cracknell Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 So it costs alot of points but do you guys think its worth it? A fully kitted out Daemon Prince with mace as well as the brand? --Daemon Prince--[295] -Wings -Power Armour -Mace -Brand -DoK Also comes with a LONG list of special rules. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Dump Brand and get a few Mastery Levels IMO, other than that it is fine :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracknell Posted October 16, 2012 Author Share Posted October 16, 2012 would need to dump DoK as well, Possibly DoT with 2 mastery levels instead of brand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Yeah any of the Gods would work. Roll your one on whichever God you choose to be a baby of and then roll the rest on Biomancy and let the fun begin :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarlordEXE Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 People need to read the entry under chaos artefacts more closely. "A model can replace one weapon with one of the following..." the daemon prince has only one close combat weapon to exchange for an artefact so he cannot have the brand and mace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracknell Posted October 16, 2012 Author Share Posted October 16, 2012 New DP. ----Daemon Prince---[315] -DoT -Wings -Power Armour -Mace -2 Mastery Levels --------------------------- Look better ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidoneus Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 There is absolutely no way that is worth over 300pts. It has NO armour save, and only a 5++ inv (re-rolling 1s). Sure, if he's flying you need a 6 to hit him, but I've found that a squad or two of high rate-of-fire guns will pretty consistently ground a FMC, and that's when you bring in the heavy guns to really do the damage. But with T5 and no save, you don't even need heavy guns. A simple bolter wall will do the trick just fine. Heck, my 170pt Heldrake can take him out with a single Vector Strike. The thing about giant killer demi-gods is that they attract lots of fire. I mean, LOTS. So they need to be resilient enough to slog through all those bullets and still make it to combat. The current daemon princes do not have that ability; not at all. For that many points, buy yourself 3 Nurgling bases and a Bloodthirster with Unholy Might. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 makes sense if you take 1 of those , fateweaver and a chaos demons DP with some mauler support and I would never buy mastery level for him . only 2 rolls on biomancy is too low to get all the stuff a MC wants. khorn and no mastery is cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 From a competetive viewpoint, I'll agree with Jeske: Either take a DP from the Daemon-codex, or take a Gretaer Daemon (Bloodthirster/Lord of Change) - it will cost alot less, and probably perform much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracknell Posted October 16, 2012 Author Share Posted October 16, 2012 It does have an Armour save, Its got power Armour 3+ save. Its got power Armour upgrade. But yeah it would pull alot of fire. Possibly make it --Daemon Prince-- [265] -DoK -Wings -PowerArmour -Mace ------ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Sergeant Scarus Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 It does have an Armour save, Its got power Armour 3+ save.Its got power Armour upgrade. But yeah it would pull alot of fire. Possibly make it --Daemon Prince-- [265] -DoK -Wings -PowerArmour -Mace ------ Personally I've had a lot of joy from my Prince: Daemon Prince - Daemon of Tzeentch, Power Armour, Wings, The Black Mace and Gift of Mutation - 275 pts. The Mace+a Daemon Prince is killy enough without Mark of Khorne, being a Daemon of Tzeentch lets you re roll 1's for your saves (which is a lot more helpful in practice than it sounds on paper) and Gift of Mutation is well worth the 10pts in my opinion. You can't suffer a spawndom or Dark Apothesis from Gift of mutation, the worst you'll get is +1BS. You could, however, get eternal warrior, a 2+ save, an extra wound or even (like my last game) multiple gifts. Despite what most people seem to believe, S10 isn't that prevalent in most armies and in some cases (Vindicators for example) being a flyer means they can't even shoot you while you're Zooming through the air. As for force weapons, they are carried by Librarians (who have no hopes of surviving your attacks) or enemies that aren't as fast as you due to flying. I'd give it a try before dismissing it to be fair. You have the speed to make use of available cover and pick your battles - it depends on what's in the rest of your list, but having had great success so far with this codex I think there's way to much knee-jerk theorycrafting going on. My Daemon Prince has been, unequivocally, the MVP of my past 3 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 There is absolutely no way that is worth over 300pts. It has NO armour save, and only a 5++ inv (re-rolling 1s). Sure, if he's flying you need a 6 to hit him, but I've found that a squad or two of high rate-of-fire guns will pretty consistently ground a FMC, and that's when you bring in the heavy guns to really do the damage. But with T5 and no save, you don't even need heavy guns. A simple bolter wall will do the trick just fine. Heck, my 170pt Heldrake can take him out with a single Vector Strike. The