More reasons to ally Space Wolves

[CitadelArmyGuy]

As if anyone needed more justification, am I right? lol

 

Just in case anyone missed it, allying Space Wolves can be very.... interesting. For example, did you know that Counter-Attack spreads to the whole Unit now, if just one model has it? Attach a 125pt Runepriest with JP to a Jump Assault Squad (or even Death Company if you like) and you now have Counter-Attack on everyone (Ld 10 too). Ditto for a 120pt Terminator Runepriest attached into BA Terminators-- Quite the useful trick for mid-field Terminators (Counter-Attack + Prescience, because the Runepriests access Divination of course... good lord). (EDIT: Incorrect, if at least one model in the unit has CA then you roll Ld, but then by-model you gain +1A. Thanks k&f)

 

If you run Mephiston, then of course Thunderwolf Cavalry attracts the same weapon profiles for target saturation. Cheap and cheerful (relatively) is best way to run them though, and since they are also Fleet and Cavalry they can run side along Mephiston and simply own house. Wolves can also provide cover for Mephiston, or Attack Bikes cover them both on their way in.

 

If you are thinking about running Tactical Terminators, then perhaps a Unit of Wolf Guard Terminators with Stormbolters and PowerAxes might actually provide a cheaper option (5 TDA for 165pts... mmm). Of course you can give them ALL combi-plasmagun (if footslog) or combi-meltas (if drop-podding) for 5pts each. If you like suicide-melta, these guys provide and may also be "less than suicidal" -- hitting a flank means they may even survive and provide good diversion effects too. Innate Counter-attack is nice. Also, one can be upgraded to Arjac who is simply a challenge master. I prefer cheaper though, 33pt Terminators is what is alluring here (38pt with combis). If you go for more upgrades, then usually BA Terminators will become more efficient. Final thought, if you take 5 and drop pod, you can give one a Cyclone Missile Launcher and attach him to the Grey Hunters you had to take-- adding to their firepower, while the 4 combi-meltas can drop in an ace a tank.

 

Need something cheaper? Having trouble setting screens for your Jump Marines since nothing cheap can keep pace? Cheapo Thunderwolves at 8 pts each are Beasts and can screen to deny assaults, provide cover saves to important stuff, hold off deep-strikers, deny objectives, trigger nasty Overwatches which will kill them but then Assault Marines can charge in for free, and hey they can always chew on Light Infantry. As fast Screens, there's nothing better because their bases are physically huge (the bike base) so you get a ton of coverage for only 8pts each. Also, terrain never slows Beasts down, so they'll never get in the way of a Jump Marine advance. Did I mention they can re-roll their Run? :) Max unit size is 15, but take 10 for 80pts (or just 5 for 40pts) seems just fine to me-- even just one left accomplishes most of their jobs.

 

Long Fangs need no introduction, but if you run tight on points you can access the budget AC/HB Pred for 85pts which makes the most of a Prescience buff. Also, if you are running Blood Angel AC/LC Preds, then for Target saturation you can get another SW one for only 120pts- much slower though, but hey 48" range means while the others maneuver, he can sit in cover from vantage.

 

Well, there you have it. I noticed very few Allied Space Wolves lists over in our Army List subforum, and I was wondering where all the love went. :) So I thought I'd provide some food for thought. And I didn't even mention once how Runeweapons still block Psychic tests like the old Psychic Hoods used to :devil: lol

[Brother Noah]

I'm truly loving my space wolf allied detachment. A simple rune priest with jump pack and 10 grey hunters in a rhino. I did not know that counterattack spreads to the whole unit if one model has it....that is awesome. I am definitely going to enjoy that. I mainly love the fire support and plasma that the grey hunters provide and the ability to mess with other people's psychic powers with my rune priest!

[Ushtarador]

I don't have any SW models and I would use something else unless I was to play in a serious tournament, because they are just lame for all the reasons you stated :D (especially the runepriests until they bloody errata that stupid runeweapon).

I think they're by far the best allies for our army, able to fill a lot of gaps.

[Deus de Mortalis]

Could you just have everyone painted up as blood angles and then "counts-as" the units from the SW codex? I mean, they are all space marines, and as long as they have the right wargear, you can paint them up any way you like.

[knife&fork]

For example, did you know that Counter-Attack spreads to the whole Unit now, if just one model has it?

Counter attack is not contagious as it works on models and not units like fearless. A common misconception, though I'm not sure why as the rules are quite clear.

