Legion player

[Kol Saresk]

Where is the preponderance of Raptors in the Night Lords stated? Where is the preponderance of Obliterators in the Iron Warriors? Iron Warriors are known for the daemon engines they use for siege tactics. Night Lords are know for seizing the tactical initiative on the battlefield ad isolating and destroying primary targets before the enemy can react before having their way with the leftovers. Neither Legion has a recorded preponderance of a specific unit. And both units in question are recorded as belonging to individual cults who sell their services to any warband that can meet their price.

 

The only preponderance of these units that I have seen is amongst the 3.5 players who made extreme use of these units in those specific lists simply because they could. Some wanted Raptor armies, Night Lords gave extra FA slots, so Night Lords became Raptor Legion. Similar instance with the IW and Oblits.

 

Yes, the Alpha Legion has a habit of using mortals to set up intelligence networks and terrorist cells, both in and out of Cults. But they do have Space Marines as well. An indefinite(unrecorded) amount in fact.

 

The point is, simply saying:

"Alpha Legion: Cultists, Chosen"

 

Followed by the statement:

"Any of those would be fluffy armies and you could call it a Legion."

 

Gives the impression that you are saying "These units are fluffy with these Legion." I'm sorry if I misunderstood but that was the impression I got and it's not an impression I agree with.

[Smurfalypse]

The best way I and my group look at it is "All World Eaters are Bezerkers, not all berzerkers are world eaters", replacing World eaters/berzerkers with Death Guard and Plague Marines or Emperors Children and Noise marines.

I play IW, and include berzerkers in my force, as well as plague marines...this does not make my army any less fluffy than any others that do not include them.

Storm of Iron includes Kroegers portion of the army having berzerkers, and it makes sense that any legion that has assault troops, after a long time on the warp they might begin worshipping khorne.

Aside from the cult troops, which are easily explained as to why they might be found in other legions, what makes a legion is its history, culture and mindset, not so much as its actual makeup.

The rules make it a bit tougher, but not impossible.

BL: play anything almost, they are the masters of bringing together what they need from other factions/warbands.

IW: Take warpsmiths and anything armored, demon engines, tanks.

NL: Raptors/bikes, chosen, anything that can have Vets of the Long War.

AL: Cultists, chosen

WB: Marines, allied demons, or even play demons, allied CSM (HQ of dark apostle, two troops of chaos marines)

WE, DG, EC, Ksons: HQ with mark and troops choices of cults.

Any of those would be fluffy armies and you could call it a Legion.

I think its actually harder to break what is or is not a Legion than adhering to it.

 

This is the type of crap codex 3.5 threw out, if you were one of the Legions you couldnt do x, y and z. To heck with that.

I will play what I want to play and if that is a WB army with Zerkers as troops, then that's what it is.

If my Apostle is a psyker, then I have a Sorcerer.

If my Commander is a Prince that was deemed worthy by Nurgle, then so be it.

 

This locking stuff down is like looking at the night sky through a cardboard toilet tube roll. You only see a small fraction of every star, there are literally infinite possibilities and to regulate one particular way as being the "only" way is just not correct.

 

Personally, my WBs (since the start of second edition, more than 15 years ago) are always unmarked (or mark of undivided when that was around). That is my thing and how I enjoy to play my dudes. That does not mean it is right or wrong, it is simply the way I prefer.

I think I am the ONLY Chaos player this side of the Mississippi who in a large way disliked the 3.5 codex. It was fun with the infinite options, but the pigeon hole thing with the Legions was just bad. Just as bad as anything in the 4th ed codex, just a terrible way to represent all the Legions.

[Kol Saresk]

No, I'm on this side of the Mississippi too.

[Payce]

Where is the preponderance of Raptors in the Night Lords stated? Where is the preponderance of Obliterators in the Iron Warriors? [...] The only preponderance of these units that I have seen is amongst the 3.5 players who made extreme use of these units in those specific lists simply because they could. Some wanted Raptor armies, Night Lords gave extra FA slots, so Night Lords became Raptor Legion. Similar instance with the IW and Oblits.

 

The 3.5 codex stated in the fluff to "justify" removing the 0-1 caps on Oblits and Raptors that both legions "had close ties to" and "makes extensive use of" the respective cults. The cheesy spam-lists were allowed by the codex, but the same codex stated fluffwise that these unites were more common in said legion. I'd get the page numbers and quotes, but my 3.5 codex is in the game club library, so I won't have access to it until later today.

 

Personally, I never agreed to the spamming - I used the 0-1 removal to run 2x2 Oblits personally. Only 1 more than the allowed 1x3, and expensive enough that I limited myself to only 3 Heavy Support most of the time.

