Legion player

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Basically my chaos has always been Thousand sons, Thousand sons HQ, troops, tanks ect, though I have used a hazok squad in alpha legion colours before, whilst also converting thousand son bikers.

When can you call yourself a "legion xxx" player, or when do you lose that status? Is it if you include one or two units from other legions? Or is it when you have a HQ and a couple of units from another legion?

Just wondering what people's thoughts on this are.

[Brother Nathan]

i dont hink so. to me if your main heart of your force is legion then thats what it iswar bands use what ever other forces they can get to help them achieve their objetives, maby not quite in the same way as the black legion do but not so disimilar either. however if your main legion is outnumbered by another then in the same way as in the fluff id expect a power struggle and fight over it (if your original force of marines becomes outnumbered by like 5 2 1 by cultistsor deamons, or another legion then whom is leading whom? depends on whats more important in the internal power struggle, numbers, power equipment etc... you are what you want to be at the end of the day...

[Iron Sage]

If one would like to be fluff correct, 95% of Legions should be outnumbered by 100:1 (number taken from the air) by cultists and human soldiers.

 

1 Thousand Sons sorcerer and his rubricae, would still be a Thousand Sons army if the rest of the army only consisted of cultists.

Obviously, the cultists are not in charge :P

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Of course not :P Unless the Sorcerer is really, really desperate for resorces ;) I'm thinking of including a unit of Noise marines and possibly a squad of sons of horus/luna wolves (ie members of the now black legion who opposed Abbadon's rejection of Horus and fled.) or possessed (captives from other legions/chapter/warbands the sorcerers have captured and forced daemons into.) in bigger games. The core of my force and all my HQ's would still be Thousand sons (including my terminators) but I am curious as to where people think the line/boundry is unless your black legion (In which case as long as they some part painted black and bearing the eye, each squad/model could be different.)

[Dammeron]

I think that ultimately is up to you. The Thousand Sons are very forgiving in this regard, background wise, in that I personally regard them as utilising (RE: "manipulating") any resources they can in order to fulfil their agendas, or those of their God. Since Tzeentch's schemes are often seemingly contradictory or against what might seem to be his interests, it is entirely within the realms of possibility for a Tzeentchian force to contain any number of servants of the other powers, or of no power at all, not to mention any number of allies they've managed to inveigle into their service.

 

Also, if you're feeling particularly pressed by this point, simply substitute with good old "count as:" model the units you want to use as Tzeentchian or Thousand Sons units. Noise Marines, for example, could be modelled as minor sorcerers who have learned how to fling salvos of magic bolts, whereas Obliterators could be particular cults of Tzeentchian wizards who drag along small libraries of scrolls and books behind them (with the help of familiars) in order to fling bolts of destructive magics across the battlefield. So long as you inform your opponent beforehand, I don't see a single problem.

[the jeske]

everyone plays BL , it is impossible to play any other legion army and have a good one . the stuff about "mercs" "simiular goal" etc is bad writing , no one tells a BA player that to have a viable BA army he has to take 3-4 units from the SW codex.

[Sception]

I don't particularly care what other players call their armies, but I personally wouldn't play an army of one of the cult legions without at least the obligatory unit slots taken from the associated cult units. The majority of units would need to bare the associated mark, though I wouldn't feel bad fielding some unaligned units, and maybe maybe a small group of a different mark themed as an allied or mercenary contingent from another legion in the secondary detachment of larger games, just to break up the painting monotony. Certainly nothing from the opposed mark.

 

Even Unaligned Legions, while they may not have as clear examples of something that 'doesn't fit' or 'should be there' do have fluff that can inform the choices of players looking to represent them on the table, though there may be a bit of fudging involved (particularly Alpha Legion, who should strongly consider running a 'counts as' Huron).

 

 

Teal Deer example:

 

For my own army, I play Black Legion, and Black Legion are technically the 'anything goes' faction. The force organization and tactical disposition of a particular Black Legion warband depends on the whims of its individual commander, and any army of black armored chaos marines is perfectly justified in calling itself Black Legion.