[CitadelArmyGuy]

For example, did you know that Counter-Attack spreads to the whole Unit now, if just one model has it?

Counter attack is not contagious as it works on models and not units like fearless. A common misconception, though I'm not sure why as the rules are quite clear.

Ah well spotted. That second sentence man, it got me. Of course, having my wife and first newborn home from the hospital two days ago has reduced my attention to fine detail.... 3am feedings and whatnot. /endexcuses :D

[Morollan]

There are so many good reasons to ally with Space Wolves but I just can't bring myself to do it. I've had a hatred of SW for so long now that I feel dirty just writing a list with them in.

[SnorriSnorrison]

There are so many good reasons to ally with Space Wolves but I just can't bring myself to do it. I've had a hatred of SW for so long now that I feel dirty just writing a list with them in.

 

Same here. My regular opponent is a SW player, and just the thought of allying with them sends a cold shiver down my spine. I could never write such a list.

 

Sometimes, however, if you're aiming for competitive play, one has to bend over and spread. ;)

 

 

 

Snorri

[Morollan]

There are so many good reasons to ally with Space Wolves but I just can't bring myself to do it. I've had a hatred of SW for so long now that I feel dirty just writing a list with them in.

 

Same here. My regular opponent is a SW player, and just the thought of allying with them sends a cold shiver down my spine. I could never write such a list.

 

Sometimes, however, if you're aiming for competitive play, one has to bend over and spread.

 

If was a regular tournament player then I'd have to think about it but I usually game amongst friends so I think I'm safe! The annoying thing is that the best options for us are also amongst the things I find most cheesy in the SW codex.

[CitadelArmyGuy]

There are so many good reasons to ally with Space Wolves but I just can't bring myself to do it. I've had a hatred of SW for so long now that I feel dirty just writing a list with them in.

Same here. My regular opponent is a SW player, and just the thought of allying with them sends a cold shiver down my spine. I could never write such a list.

Unfortunately I have a hard time being anything other than dispassionate and calculating when it comes to my approach to the game. I don't hate any unit or codex. I have disdain for Grey Knights since the codex thumbs its nose at internal game balance but I wouldn't even say I hate them either. I did sell all my GK two months after the new codex came out though, since winning had no meaning since it was so frackin easy.

 

No I have no hate for SW, especially since I own zero SW models. I do what Deus de Mortalis suggested and counts-as anything I'd want to run. I won't be playing TWC or TW anytime soon, although I might snag my IG warhammer-fantasy "Rough Riders" into duty as Wolves; a cheap fast screen unit is something our Jump Marines definitely need (especially versus Flamers of Tzeentch).

[Jolemai]

Ah well spotted. That second sentence man, it got me. Of course, having my wife and first newborn home from the hospital two days ago has reduced my attention to fine detail.... 3am feedings and whatnot. /endexcuses ;)

 

My first turned seven months last Friday so I know that feeling all too well. Congrats though, you're going to love it :D

[Morticon]

I do what Deus de Mortalis suggested and counts-as anything I'd want to run. I won't be playing TWC or TW anytime soon, although I might snag my IG warhammer-fantasy "Rough Riders" into duty as Wolves; a cheap fast screen unit is something our Jump Marines definitely need (especially versus Flamers of Tzeentch).

 

;) Awesome opportunity to make giant bat riders! And thumb our noses at haters!

[Jolemai]

Nooooooooo don't give them ideas!

[Ushtarador]

Then you only have to dust your RAS with glitter and you're done! /:

[knife&fork]

Then you only have to dust your RAS with glitter and you're done! /:

 

Did this to a pair of scouts by mistake as I hadn't gotten all the metallic paint out when drybrushing. Didn't notice under the lamp but they subtly sparkle in daylight. :)

[Reichfaust]

Could you just have everyone painted up as blood angles and then "counts-as" the units from the SW codex? I mean, they are all space marines, and as long as they have the right wargear, you can paint them up any way you like.

 

As a Space Wolves player who has recently started a Blood Angels allied detachment using EXACTLY the same approach (as in, they are just painted the same as my chapter), I approve this message! :)

[Bartali]

A few things :-

 

If you run Mephiston, then of course Thunderwolf Cavalry attracts the same weapon profiles for target saturation. Cheap and cheerful (relatively) is best way to run them though, and since they are also Fleet and Cavalry they can run side along Mephiston and simply own house. Wolves can also provide cover for Mephiston, or Attack Bikes cover them both on their way in.

