Lords fans* think of their Legion? What is your opinion? Do you like how they are portrayed? What is your personal opinion of them? Do you only think of them in terms of the tabletop, fluff, both or neither? What is your opinion? Do you think of them as the thing that goes bump in the night? Or doo you think of them as monster that makes other things go bump in the night as they run away?

 

Note: This is not excluded to "fans". Anyone willing to answer and share their thoughts and opinions is allowed to.

[Olis]

Back before A D-B's trilogy, I'd always considered the Night Lords to be generic chaos marines that were only interested in scaring folks out of their skin. Now that I've read that trilogy, the character of the Legion is much more rounded, and somewhat more desperate, in my mind. They've gone from chaos marines in it for the giggles to a mish mash of nutters and those that barely keep them calm who have to take supplies into consideration every single time they fight. They've gone from generic villains to interesting survivalists (inasmuch space marines can be).

[Spaz431]

Kol, as a fan of chaos, my first choice was Emperor's Children. I thought the idea of an over the top with all that made space marines ... Well space marines intriguing. But then I began reading the background on the Night Lords and the books written by ADB. I full enjoy the fluff of the army. Playing them on table is however a difficult idea. My idea for table purposes is a very PURE warband. No possessed. No obliterators. No spawn. And no princes. Sorcerrors are relegated to pyro and divination if I employ one. I know I am defying my own rule by including warp talons, but those models scream Night Lords at the top of their lungs whilst doing a Mexican hat dance on a victims entrails.

[Ifrit446]

Kol, my first legion to play was Alpha Legion back in 3.5 when they were specialized and had their own ruleset. At that point, I saw the Night Lords as simple hit-and-run tactic users that focused on fast attacks and retreating back to the shadows. Then Soul Hunter came along and the game changed. When I first saw the cover, I knew that ADB was going to rewrite the rules to their game and it chilled me with excitement.

 

5 Novels later and the greatest legion of all time came into existence. The Night Lords now arent just "generic traitors" so much as they are the sons of a Legion that everyone in the galaxy loathes. I see them as a variety of things now, some of them including pirates/looters desperate for survival, a legion built to simply slaughter and kill everyone as a :huh: to the imperials, and then I see them as a self-hating legion of killers bent on bleeding the imperium because the emperor betrayed them (which is true).

 

To me, they are the monsters that are justified, a kind of "necessary" evil committed for a crime against them, and they murder the innocent as a way to remind the imperium of that. While I also believe that the legion is corrupted and many are just psychopaths who aim to kill and slaughter because they can, there are those among them who do it for a PURPOSE (even if they are all different such as Acerbus, Sevatar, Talos) and this makes their story so much loveable and believable to me as a player. Theres even a point where I read an alternate heresy story and (no joke) I almost cried when I read that Curze was able to save Nostramo rather than burning it and it was such a happy feeling.

 

ALTHOUGH I am loyal to the Alphas (first army ever), the Night Lords are a twin interest to me and I will most likely use more of them to join my Alphas in bleeding out the Imperium at some point or other.

 

I hope this helps Kol,

-Ifrit

[Vesper]

Night Lords are really unique in the 40k universe.

Super-murderers, predators in the night, all that stuff. Yet, they don't feel like an actual military force. They mostly feel like pirates, raiders... And well, nothing more. They don't get victories, they don't achieve (or even try to achieve) anything meaningful. When they got to fight, they lose most of the time. That's the tragedy of the Night Lords. They do nothing more that try to survive, because that's all they have left, that's the only reason that keeps most of them going.

Makes sense, the legion in broken, there's no real leadership to unite all the warbands and such.

[Kol Saresk]

Kol, my first legion to play was Alpha Legion back in 3.5 when they were specialized and had their own ruleset. At that point, I saw the Night Lords as simple hit-and-run tactic users that focused on fast attacks and retreating back to the shadows. Then Soul Hunter came along and the game changed. When I first saw the cover, I knew that ADB was going to rewrite the rules to their game and it chilled me with excitement.

 

5 Novels later and the greatest legion of all time came into existence. The Night Lords now arent just "generic traitors" so much as they are the sons of a Legion that everyone in the galaxy loathes. I see them as a variety of things now, some of them including pirates/looters desperate for survival, a legion built to simply slaughter and kill everyone as a "F*** you" to the imperials, and then I see them as a self-hating legion of killers bent on bleeding the imperium because the emperor betrayed them (which is true).

