Vargis Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Hey guys, forgive me if this has been addressed elsewhere, I wasn't able to find clarification so I decided to make an account and stop lurking finally. :tu: I started collecting a month or so ago, going splits on dark vengeance with my brother and converting the dark angels to either space wolves for me, or chaos for him. I also picked up two kits of space wolves (which I turned into grey hunters), a wolf guard terminator box, sniper scouts and some fenrisian wolves to use as wargear for my lone wolf and wolf lord on foot. I don't have any transportation yet, and the reason I've held off is because I'm wondering about the viability of outflanking a unit of wolf guard terminators with my wolf priest. From what I understand, his saga of the hunter confers to any unit he joins, so my question is, can I have my Wolf Lord in TDA join the unit of Wolf Guard in TDA with the wolf priest, and have the whole group outflank? Can I even have my wolf lord in the same unit as my wolf priest? Does the saga of the hunter confer to him as well? Thanks in advance if anyone can answer my question. I'm a bit stumped as to what I want to do, because if I can't outflank with them, I need to find another way to get those wolf guard up there fast, and since they're in TDA I cant cram them all in a transport. (I'm not sure if I could spread them across two drop pods, if that is allowed) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/263467-a-question-about-saga-of-the-hunter/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. A. K. Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 yes you can, they can even do it in a land raider as long as the Raider is the dedicated transport for the Wolf Guard unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/263467-a-question-about-saga-of-the-hunter/#findComment-3209746 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wispy Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 yes Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/263467-a-question-about-saga-of-the-hunter/#findComment-3209748 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bongfu Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 To offer a more detailed explanation: The new rules of 6th ed state that if one model has it in the unit, ALL models have the special rule. So putting a SW character with Saga of the Hunter in a squad gives them ability to outflank. They can only outflank in a transport if that squad has it as a dedicated transport. You can put a wolf guard battle leader with saga of the hunter in a squad of wolf guard in a land raider and outflank it. However, you cannot put a Grey Hunter squad in a land raider with the same wolf guard battle leader and outflank it. Because the Grey Hunters cannot take a land raider as a dedicated transport. Hope that clears it up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/263467-a-question-about-saga-of-the-hunter/#findComment-3209814 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmare84 Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Lord can't have tda and outflank. Everything else you can do though. Give him runic armor and hide him behind A meat shield. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/263467-a-question-about-saga-of-the-hunter/#findComment-3209855 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Lord can't have tda and outflank.Everything else you can do though. Give him runic armor and hide him behind A meat shield. Its not the lord who is giving them outflank, its the priest. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/263467-a-question-about-saga-of-the-hunter/#findComment-3209894 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vargis Posted October 16, 2012 Author Share Posted October 16, 2012 Thanks a lot for your response guys, so just to clarify that there's nothing wrong with my setup for these guys... it's perfectly legal for me to outflank a group consisting of: - Wolf Lord in TDA with WolfClaw/Chainfist and two Fenrisian wolves as wargear - 5-10 Wolf Guard in TDA - Wolf Priest - A dedicated transport depending on how many of those wolf guard in TDA I decide to bring Also, if you could answer one more question for me... If I have a unit of say 10 wolf guard in tda, am I allowed to use two seperate drop pods since only 5 will fit in each? Completely unrelated to the wolf priest or wolf lord. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/263467-a-question-about-saga-of-the-hunter/#findComment-3210257 Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain fabian Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Yes you can do that but remember that the Wolf priest MUST have the Saga of the Hunter in order for you to do so. As for your other question no you cannot put a 10 man unit in 2 different transports. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/263467-a-question-about-saga-of-the-hunter/#findComment-3210303 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belfast Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Thanks a lot for your response guys, so just to clarify that there's nothing wrong with my setup for these guys... it's perfectly legal for me to outflank a group consisting of: - Wolf Lord in TDA with WolfClaw/Chainfist and two Fenrisian wolves as wargear - 5-10 Wolf Guard in TDA - Wolf Priest - A dedicated transport depending on how many of those wolf guard in TDA I decide to bring Also, if you could answer one more question for me... If I have a unit of say 10 wolf guard in tda, am I allowed to use two seperate drop pods since only 5 will fit in each? Completely unrelated to the wolf priest or wolf lord. Unfortunately no. Basically 1 unit of wolf guard must either be in one individual unit, split off as pack leaders, or some combination of the 2. However, there is nothing stopping you from running 2 seperate wolf guard units and giving each their own drop pod Also, for some added shenanigans, you should pick up Logan grimnar to replace your lord since your wp is giving saga of the hunter. They will be outflanking, scoring termies in a land raider. Very hard to deal with. Edit: If you go with a LRC over a LRR, I'd pick up a multi melta do you can maybe pop a tank when using potms Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/263467-a-question-about-saga-of-the-hunter/#findComment-3210304 Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain fabian Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 I may be mistaken but you are no longer scoring from inside a vehicle if that's what you mean. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/263467-a-question-about-saga-of-the-hunter/#findComment-3210306 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belfast Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 I may be mistaken but you are no longer scoring from inside a vehicle if that's what you mean. By the end of the match, I highly doubt your termies and hq's will still be inside the lr very often ;) Edit: I see the confusion. With Logan, not only will Your termies be out flanking in a lr, but the termies will also be scoring. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/263467-a-question-about-saga-of-the-hunter/#findComment-3210313 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vargis Posted October 16, 2012 Author Share Posted October 16, 2012 Thanks again for the further clarification. I was considering switching out the Wolf Lord for Logan Grimnar, but as awesome and amazing as Space Wolves HQ options are, (stats and fluff-wise) I really like to personalize the :D out of my models and that's why I opted for the Wolf Lord. As tempting as having them as a scoring unit would be, I think just cramming enough BANG into that group and unleashing them on the enemy will leave my footslogging grey hunters with a lot of freedom to take objectives anyway. Also, when I get into 2k points or higher games I was considering fielding Khor'sarro Khan as an ally in a unit of swiftclaw bikers with another wolf priest, allowing them to utilize his hit and run to repeatedly charge units (with a devastating number of attacks due to berserk charge, and re-rolls thanks to the wolf priest to counterbalance the low WS of the swiftclaws) and then run after the assault. That way I get the most out of the swiftclaws' strengths and I can use them to effectively weaken enemy units so that my wolf guard can steamroll through them. Also giving the bikers lots of meltaguns will allow them to penetrate priority armored targets that might bog down my wolf guard. The other advantage to this would be that Khor'sarro would also allow me to field an allied squad of space marine bikers as a troop choice. I don't have to explain the advantages of having a scoring troop unit with T5 that can move 12" per turn with a Jink save and the ability to turbo-boost to wherever they're needed most. :P If anyone has any corrections or advice about anything I just said, PLEASE do feel free to post them- although I've been doing a lot of thinking and planning about my army, I still have yet to play an official game- just skirmishes against my brother who also just started playing. So obviously I'm pretty much talking out of my ass when it comes to strategy since I haven't been able to test much of what I'm discussing myself and most of it just comes from reading and observing. EDIT: After some consideration... would it be unacceptable for me to use my wolf lord as a "Counts as" replacement for Logan Grimnar, keeping the appearance that I like but benefiting from the stats of Logan? Logan's entry says his Axe of Morkai can be used as Powerfist attacks if he chooses, wolf claws and chainfists arent far off from that appearance wise, so I could be sure to tell my opponents before the game starts the the model is logan as far as stats go. I don't know if this is against some unwritten rule of etiquette or generally unnacceptable since I haven't played against others yet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/263467-a-question-about-saga-of-the-hunter/#findComment-3210333 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Brother 92 Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 EDIT: After some consideration... would it be unacceptable for me to use my wolf lord as a "Counts as" replacement for Logan Grimnar, keeping the appearance that I like but benefiting from the stats of Logan? Logan's entry says his Axe of Morkai can be used as Powerfist attacks if he chooses, wolf claws and chainfists arent far off from that appearance wise, so I could be sure to tell my opponents before the game starts the the model is logan as far as stats go. I don't know if this is against some unwritten rule of etiquette or generally unnacceptable since I haven't played against others yet. It wouldn't be unnaceptable in friendly games - although if you were going to a tourny people may (read probably) have problems, so at a tourny it's best to have a model with similar/the same weaponry/armour style at least if not the actual model. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/263467-a-question-about-saga-of-the-hunter/#findComment-3210518 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hymirl Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Lord can't have tda and outflank.Everything else you can do though. Give him runic armor and hide him behind A meat shield. I'm not convinced he can have runic armour, the rules say power armour only and runic armour isn't power armour; it's runic armour... A different item with different rules. (Yes I know the fluff is that it's an improved power armour but as far as rules are concerned its not the same...) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/263467-a-question-about-saga-of-the-hunter/#findComment-3211893 Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain fabian Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 That's my interpretation of the rules as well. It may sound stupid but it is true. Now in a friendly game many things can change.......... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/263467-a-question-about-saga-of-the-hunter/#findComment-3211916 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Lord can't have tda and outflank.Everything else you can do though. Give him runic armor and hide him behind A meat shield. I'm not convinced he can have runic armour, the rules say power armour only and runic armour isn't power armour; it's runic armour... A different item with different rules. (Yes I know the fluff is that it's an improved power armour but as far as rules are concerned its not the same...) Here is how I argued this recently: Look at the entry for Runic Armour. Tell me which part is fluff and which part is rule? How can you tell the difference? Are they written in different font? Are they given some sort of special heading before each section that designates which is which? Are players told elsewhere in the rules which parts of an entry to follow, and which to disregard? These are all rhetorical questions, as I'm pretty sure the answer to all of them is no, the rules designers have not created the codices in such a way. One argument can be made against: and this argument is simply this "Runic Armour cannot be Power Armour, because it costs +20 points and has different stats, as well as a different name". However, an argument can be made for, and that argument is this: "in the codex entry for Runic Armour it states explicitly that it is a type of Power Armour". This statements leads to the logical expression that "not all Power Armour is Runic Armour, but all Runic Armour is Power Armour." This is the position that I've been swayed by. It might not be the one everyone agrees to. Valerian Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/263467-a-question-about-saga-of-the-hunter/#findComment-3211940 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearingtheword Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Lord can't have tda and outflank.Everything else you can do though. Give him runic armor and hide him behind A meat shield. I'm not convinced he can have runic armour, the rules say power armour only and runic armour isn't power armour; it's runic armour... A different item with different rules. (Yes I know the fluff is that it's an improved power armour but as far as rules are concerned its not the same...) I think Nightmare84 was under the impression the Wolf Lord was the one with SoH, which cannot be taken with TDA, when in fact the OP said it would be the Wolf Priest who has it. With both IC's in the unit it's perfectly legal to outflank them as long as it is the WP that has SoH. @OP: Don't forget you can model a Grimnar "Counts-as" and still use his ruleset. If wanting to customise/convert your own model is the issue. :cry: And I agree wholeheartedly with Valerian on that explanation of Runic Armour being Power Armour. ~BtW Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/263467-a-question-about-saga-of-the-hunter/#findComment-3212308 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Lord can't have tda and outflank.Everything else you can do though. Give him runic armor and hide him behind A meat shield. I'm not convinced he can have runic armour, the rules say power armour only and runic armour isn't power armour; it's runic armour... A different item with different rules. (Yes I know the fluff is that it's an improved power armour but as far as rules are concerned its not the same...) I think Nightmare84 was under the impression the Wolf Lord was the one with SoH, which cannot be taken with TDA, when in fact the OP said it would be the Wolf Priest who has it. With both IC's in the unit it's perfectly legal to outflank them as long as it is the WP that has SoH. I think it is also worth noting, since there has been some confusion on this part, that it has to be the Wolf Priest that takes the Saga of the Hunter; it isn't an option for the Wolf Lord. Only Wolf Priests and Wolf Guard Battle Leaders have SotH as one of their Saga choices. Valerian Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/263467-a-question-about-saga-of-the-hunter/#findComment-3212601 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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