Red corsairs

[Demoulius]

Hello all,

 

Ive bought the chaos dex, mostly to keep track of my potential new enemies and as well because im sick.... I need to have every codex :lol:

 

Anyway, a while ago I made a CSM force with some fluff which when I started looking around was oddly simular to that of the Red Corsairs... So I just decided to take their fluff and build my army around it. I just never got around to it. Due to lack of space I was forced to sell of my small warband and aside from some termies (only 1 assembled) I also bought the new starters set... but thats just an aside... I basicly have a fresh start!

 

The question I have is a fluff one. What kind of resources do the red corsairs posess? I can find precious little about them in the new dex, other then the little blurp on page 16 and the small fluff part on Huron Blackhearts page.

 

What vehicles do they posess? How big is their fleet? What vessels do they posess in said fleet? Mostly marine vesells or mostly navy/chaos? How many veterans have they turned? I can see rookies beeing easily turned to chaos but kinda find it unlikely that veterans several centuries old have joined their cause.

 

How many terminators and vehicles would they have at their disposal? How are they keeping themselves equipped with ammo and fuel (ships and dont exactly run on thin air <_<)

 

Also another one im somewhat confused about. Are the corsairs purely fleet based or do they have fixed fortifications (read: planets) in the Maelstrom?

 

Any help with these (many) questions is greatly apreciated :D

[Kol Saresk]

Basically, alot. It's the easiest way to explain. The Red Corsairs are spread through out the Maelstrom and have their hands in just about everything their. Not only that, but they are constantly drawing Traitors and Renegades to their banner who in turn bring ships, tanks and other resources with them. Also as pirates, they do a fair amount of raiding on Imperial shipping lanes and take their share of loot and every now and then take a ship over and refit for their purposes. Supposedly, the Red Corsairs are second in size only to the Black Legion itself. For all intents and purposes, the Red Corsairs are fleet-based but they control several waypoints, docking stations and even planets within the Maelstrom.

[Vesper]

What Kol said + they aren't fleet based. They are based on New Badab.

[minigun762]

What Kol said + they aren't fleet based. They are based on New Badab.

 

Was that the planet Honsou was on? I can't remember the name.

 

On topic, the Red Corsairs seem to have a significant level of forces available to them. Based on bits and pieces they often use other marines as mercs or sell their services. Huron is portrayed as an intelligent and intimidating leader but I'd say he isn't up to Abbadons level.

[Kol Saresk]

Yep, Honsou was on New Badab. And in Blood Reaver we see another planet as well as a Ramiles(sp?) Star Fort that belong to the Red Corsairs and their fleet also had many pirates, raiders and Renegade Astartes in it.

[Urauloth]

What vehicles do they posess? How big is their fleet? What vessels do they posess in said fleet? Mostly marine vesells or mostly navy/chaos?

 

"yes" is the answer to this.

 

They have a lot of resources they've stolen from other people in and outside the maelstrom. A lot of their fleet is non-astartes vessels operated by or siezed from human pirates in the maelstrom zone - everything from overhauled and up-gunned freighters and transports to military-grade destroyers and frigates. The bigger ships will be a mix of stuff they found in the warp, salvaged wrecks, enemy ships taken in boarding actions (Huron is really, really good at this) and whatever they've traded, gambled or comandeered from other renegades.

 

I'd expect a mix of old imperial cruiser designs and newer strike cruisers as their ships of the line (so to speak, the corsairs don't really like stand-up fleet engagements) and some newer imperial designs as a result of thievery, in various states of repair. I don't know if Huron has any refitted space hulks, but I'd wager he does.

 

In terms of grand cruisers and battleships, there's the Spectre of Ruin but I've no idea what that actually is (I think it's an old astral claws battle barge?) and they found several grand cruisers for their attack on the silver skulls fleet in The Gildar Rift. No desolators or despoilers, though, that I've heard of. Only the oldschool traitor legions have those.

 

e; In terms of ground vehicles, they have a lot. Prettymuch what you'd expect from a renegade chapter, mostly rhinos and predators (corsair predators are explicitly mentioned in the IG book). No idea if they have any land raiders. I doubt it, but they might have pilfered a few from somewhere. They also maintain a respectable number of thunderhawks.

 

There's very little Huron can't get his hands on if he really needs to; he might be completely insane, but he's smart and crafty and surprisingly good at making pacts and bargains. If there are dark mechanicus elements in the maelstrom to trade with, that would make his life easier - no idea if there are, but the word bearers own a forge world in there somewhere, so I'm guessing there could be. Also, unless I remember wrong, new badab has pretty extensive manufacturing capabilities, it's quite possible he can make his own vehicles there.