 

To me, they are the monsters that are justified, a kind of "necessary" evil committed for a crime against them, and they murder the innocent as a way to remind the imperium of that. While I also believe that the legion is corrupted and many are just psychopaths who aim to kill and slaughter because they can, there are those among them who do it for a PURPOSE (even if they are all different such as Acerbus, Sevatar, Talos) and this makes their story so much loveable and believable to me as a player. Theres even a point where I read an alternate heresy story and (no joke) I almost cried when I read that Curze was able to save Nostramo rather than burning it and it was such a happy feeling.

 

ALTHOUGH I am loyal to the Alphas (first army ever), the Night Lords are a twin interest to me and I will most likely use more of them to join my Alphas in bleeding out the Imperium at some point or other.

 

I hope this helps Kol,

-Ifrit

"Helping" isn't exactly the point lol, but I do thank you for the concern. I was just wondering what others thought. Out of curioisty, when say Acerbus the Daemon Prince, do you perhaps mean Sahaal since he is in a list of people who kill for a purpose?

[Lord Ragnarok]

I like that the Night Lords are absolutely terrifying without being associated with Chaos.

[Emperors Immortals]

My first army was chaos waaaay back in 2nd ed (1993 IIRC) and I was rather taken by a particular colour scheme employing liberal doses of lightning and skulls then the IA hit and I went pure world eaters for over 10 difficult but tewarding years. My new army is skyaras dark wolves and they retain that NL scheme I love so much.

 

To me the NL are the absolute pinnacle of terror for the imperium, they cannot be bought fought or predicted precisely because they already fulfill there own need for meaning - terror. ADB has done a stellar job to add humanity to amoral psychopaths which is an amazingly difficult thing to write no matter the setting, I see the legion now as what they need to be fully realised existentialists, instead of believing in nothing they embrace everything in a killers grip and then act only on what will make them stronger and better able to continue there homicidal campaign.

 

They are unique , CSM fighting with no hope for future reward beyond continued existance and with the knowledge every act they perpetrate cannot ever make right what has happened. Wether the imperium or abaddon wins the long war is secondary to how much they canbleed first.

[Ifrit446]

"Helping" isn't exactly the point lol, but I do thank you for the concern. I was just wondering what others thought. Out of curioisty, when say Acerbus the Daemon Prince, do you perhaps mean Sahaal since he is in a list of people who kill for a purpose?

 

Kind of, I know that Sahaal had a purpose too, but Acerbus had his own purpose as well. He said that Fear was his end, so he leads the Night Lords in order to achieve that goal rather than just to survive the fight. And I apologize that "hope it helps" comment, it wasnt meant like that :cuss

[Kol Saresk]

Okay gotcha now. And don't worry, no apologies needed.

[Brother Kirus]

Very interesting topic!

 

I was a big Night Lord fan even before Black Library published Aaron’s awesome books about this legion. But I have to admit that at that time NL character was not really fleshed out. The only book that we had was “Lord of the Night” and in my personal opinion it was a bit childish…

 

For me, Night Hunter and Night Lords in general were based on Col. Kurtz from “Heart of Darkness”. Sort of ruthless madness but with its own cense of honor. They are evil only from the prospective of modern code of morality. If these kinds of individuals lived 2k-3k years ago people would have called them kings or warlords. NL are truly free individuals who are guided by their own understanding of morality and honor. They follow no one and fight for their own goals.

 

After I read the NL trilogy my view on the legion didn’t change much. Aaron Dembski-Bowden managed to bring this legion even closer to my heart. His description of life on Nostramo reminded me a lot of Russia in 1990’s… When I read that part of the book I could easily imagine myself in place of Talos… I was lucky enough to meet Aaron at US GD this year and tell him how much I appreciate his development of my favorite legion and his BL work in general.

[Brother Keyaetus]

I love the night lords, and for an odd reason..

 

If I was an astartes...I'd feel safest being a night lord...choose battles on your terms...always going for the weak and unarmed...fights you know you will win, no need to chance your arm against those who may kill you in an equal fight.

[Mykra]

Basically, what do the Night Lords fans* think of their Legion? What is your opinion? Do you like how they are portrayed? What is your personal opinion of them? Do you only think of them in terms of the tabletop, fluff, both or neither?

 

I picked up the Night Lords in 2E as my 'other' army, after reading the Chaos codex and loving the NL stories inside it.