 

However, there are some options & tactics that appear more frequently among the Black Legion, as they reflect Abaddon's own preferences, and I try to keep them in mind when constructing an army list.

 

Abaddon (duh)

Chosen (Abby attracts the best of the best)

Lords (the BL respects physical prowess in their leaders)

Terminators (deep striking termies is a common BL tactic)

Sorcerers (BL sorcerers manage their possessed)

Possessed (possession is commonly practiced in the BL)

Warpsmiths (BL warpsmiths created the Defiler)

Defilers (invented for the BL at Abaddon's command)

Vets upgrade (Hatred is the BL's unifying creed)

Cultists (slave levies used as fodder)

Allied Daemons (also employed as shock troops & fodder)

 

1) The Black Legion typically employs a variety of marked & cult troops serving as specialists, while the core remains undivided.

 

2) The Black Legion frequently uses expendable cultists and daemons as fodder to choke enemy positions before assault.

 

3) The Black Legion prefers to advance in stages, making sudden assaults under cover of heavy arms fire, then consolidating their position while the heavy stuff moves up before striking out again.

 

4) The Black Legion prefers to target enemy leadership with crushing 'spear tip' assaults that leave the rest of the enemy force disoriented & demoralized.

 

 

When constructing an army, I like to start with the troops. Keeping 1) in mind, I'll first pick up a couple unaligned CSM squads. To be fluffy I'll give them the vets of the long war. Fitting with 3), I'll give them extra close combat weapons, or a mix of bolters & close combat weapons if I need to shave points, so that they can assault enemy positions than bunker down in them and provide supporting fire. Maybe dirgecasting rhinoes if I have points for it. Fitting with 2), I'll flesh out my troops with one or more units of cultists, probably pistol armed to keep them cheap & expendable, maybe a couple flamers in there.

 

Next up the HQ, and a Terminator Lord with Termie retinue feels very 'Black Legionesque' to me. Plus, they can deep strike in to target the enemy HQ, fitting well with 4). I might give the lord a Murder Sword, just to better hate on the enemy's biggest HQ unit, or the Burning Brand to make their sudden arrival that much more disorienting. If I have points left over, I might mark them.

 

After that, I might add a Defiler (a fire base that can support the advance, and one of the preferred options), Maybe a marked raptor, bike, or havoc specialist support unit (but try to keep a balance of different marks). Black Legion like possessed, but I don't like the unit, so I might instead have them show their respect for possessed by using the models as champions with gift of mutation - it's fudging slightly, but possessed marines in positions of leadership fits pretty well to me. Maybe add a Tzeentch sorcerer hoping for boon of mutation to show that 'sorcerers managing the possessed' angle. Depending on marks or lack there of on the HQs, I might even squeeze in a couple cult units to help flesh out the troops.

 

/ Teal Deer

 

 

The point is, while Black Legion are allowed and even encouraged to take anything the player wants, their fluff still provides guidance for those who want to field an iconically 'Black Legion' army that plays out in a distinctly 'Black Legion' manner on the tabletop.

 

And I guess that's my position on Legion armies. You can play any army you want, and fill it with whatever units you want, and for the most part I won't complain (a "Thousand Sons" army with nothing having the MoT, featuring Typhus, Zombies, & Plague Marines might get some grumbles out of me), but I'll be a lot more excited to play against you if the fluff & disposition of your chosen faction actually informed your unit selection & strategy.

[Kol Saresk]

Basically my chaos has always been Thousand sons, Thousand sons HQ, troops, tanks ect, though I have used a hazok squad in alpha legion colours before, whilst also converting thousand son bikers.

When can you call yourself a "legion xxx" player, or when do you lose that status? Is it if you include one or two units from other legions? Or is it when you have a HQ and a couple of units from another legion?

Just wondering what people's thoughts on this are.