[Shuggnuggath]

I expect they are pretty well equipped, Huron is no slouch.

[Demoulius]

So if im reading this right "anything goes" :lol:

 

second in size only to the black legion? :blink: Dident know they were that big of a faction B) Let me ask some more questions then :D (and thanks for anwsering me so far :))

 

*Its not unreasonable to inmagine they have their fair share of terminators and deamon engines I take it?

*Do chapters that join the red corsairs stay as a unified warband or are they spread out through the corsairs forces?

*New Badab, what is the planet like? Where can I find fluff on it?

*Does Huron allow warbands/warmasters within the Red Corsairs to act independantly or does he hold them on a very short leash?

*Aside from boarding actions what sort of warfare would the red corsairs excell at? Or is that dependant on the individual warband and its mercenaries?

*The last dex had a blurp saying people joining the red corsairs basicly swore oaths of wealty and painted their amour red but that was basicly it, as far as I can renember... Would there be more for a band of renegades to join up? Perhaps prove their worth or something?

*do warbands pay tiths or somesuch to the red corsairs? Can see Huron wanting something in return for poeple running under his banner :D

[Pariah Mk.231]

From the seemingly exponential growth of his forces, you pretty much have to assume that they couldn't possibly make do solely by raiding for what they need, they would also need their own production facilities. I doubt it would exceed the capabilities of the Iron Warriors, but it would have to stack up fairly well next to them.

[Pariah Mk.231]

*Its not unreasonable to inmagine they have their fair share of terminators and deamon engines I take it?

 

Not sure about his access to daemon engines, but back in 2nd edition, if Huron was your commander you needed to spend twice as many summoning points to bring daemons into play, representing their rarity in the Maelstrom. Going by this, I'd guess his access to daemon engines would be somewhat more limited than those traitors living within the Eye, since summoning them is already harder, doing so to bind them to a vehicle would also be somewhat harder.

 

As for termies, yes Huron has ready access to them, but in 2nd ed they were actually chosen from Codex: Ultramarines (so stormbolters instead twinbolters and so on) and were pretty much all Astral Claw veterans. He obviously can't do that now, but it might be worth it to model them as loyalist termies in Red Corsair colours with some Astral Claws markings. He can probably field more than a typical loyalist chapter since he probably makes a point to steal the suits whenever he can, plus whatever he had left after fleeing Badab and continually repatching them to keep them working longer.

[Glaeken Templaris]

Hmmm intresting stuff lads. Building a corsairs army myself ive read as much as ai can and pretty much second everything said so far.

Huron may be a few bolts short of a full clip but even in his insanity he has forged himself an force that could topple the black legion if he ever wanted to. As for daemon engines, the packs he forged with the dark gods as he tettered on the brink of oblivion after taking a melta shot to the face should explain how he has access to them. imo huron is 2nd favored of chaos undivided. should abbadon fall then i think their favour will find him. but thats off topic lol. yeah the corsairs have access to pretty much everything and anything pillfered from the imperum and other chaos forcesif he needs them.

[Demoulius]

Pariah Mk.231Posted Today, 09:46 AM

Not sure about his access to daemon engines, but back in 2nd edition, if Huron was your commander you needed to spend twice as many summoning points to bring daemons into play, representing their rarity in the Maelstrom. Going by this, I'd guess his access to daemon engines would be somewhat more limited than those traitors living within the Eye, since summoning them is already harder, doing so to bind them to a vehicle would also be somewhat harder.

 

Huh? Could you explain what you mean by that mate? I thought the Maelstrom was a rift in real space in the same manner as the eye of terror is? Also if cultists can summon deamons then im sure an organisation like the red corsairs can? ;)

 

Having a band of original Red Corsairs around I actually dident think off... I did consider a ragtag band of Chosen though, with atleast a fallen Dark Angel amongst their numbers :lol:

 

What level of sanity would the pirates have on avarage? Are all Red Corsairs as crazy as Huron is?

[Kol Saresk]

*Its not unreasonable to inmagine they have their fair share of terminators and deamon engines I take it?

Nope, not nowadays.

 

*Do chapters that join the red corsairs stay as a unified warband or are they spread out through the corsairs forces?

Hmm, that's never really specified as far as I know. What I do know is that there are instances of Renegade Chapters fighting alongside the Red Corsairs, much like a miniature Black Crusade, just little if any Legion participation.

 

*New Badab, what is the planet like? Where can I find fluff on it?

I've never heard of the planet described in detail. It's shown in Skull Harvest by Graham McNeill in the Heroes of the Space Marines anthology.

 

*Does Huron allow warbands/warmasters within the Red Corsairs to act independantly or does he hold them on a very short leash?