 

My opinion seems to be in the minority of the fans of the Legion in that I think there is no one portrayal you can give of them, and every warband has it's own set of values that defines what the Legion is and was without discrediting the other viewpoints. You have warband's completely and totally enslaved to the Chaos forces, led by Daemon Princes and using a ton of Daemons. Then on the opposite spectrum you have others eking out a fading existence holding onto a false-image of a more 'pure' Legion, stealing and bullying to get by. Ones that exist simply to spite their enemies, others who just want to survive, groups who have left the 'old' Legion behind and fallen in with the more powerful Chaos Warlords, and more.

 

I like how they have been presented in multiple directions over the past several years as the three main Captains we have seen highlight alternate (and all correct) views of the Legion. You have Zso Sahaal who didn't get to see any of the real corruption the Legion endured after the Haunter, and believed completely the Emperor betrayed him and his Legion and their war was 'right', using fear only as a weapon, not the purpose of being. Krieg Acerbus believed the Legion existed only to cause fear and drink in the terror, and believed the Haunter was dark and twisted and simply wanted to inflict as much pain as possible. Krieg obviously didn't hold to any sort of puritanical belief concerning the Warp or the Legion, and used it fully. And then you have Talos, no more correct than the other two, who kept the belief in a vision of the Night Lords that was actually very close to Sahaal's, a different kind of naivete, but still a more pure and 'positive' view of his Primarch and Legion that set him apart from the other two (and even his own Company). Sevatar is another Captain that I'm paying close attention to as I think he's dangerously (awesomely) close to providing another view of the Legion, of the sons of the eighth who believed Kurze and the Legion were a lie, and just kept fighting because it was really all they had left other than dying out.

 

I'm of the belief that just about anything is 'fluffy' if you can make a good story that lists the reasons. So I'm not sure I have any restrictive balance in me, instead using what I like, performs well, and I enjoy converting and painting up.

[Brother Ambroz]

Night Lords are really unique in the 40k universe.

Super-murderers, predators in the night, all that stuff. Yet, they don't feel like an actual military force. They mostly feel like pirates, raiders... And well, nothing more. They don't get victories, they don't achieve (or even try to achieve) anything meaningful. When they got to fight, they lose most of the time. That's the tragedy of the Night Lords. They do nothing more that try to survive, because that's all they have left, that's the only reason that keeps most of them going.

Makes sense, the legion in broken, there's no real leadership to unite all the warbands and such.

 

That's ADB's Night Lords. I bet a fair amount still have reasons to fight and supplies.

[Kol Saresk]

Night Lords are really unique in the 40k universe.

Super-murderers, predators in the night, all that stuff. Yet, they don't feel like an actual military force. They mostly feel like pirates, raiders... And well, nothing more. They don't get victories, they don't achieve (or even try to achieve) anything meaningful. When they got to fight, they lose most of the time. That's the tragedy of the Night Lords. They do nothing more that try to survive, because that's all they have left, that's the only reason that keeps most of them going.

Makes sense, the legion in broken, there's no real leadership to unite all the warbands and such.

 

That's ADB's Night Lords. I bet a fair amount still have reasons to fight and supplies.

Both are true, There is Krieg Acerbus who is supposed to have command of the largest reported and he only attacks for the sheer pleasure and was regarded as a big enough threat that a Craftworld found a way to sick him on an Imperial world so they could live. And there is also Tarraq Darkblood from the 13th Black Crusade.

 

But like I said, this about people's opinions so there is no right or wrong answer.

[space wolf]

Started in 2nd ed, Looked through the Chaos codex, and really they were the only legion I liked. Mainly because they seemed the most unique. Liked them ever since. Only took until 6th ed for me to start a NL army. :cuss

[AekoldHelbrass]

I've started my Night Lords after Lord of the Night, and I imagine them quite different from Aarons novels. For me they are not just another marines, not a bunch of criminals, and not some nice guys we can see in Soul Hunter (third books kind of tried to fix that, but maybe I'm wrong). For me they are abominations, The Legion that Emperor himself couldn't think without "Hell, what have I done?". They are not just dangerous guys, who are scary because they will murder you, for me they are terror incarnate, that kind of terror that makes victims lose their mind in the first place, and only then maybe life too. And for me they fight not for stuff and survival, for me they are overwhelmed by hatred, they were made tools and were disposed, and they not just want to get stuff, run and survive, for me they would better die if that will bring death to more slaves of the false emperor. That's the reason I really like "One Hate" by Aaron, absolutely awesome short story.

 

But then Norstamo fell, and legion was filled with simple criminals. By that time Night Haunter gone mad, and new recruits haven't got that spirit and passion of Night Haunter, they just learned to kill better, and became that picture of Night Lords we can see in most warbands - get some material wealth to survive or trade and run away.