Fluffwise, it stops when you want it to stop. When you feel like you have left your Legion basically. Tabletop wise, in my opinion is just like fluffwise. According to others, as since a KSon army, as soon as you start using a Troops unit other than Rubrics and Cultists, you're automatically not KSons anymore, you're Black Legion. Which is complete and total BS in my opinion since the tabletop army is supposed to match the fluff behind it. The fluff is the whole driving force behind this thing. Without it, we're playing a very convoluted chess game which is fun, but does absolutely nothing to grab your attention and does nothing to give you "your own army." You can write up a million reasons why there is a Raptor Cult wearing Iron Warrior colors hanging around, or a Vindicator from the Night Lords. Maybe even a Forgefiend from the Alpha Legion and some Cultists on loan from the Word Bearers. It's all up to you. Stop at the point when you feel like you are no longer building a KSons army and you will have your answer.

[Smurfalypse]

I am as purist a Word Bearer player as their is, I have NEVER in my 15+ years of gaming played a WB list and used a mark of any of the gods other than Undivided.

 

That said, my purist ways are about to come to an end I think. I keep looking at the codex and this is the second one in a row that I am going to have a less efficient unit or model by NOT taking a mark. It is designed with the idea that whoever you are playing as, you are to take marks liberally. I do not know how long it will take me to get passed this, but I think it will come to an end little by little. It may start off by me taking a Mark of Nurgle on my Obliterators, or a Tzeentch dedicated Prince or maybe Mark of Slaanesh on Bikers with an Icon of Excess.

 

Point is, I cannot last another five years with the mentality of "I do not use Marks" when the codex is basically telling me to "be less viable" if I DO NOT use them. I keep trying to write up a list with a Daemon Prince (I desperately want to use one) and after a little bit I end up tossing the list because he is dedicated to one of the Gods of Chaos.

Am I still a Word Bearer player if I take Marks of some (and not all) of the Gods in my army? I do not think so deep down. I may SAY I am a WB player, but the truth is that my list will have dedicated more of itself to one God than another.

 

Little by little they are removing the ability to play an truly undivided list, if you play a pure cult list you are also handicapping yourself. Two codexes in a row, 10+ years of this type of mindset. It is coming to an end. As Jeske pointed out and I agree with him 100%, "everyone is playing Black Legion". Because fluff wise that is EXACTLY what it is.

 

I am sad.

 

 

**EDIT** Wanted to point out that while I am sad about this particular issue, I do enjoy the Codex. I am not complaining about it.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Well the main idea was that the sorcerer has through his travels picked up "friends/allies" of his who have fallen on hard times since the great crusade, an example being the Noise marines, who would be the squad Antonius Vespianon, who my sorcerer knew in the great crusade, and now excepts the services of him and his noise marines in return for their continued survival/passage aboard his ship.

I would never take nurgle or Khorne units for the fluff, hence why I figured a squad of noise marines and/or chosen support squad would still be fluffly.

The way I construct my lists is:

First take the sorcerer and two units of ruberics.

Then add support units that would still be available to the Thousand sons, ie predators, vindicator, dreadnoughts, terminators ect, cultists if I had any models.

Then if pts allowing, take another sorcerer and another ruberic squad, add rhinos.

And then at bigger games I would include the non Thousand son units.

[Forté]

Apart from Black Legion, Iron Warriors, Word Bearers and World Eaters. I can't see how you can really do any of the other Legions properly anyway.

[Excessus]

I play my Alpha Legion, sometimes i take marks, sometimes I take Daemon Princes, Obliterators, daemons...and other stuff...

 

Is it fluffy? YES! The universe is a big place, the warp is corrypting...the codex is there to be used! Just as it is fluffy to have a BA list with just tactical marines and a captain, it is fluffy to have an Alpha Legion list with possessed and cult troops...

[Sception]

**EDIT** Wanted to point out that while I am sad about this particular issue, I do enjoy the Codex. I am not complaining about it.

 

The book even includes a note about word bearers 'each being dedicated to one of the gods', trying to expunge the whole chaos undivided / pantheon worship entirely.

