loku Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 The CoChaos is one of the new and good rules for our CSM, but what happen with the Special Character when they roll 22, 23, 65 or 66 in the Boon Table? Let me explain: Abaddon never accept the daemonhood becuase he wants destroy the gold trone with his "human" hands so we paid for him 265 pts and... in a roll o 22, 23. 65 or 66 we lost him? The same with the others! The other thing is if Abaddon roll those D66s, the chaos spawn or daemon prince will have the mark of chaos ascendant (all 4 marks) so... a deamon prince will be amazing! (and will hate all daemons) What do you think? Or we must wait for a FAQ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ifrit446 Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 I definitely see the dilemma, not only do our psykers and sorcerors lose their psychic powers when they "morph" but our characters actually get WORSE :lol: It would make sense for Abby to "deny" any changes due to fluff but rulewise it stands as written sadly. But I definitely see your point about him having all the marks. It would make him a very promising Daemon Prince but Im still not sure that he would be as good as he was originally. Sadly we won't know how it will work out until an FAQ comes out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 If I'm to be perfectly honest, I don't mind it all that much. When we look to the fluff, we see that the love of the gods is a fickle and tenuous thing. The gods seek to reward their followers in many ways, some of them useful, other times not. A lord of chaos is just as likely to turn into an almighty daemon prince as he is to become a shambling horrorific spawn. The fact that the special characters are included in this shows that they are no different and they too are but subjects to the whims of the dark gods, puppets to play their tune. Its been a very long time since the fluff bit about Abaddon denying daemonhood has been mentioned and when it comes down to it, he doesn't have a choice if the dark gods are adamant about it. They are gods and he is still but a man. Besides, the sheer opportunity of having Abaddon butcher the most venerated Commander Dante and as he raises the corpse of the Blood Angles commander to the sky, the clouds part in a violent erruption of unholy light. Wreathed in the raw power of chaos, the Traitor King ascends to his rightful place as master of daemon and man, and the crimson path consumes Baal before pushing onwards towards Holy Terra... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caffeineated Chaos Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 I just think princehood should be stat buffs(either flat or take the character or DP's stats, whichever is higher) keep all wargear and upgrades(except maybe bike/cavalry/jump packs, but the acceptable upgrade like wings or getting to move as beasts in that case) and become a monstrous creature. Would've been more complex. But not unplayably so and would be much more rewarding. Still, as it stands that's a 1/9 chance to get a 21,22,65, or 66, so not so bad, though it obviously is a large enough chance that it will happen from time to time(of course this is avoided by having some patsy character to challenges, and let your special wreak havoc on the enemy squad the way he was meant to). And that is an awesome image noctus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus de Mortalis Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 I really liked how the 3.5 codex handled daemon princes with the rules and with the fluff. Champions were rewarded gifts by any of the main or lesser chaos gods, and that was just how it worked. Eventually with enough of these, they kind of just passed an arbitrary point where they could be called a daemon prince. In the game, if your lord exceeded 100 points of gifts, it was a daemon prince. I really liked this, as a daemon prince could really be any champion of chaos that was favored enough by the gods. This really made sense to me and I loved the idea. But then they came out with some fixed archetype of a daemon prince and it being some very certain limit where a champion turned into one. I really don't like the new fluff or how all daemon princes are the same in the game instead of what you want your daemon princes to be. And if you run two daemon princes in an army, it is just boring. In my mind, becoming a daemon prince is how it used to be, that champions are bestowed with more and more gifts and are buffed, not instantly transformed into some bland one-dimensional character. So the way it is handled in the fluff and rules in the codex now, it really grinds my gears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loku Posted October 15, 2012 Author Share Posted October 15, 2012 But... what happen with the spawnhood? If your Khârn turn into a spawn, what do you do?