 

That's why I'm writing background for my warband as it was separated into isolate expeditionary fleet, tasked with returning rebelling worlds back to the light of the Emperor, and last gift from Night Haunter before he gone totally mad were gene-seed facilities, to stay isolated from Nostramman recruits and find own way to abduct and indoctrinate novices.

 

I call my type of Night Lords "old school Night Lords", because they are not pure as in "noble" as Zso Sahaal looked like, and not pure as "mutation-free", but pure as "Night Lords always belonged to darkness, long before Horus Heresy erupted".

 

And now I clearly see about 4 generations of Night Lords players. First generation are guys who started in 2nd edition, inspired by chaotic nature of Night Lords. Second are those inspired by Lord of the Night, as myself. Third inspired by Aarons books, depicting degrading warband of egoistic criminals who cannot work together properly. And right now there are few very young novices in our gaming community, fourth generation, who think of Night Lords as in Batman, noble heroes of the night, tragically wronged before Horus Heresy and fallen from grace, which makes me very sad.

[Sanctimonius]

It's hard to define what the Night Lords are, since they mean different things to different people. Depending on how early you adopted them (or vice versa...) you have a different starting point for what a Night Lord is. Add to which we have a number of excellent stories fleshing out their character both during the Heresy and in the current timeline from ADB (if you haven't read them I strongly recommend you do). But there's no denying that there are numerous varieties of warbands that call themselves Night Lords.

 

I think a part of this is they lack a strong leader while retaining a strong identity. ADB touches on this a lot in his books. Picture this - you are the member of an elite legion and you fight side by side with your mentor and progenitor. You are taught that only through fear is man governable. Without fear he will rise and cast you down, contemptuous of your weakness and indulgence. No other legion shares this notion, and you embrace it to be your own. Now, know that your lord and master is insane and filled with self-loathing, yet is fully determined to prove that his world-view, his notion of not only humanity, but the Imperium, is correct, more correct than any of his brothers'. He says that the Imperium rules with strength but also with fear, and he and his sons embody this. That ultimately, regardless of the pretty words and long speeches, all that matters is that they fear you. He was willing to die to prove this point, sacrificing himself to show that the Imperium is as base as he is, and keep in mind he knew this the day he met the Emperor. To the Night Lords, they were betrayed by the Imperium, not the other way around.

 

After this the legion fragments in a wholly unique way, as the chosen few of the Haunter forge their own paths into the Universe. Remember after the Heresy the Lords alone remained outside the Eye, and they banded together as pirates and raiders to survive after the death of their father. Other legions fled and licked their wounds, being forged anew in the Eye. Other legions turned to outside influences, the Chaos gods, to give them strength and guidance, or kept to the Long War, refighting to conquer Terra. The Night Lords, alone, remained pure, keeping to their own ways of life, their own codes of morality, and looking down on those that chose the easy heresy, chose to worship the Chaos gods, chose to give up their will to that of another. That's not to say the Night Lords don't have members who chose to follow one or another of the gods, but as a whole, as a legion, they eschew the sanctuary of religion their zealot brethren chose. The Night Lords fight their own war for their own reasons, for ten thousand years. They don't fight to satisfy the schemes of a daemon-primarch or one of the gods of Chaos, they don't fight to bring back some golden age of the Imperium, they fight because the Imperium is just as cruel, as corrupt, as pathetic as their father said it was and would become, and they prove this upon the bodies of those who follow the Corpse-God.

 

The Night Lords are terror incarnate, they were betrayed by the very forces that crafted them this way, and they will have their revenge.

 

As for rules representing them....meh. It's hard to create a set of rules that can accurately portray the Chaos Legions all in one book, especially if you want to really set them all apart from each other. But you can have fun trying.. I like the 'pure' warband idea above me, I've been thinking of something similar.

[diabloelmo]

I have a slightly different take on the Night Lords than what has been said here. I'll admit, I first got into playing the 8th legion due to A D-B's books, but really wanted to take them in a different direction. So I trawled through fluff, new and old, and I think I have found my solution.

 

My particular warband have been heavily tainted by their association with the forces of Chaos, as one does not need to worship the gods to be affected by them. Rather, their sheer enjoyment of causing pants-wetting terror in the servants of the Throne have brought them to the attention of Slaanesh, who has given them a rather interesting 'gift' - they can actually taste and become energised by the fear of their victims, and get the shakes something terrible when they go too long without scaring the hell out of someone. I represent this by giving most of my army the Mark of Slaanesh, even though none of them worship the Dark Prince (well, at least not openly...)