 

I probably wouldn't run them cheap. TWC give you something that's sorely lacking in the BA codex - fast assaulters with an invul save. You'll want a Hammer or fist with a liberal sprinkling of storm shields.

 

If you are thinking about running Tactical Terminators, then perhaps a Unit of Wolf Guard Terminators with Stormbolters and PowerAxes might actually provide a cheaper option (5 TDA for 165pts... mmm). Of course you can give them ALL combi-plasmagun (if footslog) or combi-meltas (if drop-podding) for 5pts each. If you like suicide-melta, these guys provide and may also be "less than suicidal" -- hitting a flank means they may even survive and provide good diversion effects too. Innate Counter-attack is nice. Also, one can be upgraded to Arjac who is simply a challenge master. I prefer cheaper though, 33pt Terminators is what is alluring here (38pt with combis). If you go for more upgrades, then usually BA Terminators will become more efficient. Final thought, if you take 5 and drop pod, you can give one a Cyclone Missile Launcher and attach him to the Grey Hunters you had to take-- adding to their firepower, while the 4 combi-meltas can drop in an ace a tank.

 

I don't think Wolf Guard Terminators are worth thinking about. We can get specials in quite easily elsewhere, and BA Terminators can get FNP

 

Need something cheaper? Having trouble setting screens for your Jump Marines since nothing cheap can keep pace? Cheapo Thunderwolves at 8 pts each are Beasts and can screen to deny assaults, provide cover saves to important stuff, hold off deep-strikers, deny objectives, trigger nasty Overwatches which will kill them but then Assault Marines can charge in for free, and hey they can always chew on Light Infantry. As fast Screens, there's nothing better because their bases are physically huge (the bike base) so you get a ton of coverage for only 8pts each. Also, terrain never slows Beasts down, so they'll never get in the way of a Jump Marine advance. Did I mention they can re-roll their Run? ^_^ Max unit size is 15, but take 10 for 80pts (or just 5 for 40pts) seems just fine to me-- even just one left accomplishes most of their jobs.

 

 

I'd probably run a Thunderwolf Lord in with the Fenrisian Wolves, which may even be a superior option to running plain Thunderwolf Cavalry. Saga of the Wolfkin bumps the Fenrisian Wolves up to Initiative 5.

Canis gives you a cheap option of getting Cavalry into a list (he makes Fenrisian Wolves troops). His lack of an invul save lets him down however.

 

 

 

Well, there you have it. I noticed very few Allied Space Wolves lists over in our Army List subforum, and I was wondering where all the love went. :P So I thought I'd provide some food for thought. And I didn't even mention once how Runeweapons still block Psychic tests like the old Psychic Hoods used to :) lol

 

Along with Cavalry, one of the main reasons to take Space Wolf allies.

[Jolemai]

Then you only have to dust your RAS with glitter and you're done! /:

 

Did this to a pair of scouts by mistake as I hadn't gotten all the metallic paint out when drybrushing. Didn't notice under the lamp but they subtly sparkle in daylight. ;)

 

Do we dare ask for pictures? ;)

[AGPO]

If you want to run the 'counts as' approach I'd recommend using a different successor to mark them out. I'm looking into doing some Flesh Tearers to be Space Wolves (Carnosaurs and Cold Ones replacing wolves) and Angels Vermillion as Vanilla 'dex marines so they stand out from my regulars. Heck you could even go the whole hog and do the Defence of Baal:

 

C:BA - Blood Angels

C:SM - Angels Sanguine

C:BT - Angels Encarmine

C:SW - Flesh Tearers

C:DA - Angels Vermillion

C:GK - Combined Librarians

[CitadelArmyGuy]

I probably wouldn't run them cheap. TWC give you something that's sorely lacking in the BA codex - fast assaulters with an invul save. You'll want a Hammer or fist with a liberal sprinkling of storm shields.

Well I suppose there is two minds about it. I think everyone agrees a Powerfist is near-required because Hidden Strength10 is awesome. For Stormshields, I agree as long as 50% or less of the TWC models take one then they may be a good idea. Shields on every model is unnecessary and points-wasteful; every two shields represent another model you could have taken.

 

I don't think Wolf Guard Terminators are worth thinking about. We can get specials in quite easily elsewhere, and BA Terminators can get FNP

Taking mass combi-weapons on 2+/5++ Sv models for sub-40pts each is not replicable for Blood Angels. Maybe a more niche selection, but certainly worth considering IMO. The FnP concern is valid for mid-field Terminators-- I completely agree there's a razor-edge of balance where BA Terminators will be better in almost all cases.