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 If your Khârn turn into a spawn, what do you do?... Ragequit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loku Posted October 15, 2012 Author Share Posted October 15, 2012 If your Khârn turn into a spawn, what do you do?... Ragequit. Epic response XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvadine Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 I just think princehood should be stat buffs(either flat or take the character or DP's stats, whichever is higher) keep all wargear and upgrades(except maybe bike/cavalry/jump packs, but the acceptable upgrade like wings or getting to move as beasts in that case) and become a monstrous creature. Would've been more complex. But not unplayably so and would be much more rewarding. Still, as it stands that's a 1/9 chance to get a 21,22,65, or 66, so not so bad, though it obviously is a large enough chance that it will happen from time to time(of course this is avoided by having some patsy character to challenges, and let your special wreak havoc on the enemy squad the way he was meant to). And that is an awesome image noctus. I agree, turning into a Damon Prince should be something you want for your champion, not something you fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Chaos and 40K should be much fun oriented and when it happens you should laugh and get on with the game! From a competetive perspective, you can't expect only benefits all the time and it's the balancing factor. If you're scared about it really, then just let your Aspiring Champions do the Challenge work and avoid the table and wipe out units with your expensive character. Abaddon and Khârn are already pretty unstoppable, so why do you even want to roll on the table after killing a single model when you could just have them carve through an entire squad? From a perspective from the fluff; the game isn't a literal translation of the back story of 40K, rather homage for fun. Your character might not want to be a Chaos pawn and become a Daemon Prince, but how are you going to represent 10,000 years of Chaos influence over the course a single game? It's perfect and characterful and perfectly fitting for Chaos Marines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RapatoR Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Well I think BoM table is great and fun mechanic making chaos unique but I have beef with it from fluff standpoint. As noctus already said, I saw change from champion to DP/spawn as gradual and as a result of warp influence combined with whims of gods. I imagined that champion becomes a Demon Prince after long service for particular god and suitable warp exposure or he might suddenly become DP after he commits unspeakable atrocities, like slaughtering billions. Just killing some leader of the squad simply isn't working for me, especially when battles are occurring outside of warp anomalies, where sudden occurrence of such mutations are highly unlikely. Two more things bother me: Fact that you have to "reset" background of your lord after every battle and that only way you can get roll is to kill enemy char - if killing sergeant is good enough, why slaughtering a squad or killing huge beast/destroying tank isn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Well most of the time you need to "reset" your back ground every battle anyway, since you might lose all your model in the army and the Warlord might die! Hell, I've killed Khârn on the table, as well as my mate's Dark Apostle (many times). If you're forming a narrative, then equate "death" on the table as "defeat" or just injury. Do the same with Chaos Boons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urauloth Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 If your Khârn turn into a spawn, what do you do?... After you recover from your laughing fit? No idea. I do think it's silly that spawndom and apotheosis affect special characters, but I also think it's silly that they happen instantly over the course of a game, too. Congrats, effortlessly defeating that imperial guard sergeant giving you the last couple of daemon points you needed! Wiping out that entire colony back there sure helped, but it just wasn't working for us until you stood on that NCO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Well I think BoM table is great and fun mechanic making chaos unique but I have beef with it from fluff standpoint. As noctus already said, I saw change from champion to DP/spawn as gradual and as a result of warp influence combined with whims of gods. I imagined that champion becomes a Demon Prince after long service for particular god and suitable warp exposure or he might suddenly become DP after he commits unspeakable atrocities, like slaughtering billions. Just killing some leader of the squad simply isn't working for me, especially when battles are occurring outside of warp anomalies, where sudden occurrence of such mutations are highly unlikely. Two more things bother me: Fact that you have to "reset" background of your lord after every battle and that only way you can get roll is to kill enemy char - if killing sergeant is good enough, why slaughtering a squad or killing huge beast/destroying tank isn't? Ummm... I think you're mistaking me for somebody else man because I was the one who said I support the idea of the Spawndom and Apotheosis on the chaos boon table... :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 From a competetive perspective, you can't expect only benefits all the time and it's the balancing factor. does logan , calgar or dante blow up from his own rules ? what is the balancing factor for SW armies HQs ? when we struggle because we can only play with 2 under 2k pts and SW can play with 4 under 2k . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 From a competetive perspective, you can't expect only benefits all the time and it's the balancing factor. does logan , calgar or dante blow up from his own rules ? what is the balancing factor for SW armies HQs ? when we struggle because we can only play with 2 under 2k pts and SW can play with 4 under 2k . I agree and again I also feel the CSM are portrayed as the Slaves of Darkness/the Legion of the Damned. As it stands now there is no glory bar personal glory that can be gained from the Chaos gods. With this I'm kind of upset since I would have liked it that they where portrayed (book 3.5) as a gigantic and deadly force rather than Pirates and Ninja's. Now this also is reflected in the rules, why, I don't know. Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffJedi Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 There was once a battle report where a character got turned into a frog or squig or something. After the battle the spell wore off and he turned back. All you'd have to say is that the Chaos Gods momentarily "charged up" or punished the special character for some reason or that Sorcerers were able to use their powers to fix them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 From a competetive perspective, you can't expect only benefits all the time and it's the balancing factor. does logan , calgar or dante blow up from his own rules ? what is the balancing factor for SW armies HQs ? when we struggle because we can only play with 2 under 2k pts and SW can play with 4 under 2k . Overall game Codex balance. Chaos Marines get Hatred against the opponents most likely to cause them trouble in assaults for fairly cheap per model, whilst Marks of Chaos give additional advantages. 40K players too often make direct comparisons on everything between Codex books when the overall balance is what we're really looking for. Besides, each of the characters you have mentioned cost a fortune in points and are nowhere near as powerful as the equivilent points investment special character in the Chaos Marine Codex i.e. Abaddon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Immortals Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Congrats, effortlessly defeating that imperial guard sergeant giving you the last couple of daemon points you needed! Wiping out that entire colony back there sure helped, but it just wasn't working for us until you stood on that NCO. I know a few NCO that im happy to volunteer B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caffeineated Chaos Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Congrats, effortlessly defeating that imperial guard sergeant giving you the last couple of daemon points you needed! Wiping out that entire colony back there sure helped, but it just wasn't working for us until you stood on that NCO. I know a few NCO that im happy to volunteer :) I second and third that motion, and would like to offer up a few commissioned ones as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiron Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 I have agreed with most of my regular fellow players, that this game is not meant to work on Tournaments or other competitions. It is supposed to be fun. And from where I am standing, the Boons table and the necessity to go to challenge is extreme fun! I like the mutations it offers (well most usually I got something of no value such as +1I on a lord with Power fist or Eternal Warrior on aspiring champion) but I am looking forward to see my lord ascend to daemonhood! To to the OP. I seized to play special characters. Okay, sometimes I take Khârn but rarely. Why? Because I want my own lord, with my own background, my own representation of myself on the battlefield to ascent to daemonhood! When it will happen to me I promiss you, I will roar at the top of my lungs that "THE AGE OF THE FALSE EMPEROR IS OVER AT LAST" and then broke to psychopatic laughter! And if I am gonna be turned to the spawn... well I will laugh only :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lepaca Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 From a competetive perspective, you can't expect only benefits all the time and it's the balancing factor. does logan , calgar or dante blow up from his own rules ? what is the balancing factor for SW armies HQs ? when we struggle because we can only play with 2 under 2k pts and SW can play with 4 under 2k . Overall game Codex balance. I loled. <_< I think the Chaos table is a really lazy way to implement the favor of the Chaos Gods in the game. With an annoying side-dish of "lol-random its Chaos!" There are lots and lots of results on the table that do diddely squad for squad champions (making Boon mostely a waste of points IMO) and HQs might even be worse off with the risk of being spawned/princed (and here I thought daemonhoof was a reward). In short, if I had the choice I propably would not roll on the table with HQ units. On the other hand it is not that big of a deal. Of course it sucks when Abby/Khârn/Typhus/etc. are replaced by a far less powerful model because of a special rule that is designed to make your characters more powerful (and which we pay for btw) but the chances of it happening are thankfully relativly small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Since squad Champions get rolls on the boon table as well, doesn't that mean they can become DPs too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Since squad Champions get rolls on the boon table as well, doesn't that mean they can become DPs too? If the dice so favor it, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 If you're spectacularly lucky, it's possibly to end the game with upwards of six daemon princes. Admittedly, they'll have no power armour, wings or psi-powered, but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.