 

What amazes me the most about this thread is the notion that there is a "right" and "wrong" way to play your Legion. I mean, let's be honest - the fluff sources are endless. I play my Iron Warriors mainly adhering the the old Index Astartes article, but with enough "personal touches" to make it my own. Some people have read Storm of Iron and think that mounting everything in tanks and taking a ton of ordnance is "THE ONLY WAY®" while others reading the same book remembers Forrix so fondly that it's Terminators and Chosen all the way, baby. Some people enjoy the fact that we were actually Slaanesh-aligned back in late 2nd/early 3rd edition. Some people have read that horrible Ultramarines-book where Ventris travels to Medrengard and beats up 4 Grand Companies - these people tend to think that max number of Dreadnoughts are the shiz. There's no "one way" to play the Iron Warriors. There's no "right and wrong" units - hell, even Possessed can be justified, just make sure to convert them so everything mutated are bionic. The forthcoming Iron Warriors vs. Orks book from Black Library has a (rather badass, if I might add) Raptor wearing Legion colours on the cover. Tell me that's "wrong".

 

TL;DR - the "Legion" is in the details. Make your army look like they're supposed to, adhere roughly to the core of the established fluff (for the sake of argument; in Iron Warriors, various machines, guns, and the occasional savagery) and pick the units you like. No one has the right to tell anyone that any army is "wrong".

 

Except Slaanesh Juggernauts. That's just flat out crazy.

[Trevak Dal]

They're practically different games. A Heresy-era Legion list doesn't reflect the 40K Legions very well at all, and even if it did, it does so with an unrelated ruleset in mind. A 40K Chaos army is balanced against, say, orks - but an HH Legion list isn't. It would annihilate them, because it's a different ruleset on a different scale.

 

Bringing a 30K Legion army to a 40K game seems a little closer to bringing your High Elves or Beastmen to it, rather than just "Hey, Forge World are doing rules for the Chaos Legions." High Elves have similar rules and Weapon Skill and Wounds, etc. too. And Necromunda gangs. Different games, though.

 

 

Outstanding. That's exactly what I'm looking for in a Legion list. ATSKNF? They don't have to know fear so long as they die nameless and rot.

[MaliGn]

It's thread like this that make me wish I still had my second ed codex, when iron warriors, night lords, alpha legion and word bearers really began to exist in more than name alone. Back then there was none of this alpha legion turned to chaos for the good of the imperium Or night lords don't worship the gods stuff. (note these are examples only) we were all chaos legions. Yes the iron warriors were offended by fleshy bits and replaced them with bionics to a point where they might almost appear to be mutating into more machine than man, yes the alpha legion were fuelled by martial pride and arrogance, often playing a long game just to make the odds harder to overcome, but ensuring that victory was inevitable through the setting up of cults and the likes. Yes word bearers are frothing religious zealots but, brimming with the hubris of an astartes they see themselves as superior to humans and daemons alike, merely utilising them as sacrificial pawns un their crusade of religious conversion. Admittedly that codex didn't feature raptors or daemon engines or daemon princes or possessed but neither did it suggest that any one of the legions wouldn't use such options should they exist. So I'm all for iron warriors possessed with bionic mutations, night lords obliterators, alpha legion bezerkers and word bearer noise marines, since all of these would make sense in particular contexts and more importantly all of them should give rise go some awesome looking models when done right.

[Muskie]

I think if you're not painting your models in the official color scheme, slight variations of blue/red are acceptable or you're not using the Chaos Codex but instead are using whatever codex is most beneficial at the moment you're not a Legion player.

 

I think Forgeworld stuff is A-OK and for pre-heresy or Heresy era Legion armies using a Codex other than Chaos may be acceptable but of course your living in the past of a fictitious future. But to play 6th Edition 40K and call yourself a Chaos Legion player you bloody well better be using the new book. You can voluntarily not take stuff, just like newly fallen Renegade players can voluntarily not take Veterans of the Long War.

 

10,000 years of service to the Dark Gods isn't a requirement to be a Night Lord or an Alpha Legionnaire, they've recruited or otherwise acquired additional troops since the death of the Warmaster. Ditto for Loyalists who revolted say 9000 years ago, surely they are veterans of the long war? As long as you're painting your models and using the Chaos Codex, you're doing your interpretation of the Legion under the current rules. If you're using any other "marine" codex then I'm afraid true Chaos Legion players hate you. It is right in the rules, Hatred for all other Space Marines not chosen from the Chaos Space Marine Codex.

 

Cheers,