thing about giant killer demi-gods is that they attract lots of fire. I mean, LOTS. So they need to be resilient enough to slog through all those bullets and still make it to combat. The current daemon princes do not have that ability; not at all. For that many points, buy yourself 3 Nurgling bases and a Bloodthirster with Unholy Might. lol if you look at the upgrade "armor", it means he bought the 3+ armor save. Slow your roll homie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracknell Posted October 16, 2012 Author Share Posted October 16, 2012 Scarus how did yourself your black mace? I was lucky enough to recently get a massive amount of an ex players spare parts, and some where ships from battle fleet gothic. Which I found using parts of those makes an epic mace that looks beastly and right size for a daemon prince Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lepaca Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Daemon Prince- Daemon of Tzeentch, Power Armour, Wings, The Black Mace and Gift of Mutation - 275 pts. Sounds like a good set-up. I think I will give it a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Sergeant Scarus Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Scarus how did yourself your black mace? I was lucky enough to recently get a massive amount of an ex players spare parts, and some where ships from battle fleet gothic. Which I found using parts of those makes an epic mace that looks beastly and right size for a daemon prince Hah, that's not a bad idea actually - I've got loads of Gothic spare parts lying around. At the moment I'm working on three seperate weapon conversions.... I was making a Sevatar-esque chain-spear, then a daemon-sized version (but that was looking weird...) and now I've been working on a third option, the base of which is an Ogre Tyrant's club - it's suitably massive, but needs to be made a little more ornate I feel - otherwise it just looks like a stick. My main problem is my painted Daemon Prince has a black sword.... and I spent so long painting him... I tend to turn up and say: Would you prefer I use this painted Daemon Prince with a Black Sword counts as Black Mace, or this not finished Daemon Prince with a 'Mace-in-progress'. So far people have chosen the sword (much to my relief - I spent ages painting that prince!) but it's nice to have a spare for WYSIWYG purposes.... or the day one of my champions randomly turns into a daemon prince :jaw: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Sergeant Scarus Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Daemon Prince- Daemon of Tzeentch, Power Armour, Wings, The Black Mace and Gift of Mutation - 275 pts. Sounds like a good set-up. I think I will give it a try. It is really nice so far - and it's not like I haven't faced things that could potentially kill me (Mephiston/Lysander/Termies/Vindicators) but he hasn't died (yet). Treat him like a flying Mephiston and you won't go far wrong - except he has a much better chance vs Terminators. I'm not looking forward to when I play against Tau though, twin-linked Railcannons may be a slight problem :jaw: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 If you want a truly Daemon God then you need a "Mark" (I know it's not formally a mark ;) ) that allows it to take psychic powers. Biomancy on a flying MC is amazing. Personally I wouldn't underestimate the daemon of Nurgle upgrade. It becomes immune to S10 weapon Instant death and equally important it gains the shrouded USR. That means when it is flying an evade enemy fire it gains a 3+ cover save (5+ from the jink rules uplifted to 3+ with shrouded +2 bonus). Not to mention the fact it benefits from a 2+ cover save if it is partially covered by a ruin. Not bad in terms of survivability. ^_^ Just consider that if you want a "Daemon God" you'll pay it a lot of points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Sergeant Scarus Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 If you want a truly Daemon God then you need a "Mark" (I know it's not formally a mark ;) ) that allows it to take psychic powers. Biomancy on a flying MC is amazing. Personally I wouldn't underestimate the daemon of Nurgle upgrade. It becomes immune to S10 weapon Instant death and equally important it gains the shrouded USR. That means when it is flying an evade enemy fire it gains a 3+ cover save (5+ from the jink rules uplifted to 3+ with shrouded +2 bonus). Not to mention the fact it benefits from a 2+ cover save if it is partially covered by a ruin. Not bad in terms of survivability. ^_^ Just consider that if you want a "Daemon God" you'll pay it a lot of points. Daemons of Nurgle don't get +1 toughness though, just like my Daemon of Tzeentch only has a 5++ rather than a 4++. You get shrouded and slow and purposeful and a hatred of Daemons of Tzeentch by being Nurgle. But yes - Shrouded is definitely worth considering. The only problem with being a psychic prince is you need, realistically, 3 Mastery levels to get something useful from Biomancy. 1 is no good, as it has to be your god's power, 2 gives you one roll on biomancy... 