 

Well, I think you're still fine with unaligned troops. The marks aren't bad on CSMs, but I don't think they're necessary either, and cultists are better off without. Perhaps an army with an undivided core, supported by a few specialist "cults" dedicated to particular gods, maybe one of each in larger games, might satisfy you? Maybe one each of Tzeentch termies, nurgle bikes or havocs, slaaneshi raptors, and, I don't know, a unit of berzerkers? I don't know, just a thought. And maybe they'll revoke the obligatory mark on princes in errata. After all, it's not like undivided princes don't exist - they can pop up in the middle of the game, and there are several other options supposedly being revised (terminator gear, noise marine champion equipment, plague zombie unit size, etc).

[Kol Saresk]

Well the main idea was that the sorcerer has through his travels picked up "friends/allies" of his who have fallen on hard times since the great crusade, an example being the Noise marines, who would be the squad Antonius Vespianon, who my sorcerer knew in the great crusade, and now excepts the services of him and his noise marines in return for their continued survival/passage aboard his ship.

I would never take nurgle or Khorne units for the fluff, hence why I figured a squad of noise marines and/or chosen support squad would still be fluffly.

The way I construct my lists is:

First take the sorcerer and two units of ruberics.

Then add support units that would still be available to the Thousand sons, ie predators, vindicator, dreadnoughts, terminators ect, cultists if I had any models.

Then if pts allowing, take another sorcerer and another ruberic squad, add rhinos.

And then at bigger games I would include the non Thousand son units.

Sounds good enough to me, but then I think I am part of the more "radical" crowd. But hey, it sounds good and sounds like you have a plan on knowing exactly when and where you will use your allies and it's where most people use allies anyway. You're just using them as an actual part of your army rather than an add-on.

[the jeske]

The fluff is the whole driving force behind this thing. Without it, we're playing a very convoluted chess game which is fun, but does absolutely nothing to grab your attention and does nothing to give you "your own army." You can write up a million reasons why there is a Raptor Cult wearing Iron Warrior colors hanging around, or a Vindicator from the Night Lords. Maybe even a Forgefiend from the Alpha Legion and some Cultists on loan from the Word Bearers. It's all up to you. Stop at the point when you feel like you are no longer building a KSons army and you will have your answer.

but there are no non rubric 1ksons . the moment you put stuff which is not ahriman ,1kson and maybe a DP it is automaticly a BL army. saying that it is not BL , but just two other legions in the same warband is childish . how is squad of raptors suppose to get on 1ksons ship or travel the warp like they offten do . who is fueling and rearming the IW tanks ? because there is no way a single IW tank[or even 3] somehow went rogue with along with a fual dump , ammo dump , workshop , spare parts warehouse. And even if something like that happened and the IW wouldnt automaticly go after the rogue dudes that run off with so much stuff , how would an AL or NL force transport those tank and all their stuff from the planet surface ? a big legion force which could have access to orbital landers would just kill the IW and take the stuff , a smaller one would be unable to transports the tanks/fuel/ammo/parts/repair facilities. And even if they somehow did[would take a lot of time something raid forces normaly dont have] they would go out of ammo spare parts ultra fast , because producing ammo/fuel cells/parts for anything else then a rhino is ultra hard without a forge world . And trying to look around for one which may want to trade stuff for said parts would cost more of the ships fuel/navigator sanity , which are both worth more then 3 IW tanks that may go rogue at any moment[they just went rogue from their battle brothers , they will do the same to strangers more sooner then later].

[Killax]

Well, from the bottom of my heart, I want to be a World Eater player. Having said that, playing an army full of Bezerkers is the most foolish thing one can do.

I personally go Khorne/Nurgle and Undivided/Undicided, this is where I limit myself to. I am also willing to break this habit if I feel it's needed, like on Tournaments.

 

The mayor problem with Chaos Space Marine Legions in general is that their fluff is lacking or portrays us as the Legion of the Damned, the Slaves of Darkness, the "Fools".

