Does Khorne mean insanity automatically?

[Julgolax]

I am curious and want some seasoned chaos space marine player feedback. In the lore, do all Khorne Lords and Khorne marines have to be insane psychopathic axe-murderers or can they actually think, shoot, and coordinate? I mean, I love the look and feel of Chaos but more and more I find myself put off by how foolish chaos space marines seem to be. Worship Nurgle, you melt inside your decaying, non-functioning armor. Worship Slaanesh, you turn into a S&M naked mole-rat on drugs. Worship Tzeentch and you go insane and eventually explode into a warp hole. Worship Khorne (my favorite god) and you turn into Jason Voorheez and would gladly run down the barrel of a volcano cannon to kill a kitten.

 

 

I dunno. I'm trying to go with a Legion or a Warband of Chaos Space Marines that ISNT bound for some ridiculous fate. Can someone help me?

[Lord of Blades]

PErsonally, I like the idea of maniacs, but the World Eaters and Khorne worshippers aren't ALL insane. I mean, there have to be some smart folks who command them, and pilot their warships. Also, their psycho-conditioning Flesh Melders are perfectly sane. There are many ways you can go with them. If you are looking for pure insanity in a legion, go Night Lords... Those bastards are f-ed up

[Julgolax]

PErsonally, I like the idea of maniacs, but the World Eaters and Khorne worshippers aren't ALL insane. I mean, there have to be some smart folks who command them, and pilot their warships. Also, their psycho-conditioning Flesh Melders are perfectly sane. There are many ways you can go with them. If you are looking for pure insanity in a legion, go Night Lords... Those bastards are f-ed up

 

 

Not the most comforting of responses. I always thought that Chaos Space Marines generally worship the gods but in doing so they are protected within the warp, such is the case in the short story "The Rewards of Tolerance" by Gav Thorpe.

 

 

In The Rewards of Tolerance, the Librarian makes a pact with a powerful daemon of the warp in order to save his renegade brothers from being ripped apart by the warp. The Gellar field around the starship was being battered to and fro until he made the bargain with the daemon in his mind and afterward it was smooth sailing through the warp tides.

 

 

And that is just one example of what I've read. Like I said, I dunno for sure. I've always been fascinated with Tzeentch and the Sorcerers as leaders of Chaos because Sorcerers, if they are wise enough, have nothing to fear from the gods and the daemons of the warp since they learn to command such powers. Then again, I don't like how the lore has made them out to be ticking time bombs of insanity and instability.

[Cheex]

Psychopaths, absolutely. But being a psychopath doesn't mean you have no cognitive function; it just means you bear no regard for the value of another person's life. I feel that a Khorne worshipper - and I'm talking about a truly dedicated follower - is someone that will feel an almost physical need to kill. How they prefer to kill, and the sorts of rituals they will follow when executing their kill is down to the individual. Some might relish in the feel of warm blood on their skin, others might enjoy the slow escape of life while choking a helpless victim, or they might get their kicks from killing someone from a distance where the enemy can do nothing to stop them.

 

Regarding a Chaos Marine's "ridiculous fate", that's part of the point of Chaos. It's almost like a sick tragedy, in its own way; often a Marine will join Chaos for what they see is a righteous cause or they might be blinded by their own ambition, but in the end most followers of Chaos are doomed to obscurity, madness or spawndom. Ultimately, it's exactly what the 40k universe is all about, in its rawest form.

[Julgolax]

What intrigued me in the previous CSM codex is that it said some turn to khorne for martial skill and physical strength. Does that come at the cost of your sanity or can one offer kills and skulls to khorne on the victory pile and still keep one's focus and sanity?

[Boshea]

They're perfectly sane, just quick tempered from the neural implants.

[Redemption2994]

From my experience, most Khornates will often have an extreme bloodthirst and get lost in the heat of battle. I think I recall seeing a piece of fluff about a particular character who when worked into a rage, would not be able to come down from it until 2 days later. While most berzerkers are fanatic in their need to kill, I don't think most of them are absolutely insane. Crazy isn't a requirement, but we certainly do welcome it!

[Azekai]

They're perfectly sane, just quick tempered from the neural implants.

Except Khârn, but he is still a pretty fun guy to hang around.

[Rain]

It's kind of the nature of the beast I'm afraid, the sensitive thoughtful marines are that-a way in the Chapters of Legend subforum. The World Eaters on the other hand are truly war given form. They are ugly, uncivilized and unrelenting, they are the shock and the awe and the collateral damage. Individually they are nihilists, they believe in no great goal or crusade, and exist only to spread death, welcoming their own demise with the same relish with which they mete it out to their enemies, enemies that I should mention often include other World Eaters as peaceful cohesion is anathema to the Legion.