3 gets you two which is good - but makes you 75 pts more expensive (my prince would be 350 (!) points). I did have fun with my mates messing around with ''Magnus the Red'' my 410 points 'Fun Prince' though: Daemon of Tzeentch, Mastery level 3, Spell Familiar, Black Mace, Gift of Mutation and Scrolls of Magnus (doesn't replace a weapon so it's legal to take) = 410 pts Not points efficient and as a result not competitive, but quite amusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Deamon Prince, tzeentch, wings, power armour, mastery lv 3, boon, spell familiar, mace. Two Biomancy power and one from Tzeentch:365 If you succeed in surviving with this one in your opponents initial shooting phases it should be able to kill anything in the game easily. Very high initiative, Very considerable number of attacks, AP 2 and a highly considerable ammount of interesting special abillities through spells. Costs a fortune though. But it`s a very fun set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 If you want a truly Daemon God then you need a "Mark" (I know it's not formally a mark ;) ) that allows it to take psychic powers. Biomancy on a flying MC is amazing. Personally I wouldn't underestimate the daemon of Nurgle upgrade. It becomes immune to S10 weapon Instant death and equally important it gains the shrouded USR. That means when it is flying an evade enemy fire it gains a 3+ cover save (5+ from the jink rules uplifted to 3+ with shrouded +2 bonus). Not to mention the fact it benefits from a 2+ cover save if it is partially covered by a ruin. Not bad in terms of survivability. ^_^ Just consider that if you want a "Daemon God" you'll pay it a lot of points. Daemons of Nurgle don't get +1 toughness though, just like my Daemon of Tzeentch only has a 5++ rather than a 4++. You get shrouded and slow and purposeful and a hatred of Daemons of Tzeentch by being Nurgle. But yes - Shrouded is definitely worth considering. The only problem with being a psychic prince is you need, realistically, 3 Mastery levels to get something useful from Biomancy. 1 is no good, as it has to be your god's power, 2 gives you one roll on biomancy... 3 gets you two which is good - but makes you 75 pts more expensive (my prince would be 350 (!) points). I did have fun with my mates messing around with ''Magnus the Red'' my 410 points 'Fun Prince' though: Daemon of Tzeentch, Mastery level 3, Spell Familiar, Black Mace, Gift of Mutation and Scrolls of Magnus (doesn't replace a weapon so it's legal to take) = 410 pts Not points efficient and as a result not competitive, but quite amusing. Sorry about the +1T... I didn't check the Codex before posting and honestly I focused my attention on the other Codex units and only today I start to thinking about DPs ;) Anyway the shrouded bonus still apllies. I agree on the Level 3 Mastery: if you want to have something useful from biomancy you need that level and it will cost. I just checked the Codex, this time ;), and it seem the scroll of magnus gives you an additional random generated power for the rest of the match. Impressive. The S3 AP1 strikes will wound it only on a roll of 6, provided it didn't increased its T with the biomancy power before. 410 pts are a lot of points... did you ever tried it on the table? EDIT: Deamon Prince, tzeentch, wings, power armour, mastery lv 3, boon, spell familiar, mace. Two Biomancy power and one from Tzeentch:365 If you succeed in surviving with this one in your opponents initial shooting phases it should be able to kill anything in the game easily. Very high initiative, Very considerable number of attacks, AP 2 and a highly considerable ammount of interesting special abillities through spells. Costs a fortune though. But it`s a very fun set up. If the battlefield has a good number of scenary you should be able to hide your DP as it flies toward the enemy lines. Anyway just for the records your DP will also wound EVERYTHING on 2+ due to the fleshbane mace ;) Did you even played it? I'm interesting to know how it performs on the battlefield. Just one more question: Any idea on how to model the "Black Mace"? The DP plastic kit comes with a Sword and an Axe but no Mace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Sergeant Scarus Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 If you want a truly Daemon God then you need a "Mark" (I know it's not formally a mark ;) ) that allows it to take psychic powers. Biomancy on a flying MC is amazing. Personally I wouldn't underestimate the daemon of Nurgle upgrade. It becomes immune to S10 weapon Instant death and equally important it gains the shrouded USR. That means when it is flying an evade enemy fire it gains a 3+ cover save (5+ from the jink rules uplifted to 3+ with shrouded +2 bonus). Not to mention the fact it benefits from a 2+ cover save if it is partially covered by a ruin. Not bad in terms of survivability. ;) Just consider that if you want a "Daemon God" you'll pay it a lot of points. Daemons of Nurgle don't get +1 toughness though, just like my Daemon of Tzeentch only has a 5++ rather than a 4++. You get shrouded and slow and purposeful and a hatred of Daemons of Tzeentch by being Nurgle. But yes - Shrouded is definitely worth considering. The only problem with being a psychic prince is you need, realistically, 3 Mastery levels to get something useful from Biomancy. 1 is no good, as it has to be your god's power, 2 gives you one roll on biomancy... 