A great example of this is the Thousand Sons, turned to dust etc. The biggest general problem we have is that nowhere is mentioned that new Chaos Space Marines are produced (like in the Loyalist Chapters), which would mean the only reinforcements we get are Loyalist Chapters turned Renegade. I think this is what bothers me the most.

 

A couple of things that could have been included, but is lacking for quite some time now is the production of new Chaos Space Marines, what actually could be done with Cultists? And another thing is the total lack of transport options within our Codex. I am still unsure why they didn't add a Drop Pod or Dreadclaw but the use of this is mentioned in some fluff (even after the heresy).

 

In total, I like the new codex for our infantry. What I don't understand is that we've gotten some nice Daemonic Vechicles but the thing I was waiting for was more transport options. If there are Loyalist Chapters turned renegade wouldn't this also add some form of armoury to our options? I would have loved to see a Chaotic Land Raider and a re-done Dreadclaw... God how I would have loved that.

[Excessus]

Seriously jeske, that's way to narrow-minded...

 

If we continue the 1k sons example, they are not as numerous as others, and are often spread out in their search for knowledge/artifacts. An Alpha Legion army collaborating with a 1k sons sorcerer and his rubric squad for a vital mission where there happens to be an artifact or tome of some sort at the same location(well, Alpha Legion operatives have most likely made sure beforehand that the artifact is being kept in the "safe area" where the AL mission is to be executed). It doesn't stop being an Alpha Legion warband just because they recruit some temporary help from outside, and who knows, the sorcerer might even be left in charge(or so he thinks)...

 

 

There are TONS of ways a unit from one legion could work in another legion warband, just because you can't see them doesn't mean those situations don't exsist...

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

The fluff is the whole driving force behind this thing. Without it, we're playing a very convoluted chess game which is fun, but does absolutely nothing to grab your attention and does nothing to give you "your own army." You can write up a million reasons why there is a Raptor Cult wearing Iron Warrior colors hanging around, or a Vindicator from the Night Lords. Maybe even a Forgefiend from the Alpha Legion and some Cultists on loan from the Word Bearers. It's all up to you. Stop at the point when you feel like you are no longer building a KSons army and you will have your answer.

but there are no non rubric 1ksons . the moment you put stuff which is not ahriman ,1kson and maybe a DP it is automaticly a BL army. saying that it is not BL , but just two other legions in the same warband is childish . how is squad of raptors suppose to get on 1ksons ship or travel the warp like they offten do . who is fueling and rearming the IW tanks ? because there is no way a single IW tank[or even 3] somehow went rogue with along with a fual dump , ammo dump , workshop , spare parts warehouse. And even if something like that happened and the IW wouldnt automaticly go after the rogue dudes that run off with so much stuff , how would an AL or NL force transport those tank and all their stuff from the planet surface ? a big legion force which could have access to orbital landers would just kill the IW and take the stuff , a smaller one would be unable to transports the tanks/fuel/ammo/parts/repair facilities. And even if they somehow did[would take a lot of time something raid forces normaly dont have] they would go out of ammo spare parts ultra fast , because producing ammo/fuel cells/parts for anything else then a rhino is ultra hard without a forge world . And trying to look around for one which may want to trade stuff for said parts would cost more of the ships fuel/navigator sanity , which are both worth more then 3 IW tanks that may go rogue at any moment[they just went rogue from their battle brothers , they will do the same to strangers more sooner then later].

Yet we have instances such as battle of the fang where we have rubric terminators, and they used/were able to use tanks and such before the heresy, so why would they not now? They would still have the equipment and workshops on their own ships, plus contacts with the dark Mechanicus.

Please explain how units such as Predators, vindicators, rhino's ect are not "Thousand son" they are in my legion colours, so why arn't they? It's not like you can go to an ultramarine player and say "your predators may be painted ultramarine, but they are really raven guard."