 

The basic idea of this was taken from the character Cyrion from A D-B's books, but having a much stronger effect. Spread over most of the warband and turned into a psudo-drug dependency, I think it really speaks of my perception of the 8th legion. They love killing and causing mayhem in the empire they helped to build that they feel subsequently betrayed them so much, that they are not all that picky about their tools. And Chaos is just that to them - a weapon. Sure, it might have some "interesting" side-effects, but it is rather effective at getting the job done. And you don't need to sell your soul to malignant deities to make use of it, you just have to pay whatever price is needed - usually the souls of a pile of slaves.

[Dammeron]

Perhaps bizarrely, the one word that comes to mind when I think of the Night Lords is "pure," by which I mean that, unlike most other forces in 40K, they don't seem to generally evince any pretensions or delusions as to why they murder, maim, beat and destroy. Everyone from the Imperium to the Eldar, from the Space Wolves to the Word Bearers, seems intent on justifying their patently horrendous actions and attitudes with some form of high strung philosophy or moral dogma. Not the Night Lords; they do it because they like it, because they were built for it, and that's that. They are acting precisely according to their proscribed and predetermined natures. In that regard, they stand as the single purest Space Marine legion, arguably the purest force in the 40K universe, outside of the Tyranids.

[Hellrender]

I do like the Night Lords best aswell, in their cause of causing sheer terror. My warband is indeed very similar to the one above, altough more diverse. They use chaos to cause the most terror (not worship!), and each and every one, is addicted to fear, indeed much based on Cyrion from ADB's books.

Altough my guys are cowards, and tend to not attack any fortified defensive positions, and try to avoid astartes as much as possible. Mostly they attack aggra worlds, and other back water planets. If they do attack astartes, its always in their favor, the whole 500 strong, vs half a company, and ofc completly ambushed, and then they crush them completly. They normally flee before loyalist armies can be assembled, but if they do get caught, they easily sacrifice all their slaves to get away. They tend to lose engagements not on their terms... But due to the fleeing, their wargear is top notch :cuss, they never use it properly.

 

That is my view of the Night Lords, but i think it does only work because there are so many other versions to contrast it.

[Hellrender]

stupid slow computer double posting >.<

[Brother Captain Kezef]

Sometimes i can really get annoyed with A-D-B

 

I've been a follower of Nurgle for chaos-side for years, I love the whole despair angle. Then A-D-B tempted me to Lorgar's creed with first heretic, his Nightlords trilogy shattered the foundations of my loyalty to papa Nurgle and after reading Prince of Crows I'm left reeling.

 

That man can write!

 

I'm still going to focus on death Guard but the way he's re-created two legions is bloody awesome and I just love how the Nightlords turned out, their individualism and culture is just amazing now. You sit there and try to nail them down, they are souless, torturing pyschopaths yet they can show a strange sense of sentimentality to their servants while skinning alive babies. They are walking contradictions, fearless, superhuman warriors yet they do know fear, they understand it, feel it and utilise it as a weapon.

 

just an awesome legion really, all thanks to A-D-B.

 

I just hope that whoever gets the Death Guard novel can do justice to them as A-D-B has done justice to the Nightlords and word bearers

[Forté]

Loved the Night Lords since the Index Astartes article in White Dwarf many moons ago when it was all about attacking under the cover of darkness and disrupting & demoralizing the enemy before attacking targets which would be decimated and displayed to further demoralize enemy forces.

Murderers, sadistic killers and career criminals.

 

Thing is that its really hard to portray that on the tabletop. So enter the Raptors. GWs rubbish answer for what Night Lords are.

 

Hats of to ADB for doing a great job of showing how different each NL is to another. Some being drawn to Chaos (Night Lords were Khorne followers in the original 'Slaves to Darkness' book) and others basically being Renegades using the Legions terror tactics to survive.

 

Personally there are only two 'evil' Legions/ Chapters. The Emperor's Children and Night Lords.

[Spaz431]

I am enjoying this thread. Everyone's views are so similar whilst still remaining separate. Which is the real point of this, here have been no flame wars, just a honest discussion about a diminishing legion that we all enjoy. We all agree there are different ways to see them fluff wise. Now putting into practice on a table in this edition is the part of the discussion we are looking past. Yea, raptors have been named the base idea of night lords along with the warp talons in the codex. So how does one go about fielding a army of night lords on a table and show them the respect they deserve whilst retaining a level of fluff? Does it still come down to writing your own slight divergent fluff. Because personally, I do not want to put the chocolate on the table, black legion with a different paint scheme.