He's known as the Tyrant of the Maelstrom, but from what I've seen, as long as he gets what he wants, he's okay with people just running around. But don't expect him to be nice if you screw up.

 

*Aside from boarding actions what sort of warfare would the red corsairs excell at? Or is that dependant on the individual warband and its mercenaries?

The actual Red Corsairs part of Huron's forces seem to excel at rapid assault with overwhelming firepower.(Bitter End, Treacheries of the Space Marines)

 

*The last dex had a blurp saying people joining the red corsairs basicly swore oaths of wealty and painted their amour red but that was basicly it, as far as I can renember... Would there be more for a band of renegades to join up? Perhaps prove their worth or something?

I don't exactly know the answer to that one. I imagine there would be some sort of initiation right.

 

*do warbands pay tiths or somesuch to the red corsairs? Can see Huron wanting something in return for poeple running under his banner :)

I imagine that the ones who wear his colors would pay some sort of tithe, but I have no idea what it would be. Probably the best of the spoils. The warbands that just fight alonside probably have a type of deal where they get what they want and he gets what he wants type situation.

 

Hope this helps.

[Pariah Mk.231]

Pariah Mk.231Posted Today, 09:46 AM

Not sure about his access to daemon engines, but back in 2nd edition, if Huron was your commander you needed to spend twice as many summoning points to bring daemons into play, representing their rarity in the Maelstrom. Going by this, I'd guess his access to daemon engines would be somewhat more limited than those traitors living within the Eye, since summoning them is already harder, doing so to bind them to a vehicle would also be somewhat harder.

 

Huh? Could you explain what you mean by that mate? I thought the Maelstrom was a rift in real space in the same manner as the eye of terror is? Also if cultists can summon deamons then im sure an organisation like the red corsairs can? ^_^

 

Having a band of original Red Corsairs around I actually dident think off... I did consider a ragtag band of Chosen though, with atleast a fallen Dark Angel amongst their numbers ;)

 

What level of sanity would the pirates have on avarage? Are all Red Corsairs as crazy as Huron is?

 

 

It is indeed a warp rift, but compared to the Eye, it might as well be a glorified nebula with a few bad elements hanging out there. The overlap between warp/real space is much more intense in the Eye than in the Maelstrom, making the transition for daemons to cross over so much easier. That being the case, daemons had a much greater tendancy to use the Eye as their gateway and simply "ride the wave" of warp energy flowing out to the rest of the galaxy. To represent this, in 2nd edition Huron's forces had to build up twice as many summoning points (they didn't start on the table and could only enter play by possessing one of your models, which removed the model, or by generating summoning points for each god's type of daemon through particular acts in game: Every hit inflicted in melee generated you a Khorne summoning point, for example) as other Chaos forces. It took 2 points to bring in a lesser daemon and 10 for a greater daemon normally, but if Huron was your commander it took 4 and 20 respectively. Daemons simply weren't interested in having to put extra effort in to force their way through and hang out in the Maelstrom when they could do so much easier over in the Eye.

Sure, the daemons are actually popping right out of the warp onto planets rather than actually physically tagging along for the entire trip, but if you think of the warp energy leaking through these rifts and flowing outwards into realspace, like water dripping out of a tap and running down a slope, the daemons could simply move along inside it and wait for something to break the surface tension (such as the rituals performed by Chaos worshippers, immense bloodshed, several psykers throwing powers around, etc.), then they could jump out and wreak havoc. The Maelstrom could be seen as a slightly leaky tap that only drips every so often, while the Eye essentially produces a constant dribble. Technically, any weakening of the veil could be used, and often are, but daemons would probably rather exert less effort crossing over to preserve their energy to maintain their presence in the material realm just a bit longer. GW has changed how daemons and the relationship between the warp and realspace works over the years, but back in the day that's how I understood it to work. It's one of the only reasonable explainations for why daemons should be harder to summon for someone in the Maelstrom than in the Eye. If they're simply breaking through from the warp to real space, why would it matter where it's happening? Surely it wouldn't make a difference at the point of transition where the summoner calls home, unless the point of transition is only the final barrier between the daemons and realspace? If the daemons have to cross other barriers along the way that could explain the difference, with the Eye providing the path of least resistence.

 

I can't explain why else GW would say in the 2nd ed codex that daemons would be rarer in one warp rift than another and reflect it in-game by charging a force from one warp rift more summoning points then a force from another warp rift, unless their point of origin actually had some impact on how the daemons are getting through to realspace. It's not like they were only fighting within their respective rifts and their enemies came to them. It was when out in the wider galaxy that they were fighting and summoning daemons, so the abundance of daemons hanging out back home shouldn't have had any bearing. They weren't rounding them up and herding them onto the ships and deploying them like everyone else, but calling them right out of the warp. The daemons must have needed a weakening of the barrier from existing warp energy, and the rift it was bleeding through must have actually had significance.