Yes cult terminators would have been nice, we used to have them, but we can't and so if we paint them the right colours/use the right upgrade kit (in the case of DG and WE players) then the terminators are Thousand sons.

And just because they are Chaos marines, does not mean they are all "Mwa haha ha, I shall stab EVERYONE in the back ALL the time, I have no friends and whenever I see Bob who I was best mates with in the crusade, I try to kill him as nothing says pointlessly evil for the sake of evil and car carrying villain of the year like having no friends and working together is something only designated heroes/good guys can do." Is it really that hard to believe that two warlords/sorcerers who were friends during the heresy, upon meeting each other decide not to work together, or say Warlord XX meets Warlord B, who was like a brother to him during the heresy and both saved each others lives on several occasions, whose ship is crippled and in a really bad position, is just going to let him die/finish him off "For Der GODZ/LOLZ".

Really, are you saying that Chaos marines are that one dimensional/mustache twirling villains (not that there is anything wrong with a good mustache)? Or that we need special rules for every little detail? Or that we should just paint everything black but cult units as we don't get the special "Daddies little girl" treatment the loyalists get?

On Rhino's and other tanks, walkers ect: Do you see any main difference in rule for them between the loyalist codecii with the exception of the blood angels speedy gonzalis engines and the pts cost on an upgrade? Yes some have unique variants, but the one they share are pretty much the same except for the paint scheme.

[Kol Saresk]

As all of the great prophets before me, I shall bring the answers to your questions by using the very Bible to which you hold so dear, the Index Astartes!*Cue end of theatrical BS

 

i present to you, the article of the Thousand Sons' Gene-seed!

 

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc69/bleachit54/IMG_4217.png

 

Notice how it says that only the non-psychic Marines were turned into Rubrics, while the Sorcerers remained flesh and blood! And they even retained their gene-seed! Therefore, the answer to your question is yes, there are non-Rubric KSons who can, and most likely were, made using the gene-seed of the Sorcerers!

 

For the Raptors!

Actually where in the article does it say that Raptors can't be in a KSon army? They travel in Cults. Their loyalty no longer belongs to their home legion unless they are traveling with a warband of that Legion. So the answer to your question is that they climb aboard the KSon ship and so what everyone else does, catch a ride.

 

The tanks, I was unaware that only Iron Warriors had tanks. Really, I was. Maybe I misread when I saw that the Black Legion, Night Lords and Word Bearers had tanks. Shame on you BL for confounding me![/sarcasm] So, yes the KSons can have tanks. Do they not have slaves? Or are slaves only Word Bearers and Alpha Legion? They are? Darn. Oh well. Fluff rewrite in progress. Guess what? Since there are the Legions of the Damned which are made up of traitors, slaves, runaway guardsmen, mutants and just about anything else you can dream of, there are the crews to pilot the tanks. And the Dark Mechanicus can bartered with to provide ammo and fuel! And you know what the best part is? Since the KSons are so good playing with daemons, they can - Oh you guessed it! - possess the tank with the spirit of a daemon! That way, they don't even have to worry about ammo and fuel! When you use your imagination to shape the very power of the warp the way the KSons do, anything is possible!

 

And let's not forget all of the flyers that the Legions had at their disposal! There was only the Stormbird, the Thunderhawk, the Harbinger dropship, the Stormhawk, the Castellan Bomber and many more! And somehow even if a Thunderhawk was incapable of carrying a tank(but we see so many of them carrying Rhinos, Whirlwinds, Razorbacks and Land Raiders!), surely a Stormbird with a carrying capacity of 1,000 Marines is able to carry one tank.

 

Besides, the Night Lords are raiders according to most people now aren't they? I'm sure they can get their hands on the needed supplies. And if they can do it, so can the KSons!