3 gets you two which is good - but makes you 75 pts more expensive (my prince would be 350 (!) points). I did have fun with my mates messing around with ''Magnus the Red'' my 410 points 'Fun Prince' though: Daemon of Tzeentch, Mastery level 3, Spell Familiar, Black Mace, Gift of Mutation and Scrolls of Magnus (doesn't replace a weapon so it's legal to take) = 410 pts Not points efficient and as a result not competitive, but quite amusing. Sorry about the +1T... I didn't check the Codex before posting and honestly I focused my attention on the other Codex units and only today I start to thinking about DPs ;) Anyway the shrouded bonus still apllies. I agree on the Level 3 Mastery: if you want to have something useful from biomancy you need that level and it will cost. I just checked the Codex, this time ;), and it seem the scroll of magnus gives you an additional random generated power for the rest of the match. Impressive. The S3 AP1 strikes will wound it only on a roll of 6, provided it didn't increased its T with the biomancy power before. 410 pts are a lot of points... did you ever ttied it on the table? Yeah - you can (theoretically) end the match with 10 psychic powers ^_^ - very funny and, as you say, you're not TOO likely to suffer from the S3 hit given high toughness and a 5++ (re-roll 1's) save. I've only used him once, in a friendly game where it was just him vs a variety of enemy things, I'd like to try him in a proper game - despite his hefty price tag. The obvious problem is that he could be shut down pretty hard by runes of warding/Runestaves, and the version Iron Sage posted is the more cost effective version. I think, ultimately, he'd be a win BIG lose BIG kind of character - armies either have the tools to take him out easily or he goes ''S9 T9 Eternal Warrior, It Will Not Die'' and just rolls over them with the Black Mace ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Yeah - you can (theoretically) end the match with 10 psychic powers ;) - very funny and, as you say, you're not TOO likely to suffer from the S3 hit given high toughness and a 5++ (re-roll 1's) save. I've only used him once, in a friendly game where it was just him vs a variety of enemy things, I'd like to try him in a proper game - despite his hefty price tag. The obvious problem is that he could be shut down pretty hard by runes of warding/Runestaves, and the version Iron Sage posted is the more cost effective version. I think, ultimately, he'd be a win BIG lose BIG kind of character - armies either have the tools to take him out easily or he goes ''S9 T9 Eternal Warrior, It Will Not Die'' and just rolls over them with the Black Mace ;) Wouldn't be possible for the DP to fly towards those runes equiped models and kill them before its mind blows up by rolling 3d6 for each psychic power it casts? The spell familar should help, though. However Space Wolves Rune Pristies nullifying your powers can be countered only by killing them. Reading the Boon Table (I think the gift of mutation is a wise investment here) you have several interesting upgrades for it: Eternal Warrior: no need to say more ;) +1 T: it becomes immune to S10 Instant death +1 wounds: you just get a 5 wounds MC +1 Armour Save: up to a potential 2+ Reroll armour saves: MoT allows you only to reroll 1s Feel no Pain Etc... Just to mention few of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Sergeant Scarus Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Yeah - you can (theoretically) end the match with 10 psychic powers :P - very funny and, as you say, you're not TOO likely to suffer from the S3 hit given high toughness and a 5++ (re-roll 1's) save. I've only used him once, in a friendly game where it was just him vs a variety of enemy things, I'd like to try him in a proper game - despite his hefty price tag. The obvious problem is that he could be shut down pretty hard by runes of warding/Runestaves, and the version Iron Sage posted is the more cost effective version. I think, ultimately, he'd be a win BIG lose BIG kind of character - armies either have the tools to take him out easily or he goes ''S9 T9 Eternal Warrior, It Will Not Die'' and just rolls over them with the Black Mace ;) Wouldn't be possible for the DP to fly towards those runes equiped models and kill them before its mind blows up by rolling 3d6 for each psychic power it casts? The spell familar should help, though. However Space Wolves Rune Pristies nullifying your powers can be countered only by killing them. Reading the Boon Table (I think the gift of mutation is a wise investment here) you have several interesting upgrades for it: Eternal Warrior: no need to say more ;) +1 T: it becomes immune to S10 Instant death +1 wounds: you just get a 5 wounds MC +1 Armour Save: up to a potential 2+ Reroll armour saves: MoT allows you only to reroll 1s Feel no Pain Etc... Just to mention few of them. Oh yeah, for sure - I can't imagine ever taking a Prince without gift! Getting a 2+ save and re-rolling 1's was too much fun ;) But yeah, every time I roll I'm hoping for Eternal Warrior ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Just one more question: Any idea on how to model the "Black Mace"? The DP plastic kit comes with a Sword and an Axe but no Mace. Off the top of my head, start with the axe, clip off the axe head, and trim off the front of the axe 'blade'. Make some greenstuff and using the base of the skull as a guide, bulk out the skull shape until its a desired size and re-pin to the axe haft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracknell Posted October 16, 2012 Author Share Posted October 16, 2012 Ill upload a picture of my mace wip tomorrow. I was thinking of painting it white as a joke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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