 

You could of course just say GW went full retard on that one and that I've had to come up with some far-fetched theory to justify it to myself rather than simply recognising bad writing on their part.

[Kol Saresk]

I would imagine that GW was putting the focus on the Eye versus the Maelstrom. The only thing of note in the Maelstrom are the Red Corsairs and the Word Bearers of Ghalmek. Meanwhile in the Eye, you have the presence of nine Traitor Legions present to some degree at any one time. It is also the staging point for every Black Crusade. And for some reason that is where everyone wants to go unless they are in the Eastern Fringe.

 

Also, the Maelstrom was pretty much the bad neighborhood that if the Imperium left it alone, nothing serious came from it until after the Badab War when the Corsairs took up residence.

[Trevak Dal]

The cool thing about Red Corsairs is that they utilize non-astartes grade ships. Some may see that as a silly thing to fixate on, but it shows their tenacity and adaptability to survival.

 

Red Corsairs are portrayed as a force that it's generally a bad idea to mess with. Like most astartes who have 'dropped flags' and gone rogue, they have the entire course load of the Codex Astartes to go by (fluff wise) so they can make any base they take over a hard target.

 

While being pretty big-they have to conserve resources so that they can effectively salvage more than they lose, both in enemy geneseed and war material. They seem to operate primarily in small raiding groups, hitting ships and outposts before Jumping back to the safety of the Maelstrom and New Badab (I've heard it described as a planet, and also as a space base...) to barter off goods.

 

All Red Corsairs owe fealty to Huron Blackheart. If they cross him, cut him out of the loot or otherwise try to disrespect his Authority...he sends out his Hounds-Sons of Anarchy style to collect the bastard(s), and either kill Him(them) or, if he's feeling particularly like Making an Example, will horribly cripple the bastard and inter him into a dreadnought sarcophagus-never to be engaged in a Dreadnought chassis and left to scream and writhe in the amniotic fluid, until they are loaded into a Dreadnought chassis and unleashed as a maddened Hellbrute on their enemies.

 

There are not only "full blooded" Red Corsairs who were veterans of the Badab War, but also numerous others who have joined (and some of the Astral Claws' allies who went with them after their defeat)

 

They mostly attack and raid-forgive me for the internet speak-for the Lulz-of attacking and raiding the areas that were formerly under their domain of protection and to let the imperial citizenry know that the Imperium's defenders can't be everywhere at once.

 

Regarding Daemons from the Maelstrom, vs the Eye of Terror. I've read somewhere that the Maelstrom was a 'naturally occurring spatial anomaly' where the Eye was the seat of the Eldar Empire-whose decadence and debauchery led to the birth of the warp entity/'god'/'goddess' Slanesh, which sent out a powerful aftershock across the area and made a massive Warp storm.

 

Maybe the Maelstrom was the birthscar of one of the other chaos gods, but because it happened so long ago it's shrank in size and appears 'natural'? Maybe it is indeed a natural anomaly, where the Warp/Reality transition has led to unusual mineralogical formations (one of the reasons the region was considered 'valuable' despite being somewhat remote and not having many Good habitable planets)

[Shuggnuggath]

Pre Badab war the Astral Claws had a lot of surplus war materiel, I think they manufactured a lot of their own stuff like Rhinos ect. They had enough to keep the Mantis Warriors and Lamenters supplied as well as Hurons own expanded 'legion'.

 

They also had many secret forward training bases hidden within the Maelstrom itself (at least according to the FW Badab books). I think Huron is the kind of guy that probably 'put some stuff away' in case things didn't pan out with the succession, he may be bonkers but he's no dummy.

[Urauloth]

The cool thing about Red Corsairs is that they utilize non-astartes grade ships. Some may see that as a silly thing to fixate on, but it shows their tenacity and adaptability to survival.

 

To be fair, a lot of renegade forces do this - the even black legion make extensive use of stolen imperial navy ships, and during the Gothic war Abaddon pressed all kinds of ships into service as transports. This seems to be a common practice; the Adharon's Bane was a huge transport ship which, if I recall correctly, was once a civilian bulk freighter before it was taken over by renegades and stuffed full of cultists, mutants and beastmen to dump on imperial worlds.

 

I think in general CSM warbands will make use of any ship they can get hold of in some way or another. The corsairs do seem to exemplify this tendancy, though.

[Demoulius]

Thanks for all the feedback all :woot: greatly appreciated!