 

Any Legion at the point in time had access to these dropships. There is nothing, nothing in any fluff anywhere that says otherwise. Only how people interpreted the Legion lists. And people wonder why I say that the 3.5 Legion lists are restrictive. I don't maybe it's the Night Lord in me that doesn't like to be structured by those in charge. Or maybe it's the hot-headed newblood that seeks to forge my own path instead of going "Raptor Legion" when I can have the guns of a Forgefiend backing me up and blazing away at the enemy. It might be because a mobile firebase like the Harbinger Dropship could provide a very big "shock and awe" factor that is so much the point of terror tactics. Maybe, just maybe.

 

EDIT: Hey Killax, check out The Masters, Bidding in "Treacheries of the Space Marines". You'll find a pleasant surprise there about recruiting in the KSons.

[Minsc]

At the bottom of my Heart I'm a Thousand Son's player (started in 3.5)

Since the 4th Ed. codex however, I've more or less been a BL-player with the odd Worldeater or Deathguard-list, and the new 6th Ed. codex has moved me even further away from Thousand Sons, because a pure TS-army is more or less unplayable if you want to have a even concievable chance of winning.

 

Tzeentch is still my prefered god, but I wouldn't classify me as a Legion-player anymore.

[Killax]

EDIT: Hey Killax[/i], check out The Masters, Bidding in "Treacheries of the Space Marines". You'll find a pleasant surprise there about recruiting in the KSons.

 

Thanks! Will do that! I also plan to include Fabrikus in my World Eater Legion/Warband/Mutley crew/Circus/Parade/Soccer team.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

I have been thinking of picking that up, is it any good?

[Kol Saresk]

Treacheries? It's give and take. Some of it's good, none of it's bad. The Iron Warriors get a ton of showtime though. The only thing I was disappointe in was the winner of the submission contest simply because it ignored all of the rules.

[MaliGn]

I think you never stop being a legion player, unless you sell up and get rid of the army, for example I am currently building a word bearers army, however in the past I have alpha legion and emperor's children. While I don't currently either play or expand either of these armies and would consider myself to currently be a word bearer it doesn't mean I won't go back to the others at some point. Especially if I can build sonic bikes again some day.

 

As a note on adding non 3.5 fluffy units to forces an example pertinent to me is the word bearers whose description was that their tactics were dictated by the warped visions of their dark apostles I.e. eschewing armour completely. Back then this was represented by being able to trade hs or FA slots for extra troops to allow for extra daemons. But that is only one example. Surely there is the scope for all manner of different forces, which is what adb and the last two codexes have been trying to tell us. Since only troops became scoring we've been loathe to admit that we can pretty much still build the 3.5 armies, cult bike/termies excepted. Realistically how many night lords players really maxed their fast attack? There's just not enough points in 1500/1850 games, not really it's just that with loyalist abilities to make bikes scoring, or blood angel making assault marines scoring depending on choices made etc, that non god legions don't really have this shenanigan. If the codex had included a talon master that made warp talons scoring, and if warpmasters made daemon engines score, dark apostles possessed, etc etc then we might feel parity. As it is there are too many people hung up on the one page summary tweaks you could use to represent a legion from 3.5, did everyone forget that you could choose to build your legion force using the generic list back then too? Same as in the previous two books, which would have lifted all the restrictions but given none of the "benefits" I.e. You could still have bought infiltrate for your alpha legion, you'd just have had to pay full price like everyone else, but you couple now add in some allied thousand sons or whatever. We can still enforce whatever restrictions we want on our lists depending on the force we want to play, gw have given us the tools to build pretty much whatever we want and then expected us to have the maturity to handle these tools, it's up to us at that point. This doesn't mean that my word bearers assault squad of raptors with the mark of khorne make my army black legion they are simply just what they say they are a former assault squad, favoured by khorne because they revel in the up close and personal shedding of blood. As mentioned earlier the whims of a dark apostle are as unique as the apostles themselves.

[Trevak Dal]

I think the best thing to do if you want a legion army, is to wait for forgeworld to release a book featuring your legion. That's what I'm going to do with the Alpha Legion (if they're rules don't suck).

 

edit: That is, if you want to have rules to specifically represent the various legions.