 

My point is that the World Eaters are a walking metaphor, they don't just like war, they are war, incorporating every grisly and unsightly detail from friendly fire to the enjoyment of killing and the loss of any greater moral cause or purpose. In light of this, my mental image of the World Eaters isn't just as frothing cartoon villains but as jaded and severely mentally scarred warriors that see themselves as and act as if they were a force of nature. This is why berzerkers are so willing to offer up their own blood, it comes from a sense of purity and oneness with what was always the purpose of the Adeptes Astartes; war.

[Blackmonkey0]

I like to think of my Berzerkers to be like the Hulk.

Perfectly rational and sane normally but when they are in the zone and the combat drugs kick in they totally lose the plot and go ape:cuss.

[Jiron]

Not all Khorne followers however are World Eaters or Berzerkers. I will now go somewhere, where I am not sure there is some background already made but what makes sense to me...

 

Imagine a warrior. Highly skilled swordsman who believes that in heat of battle lies justice. In clash of swords, the better wins. He pledge his soul to Khorne and dedicate his victories to him. He start to keep a tally and ritually cuts heads of the fallen but still is highly skilled swordsman, yet serving the blood god. He gives his offerings and recieves rewards but still is not a mindless beast. Yes, he will likely murder civilians, burned whole cities and so on. But it doesn't make him a fool.

[Sneekystabs]

My Arctic Serpents are very Khorne influenced and well in my war-bands fluff, they just sacrifice/kill for Khorne but are level headed and not frothing at the mouth with rage. but I guess everyone's different. :3

[Killax]

To awnser the question:

 

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ma5yywxkry1r60h6bo1_500.gif

[Schultzhoffen]

There's an excellent portrayal of a Night Lord turning to Khorne in the Night Lords Series by ADB (I think). I don't think he is an actual Khorne Beserker but he does have issues with self control (even when not in battle). I would assume a Khorne Beserker is a frothing maniac.

 

I don't see Khorne as anything but butchery.

[PipX]

In an old, old short story their was a WE apothecary who had an Avenging Sons marine captured, with the intent to harvest his gene seed to use to grow more gene seeds. This particular WE was coherent, verbose, and in full control of his faculties.

 

I think WE, between butcheries, still have to do their day jobs.

[Kol Saresk]

I am curious and want some seasoned chaos space marine player feedback. In the lore, do all Khorne Lords and Khorne marines have to be insane psychopathic axe-murderers or can they actually think, shoot, and coordinate? I mean, I love the look and feel of Chaos but more and more I find myself put off by how foolish chaos space marines seem to be. Worship Nurgle, you melt inside your decaying, non-functioning armor. Worship Slaanesh, you turn into a S&M naked mole-rat on drugs. Worship Tzeentch and you go insane and eventually explode into a warp hole. Worship Khorne (my favorite god) and you turn into Jason Voorheez and would gladly run down the barrel of a volcano cannon to kill a kitten.

 

 

I dunno. I'm trying to go with a Legion or a Warband of Chaos Space Marines that ISNT bound for some ridiculous fate. Can someone help me?

Hammer of Daemons by Ben Counter. Takes place on a Khornate Daemonworld. Not only do you see different facets of his worshippers, you also see that some worship different "aspects" of Khorne himself.

[Tenebris]

A Khorne follower can be a honourable and mighty champion as well as a bloodthirsty maniac. There are many types of followers but all have in common the lust for war, bloodshed and close combat. Some Khorne followers might take the field clad in polished bronze armour and challenge the enemy champions in honourable combat, some can be even mighty fleet admirals who persecute void warfare as their trade and honour Khorne in spaceship battles, where tens of thousands die by the minute, other are simply ravening bands of berzerkers, both astartes and human who simply roam around and kill and destroy everything.

 

There is no reason to make a Khorne follower a madman. Sure he is certainly bloodthirsty but in an average battle it is better to cling to some sort of plan and thus reap a greater tally of skulls and blood. I envision Khorne space marines as warriors who are both honourable and ruthless, who obbey the commands of their superiors and fight with the typical discipline and determination of an astartes. Khorne Berzerkers on the other side are berzerkers in the true form and usually they work themselves into frenzy before the battle, ending their rage when the battle is over and than function as a normal astartes would

 

Now it is almost certain that over a long lapse of time in service to the Blood God an average follower would absorb the rage and the relentlessness of Khorne and thus live his whole life for a battlefield harvest of skulls and blood but still Lords and commanders are above those things, they learned how to channel their rage, it gives them focus and thus transforms them into the true avatars of war. This means that they are engines of destruction, they plan conquest (which requires a clear mind), organize their armies (again requires a modicum of control) and have to respond to the enemy strategy (which means that they have to take a step back from the carnage and plan according to the enemy moves). The measure of the warrior in Khorne's eyes is the tally of skulls harvested for the Skull Throne and a focused, disciplined space marine commander would reap a much higher tally than a frenzied madman, thus gain more favor from the Blood God.