 

The drop-pod combi-melta Terminators is definitely better done by SW though-- 225pts for Pod with 5 WG Terms with combi-melta and power swords. They drop in and slag something turn 1, then threaten rear-units and cause diversion. Swords mean they will entice diversion of 2+ Sv units (opponents thinks "hey, I can kill 'em easy since they have no AP2"). Rearward-Diversion of 2+ Sv units will greatly help the rest of your army advance through midboard. Plus swords will annoy MEQ units who usually swing before TEQ, helping them fight backfield units like Devastators, Long Fangs, obj-squatter Scouts/Tacticals/MEQ, etc. Podding WG Termies is a very strategically flexible choice.

 

I'd probably run a Thunderwolf Lord in with the Fenrisian Wolves, which may even be a superior option to running plain Thunderwolf Cavalry. Saga of the Wolfkin bumps the Fenrisian Wolves up to Initiative 5.

Interesting thought. You know that might work, although my initial thoughts only see Fenris-Wolves as cheap disposables. A Wolf Lord with TWM, WolfSaga, 2+/3++ and PF with 5 Fenris-Wolves for ablative wounds will be 275pts (8 Wounds, 5 easy to kill). Match that versus 285pts for four TWC Models with 1 PF and 2 SS (8 Wounds, none ablative). Of course, it is not so black and white--- the Lord route is a far better Fixing force because he can challenge and will win the vast majority of the time. So I suppose if you need more fixing power then the Lord beats the TWC, but if you need destructive power then TWC is better. Also the Fenris-wolves can always split away to screen on their own; the Lord can smash face even as a loner, like Mephiston. Also like Mephiston, you can hide his single-model from Line of Sight rather easily--- hiding 4+ TWC models will be tougher than a single Lord.

 

Spending 15pt on the Wolfkin Saga would pay for 2 more wolves themselves; becoming I5 instills false confidence that they could be a combat unit. Versus MEQ, even I5 doesn't help them win protracted combat and versus most Light Infantry (the only Target they actively might seek) I5 may not matter. Final thought, if you take the Wolf Lord then you cannot take a Runepriest who is just about 70% of the reason to take SW allies at all (curse you Divination being so good!! lol)

 

For Canis, you are correct that he unlocks another Wolf unit, so you can take only two instead of only one (2 as Troops vs 1 as Fast Attack). IMO Canis is 185pts of bad decision: AP3 attacks, lack of Invulnerable Save, no EW, only 3+ Save... and Ld8 !?! why? :)

[Volcatus]

I'm kinda meh on the idea of Wolves for allies, myself. I did have a thought on making "counts as" T-Wolf cav for a BA army though. Death Company riding Baalite Fire Scorpions. Death Scorpion Cavalry, or something. Anyway, I doubt I'll ever convert one, but there's an idea for someone who's willing to try.

[SamaNagol]

**double**

[SamaNagol]

I run drop pods. Null deploy (aside from a bare bones unit of Scouts)

 

Grey Hunters are better at this. I take Space Wolves as my primary force for the Rune Priest and the Grey Hunters. Sure they can't get FnP but cheaper units and a TDA sergeant also adds resilience. And they are FAR better after the Alpha strike. Bolters and 3 A regardless. Lovely!

 

I knocked up some quick tactical marines which will count as GHs for a forthcoming tournament, but eventually I will model my marines up with Bolters and big combat blades much like Amit's company in Fear To Tread.

 

Then the rest is filled in with the alpha strike elements of BA that I like. Sternguard. VGV. DC in a pod.

 

I actually have more BA units than SW, but the 3 GH units to get the Wolf Guard necessitates the SW being the primary force

[Sokhar]

Death Company riding Baalite Fire Scorpions.

 

That is a stupidly awesome idea. Consider it stolen if I ever decide to try Thunderwolves. Original idea and fits our fluff. :thumbsup:

 

Back on topic, Wolves are very effective BA allies. Rune Priests are a given, and being battle brothers doesn't hurt either. Two squads of plasma Grey Hunters in Rhinos would work nicely in BA, given that we can sometimes have trouble dealing with 2+ units. And Long Fangs are always good for whatever is needed. Also kinda liking the idea of taking a Lone Wolf and just painting him up as a single Death Company marine. Not like we'd realistically have a dozen of the nutters running around on every battlefield. And their rule for only giving up kill points if they live fits quite nicely.

[SnorriSnorrison]

...and fits our fluff.

 

Let me stop you right there - did I miss anything? :)