 

All in all a Khornate Chaos Lord is a leader of shock troops, he must be aggressive and dominant but still he has to study in detail every his movement or his powerful but fragile army will be soon undone by a lesser enemy in a better battlefield position. "Madness" might entail the savage blood rites, the butchery of the slaves and prisoners or other bloody deeds but to be war one must understand war and this is a hard and demanding task and requires a strong and clear mind. Let it be the blood haze, the revel in bloodshed but someone had to bring all those troops and engines on the battlefield and someone has to command them with his mind on this purpose.

[Odsox]

Hammer of Daemons by Ben Counter. Takes place on a Khornate Daemonworld. Not only do you see different facets of his worshippers, you also see that some worship different "aspects" of Khorne himself.

 

I cannot agree with this recommendation enough. It is an excellent, eye-opening book on what you can do with Khorne worship. If it wasn't for the brilliant ideas in Hammer of Daemons I'd still be playing a Loyalist army.

 

Od.

[Kastor Krieg]

There's an image of a female Guard in the 40K Chaos RPG, Black Crusade, standing on a battlefield, bloodied, with a raised chainaxe and a lowered laspistol, Khorne pendant on her neck - evidently saluting Khorne. That's how I see a cool facet of Khorne worshippers - not the Zerks, not the World Eater madness, but utter undending glory of the battlefield. She's a :cussing rockstar in that image and she played an awesome gig, dancing on the bodies of her enemies, just for Khorne.

 

EDIT - there it is:

http://img547.imageshack.us/img547/3308/khorne.png

[Brother Heinrich]

I personally enjoyed the portrayal of World Eaters in The Outcast Dead, less just frothing idiots with zero regard for self preservation, and more calculated, precise wielders of extreme violence. From an outsiders perspective it looks like a murder-frenzy, but when looked at closely you realize they smash into a squad, kill the sergeant, kill the special/heavy weapons troopers, kill anything that can bring unit cohesion or superior firepower before slaughtering the rest. Only when being cornered and left with zero options will they sell their lives in a psychotic, mind-blowing moment of endurance like impaling themselves on an opponents weapon just to get close enough to choke the life out of them.

[Killax]

Same as I've mentioned in the other topic about Khorne much like this.

 

The awser is No, but yes if he wishes to be.

 

The World Eaters are insane but also partially to implants form their primarch's design and the fact they are so ungodly strong that they cannot find the challenge in battle they need to supress their insanity.

 

Cheers,

[Hellios]

Well the World Eaters have surgery that makes them a little less stable than the average man on the street. No doubt some of them are insane. I think Khârn is a perfect example. Before the HH the WEs already had a reputation for being a bit unstable and a bit blood thirsty but Khârn was apparently one of the more level headed captains. Once he went to Khorne he started to become crazier than a barrel full of monkeys. However he is so crazy that he 'scares/worries/alarms or whatever else is it other world eaters think/feel. Khârn is a guy who is so crazy that he makes other crazies go damn he is crazy.

 

Also just talking about the idea behind going berserk in some traditional forms of combat. The fighter isn't crazed normally but stores all his energy be this Ki/Chi/Gwi/Anger/whatever and even ties it in knots so that it is just trying to burst out. Then on the field of battle it is all released in one go in a giant blaze of fury where the combatant is supposed to be stronger than normal, have a greater resistance to pain and so on. It is essentially the other side of coin from martial arts that follow the idea of the calm mind. They might well lack some control until they finally use all that energy up.

 

If zerkers follow that kind of pattern it would make sense. They can think while travelling, while planning, while lining up. Then they hit combat and at some point a switch is thrown and they go nuts. How long this lasts might vary from individual to individual. Some might be able to go from calm to rage and back in minutes while others might continue to feel rage for hours after a battle has finished.

[Kay]

I think that Khorne is not about being insane. It is about being angry.

 

Have you seen Tom Hardy in the Warrior? To me, THAT is Khorne, plain and simple. He knows. He thinks, He analyzes you. He smash your head to pulp barehanded, red-eyed and shouting, because he is extremely angry and he just want to kill you in the fastest, most effective possible way.

[khurdur]

Well, I think most of them are quite berserk, but can control it to some extent. The fluff was retconned in the new 'dex, if you read the entry in the bestiary about chaos lords it says khorne lords can retain their intelligence, and only go mad in battle.....

[Tenebris]

I envision the Khrone Berzerkers as Captain Titus from the game Space Marine, always in Fury mode. They think, focus and chain their attacks with the goal to maximize the carnage and when the throes of rage leave them they are sharp and astute warriors, the bloodthirsty veterans we all love.