3 weapons on a chaos lord

[Hatefires]

So I have been looking for a way to put 3 weapons on a Chaos lord and was giving up hope and then it dawned on me because I never use bikes…

 

Chaos Bikes: “…A Chaos Bike is fitted with a single Twin-linked Boltgun”

 

When we look at the stipulations of replacing weapons:

 

Chaos Artifacts “…A model can replace one weapon with one of the following.”

 

Mele Weapons: “A model can replace his bolt pistol and/or close combat weapon with one of the following:”

 

So technically the Chaos Lord on a bike is bolt pistol, close combat weapon, and twin linked bolter, 3 weapons. So I could kit out a Slaanesh chaos lord with lightening claw, powerfist, and Skalathrax or if I wanted to kit out a khorne lord with Axe of blind fury, The Black mace and Skalathrax. The chaos lords would also have the added benefit of not being instant deathed by Str 8 weapons, and the Slaaneshi lord would still get the extra attack for having both Specialist weapons.

 

Is this legal?

[Lord_Caerolion]

The twin-linked Boltgun is part of the bike, not a weapon wielded by the Chaos Lord. It can't be swapped.

[Agerjag]

First off you can only get one thing off the Artifacts list per HQ that can take from it. Also you can only have 1 of each type per army. It says you may replace ONE with ONE. You cannot do this multiple times.

 

Melee Weapons is worded to not allow you to swap anything but your BP and CCW.

The bike itself is a piece of your wargear not its bolters. Its a whole package and cannot be traded out and does not count as a weapon.

If that was possible it would be under bike wargear and say something along the lines "You can replace the bikes twin linked bolter with...."

[Hatefires]

First off you can only get one thing off the Artifacts list per HQ that can take from it. Also you can only have 1 of each type per army. It says you may replace ONE with ONE. You cannot do this multiple times.

 

Melee Weapons is worded to not allow you to swap anything but your BP and CCW.

The bike itself is a piece of your wargear not its bolters. Its a whole package and cannot be traded out and does not count as a weapon.

If that was possible it would be under bike wargear and say something along the lines "You can replace the bikes twin linked bolter with...."

 

Where is the quote that says you can only take one artifact per hq?

 

I said “or” meaning I would take a shlaanesh lord “or” a khorne lord. I am using Huron as my warlord as infiltrate is too good to give up.

 

A chaos bike does not change the wargear it changes the unit type for a chaos Lord. Pg 66 Chaos Codex

 

Also under our fast attack choice for bikes, which is classified as wargear for bikes, "Up to two chaos bikers may replace their close combat weapon or their bikes twinlinked boltgun with one of the following:"

[Agerjag]

The wargear section says you can replace ONE with ONE. It does not say you can replace both weapons or multiple weapons. ONE with ONE is pretty clear (im referring to the artifacts section as the melee weapons does state you can do both via an "and" statement). Also you cannot use the chaos bikers listing to replace your lords weapons thats lunacy. A bike when bought in the wargear section is a piece of wargear. Its bolter can NEVER be replaced or it would state something along those lines.

[Hatefires]

I am no English major but if I have 2/3 weapons I do not see why I cannot replace 2/3 of those weapons for one of these?

 

Pg 91 “A model can replace one weapon with one of the following. Only one of each may be taken per army”

 

There is no stipulation this cannot be done as many times as your character satisfies the “one weapon” statement.

 

And the distinction made in the melee weapons section is to tell you, you can replace bolt pistol or close combat weapon, meaning you can’t replace force weapons and such.

 

Again a chaos bike is equipped with a twin linked-bolter, this satisfies “one weapon” statement.

 

Or are you saying the twin-linked bolter on a chaos bike is not weapon?

[greatcrusade08]

i dunno man, thats a really bad argument to make.. the bikes weapons are not part of the lords wargear, so he cant trade them.

[jimmimellows]

Not really sure what you want people to say. You asked for clarification, have been given a quote from the rulebook which satisfies that argument. Now it just seems like your not happy with that answer and are trying to loophole around that part of the rule to get a result you want. Why do you need 3 weapons exactly?

[Agerjag]

Also the melee weapons uses an "and" statement to show that you can trade both your pistol and your CCW. Its very specific, so when it says you can replace ONE weapon with One of the following, thats all you can do. They would have to errata it in order for you to take the brand and the axe.

[Jacinda]

I am no English major but if I have 2/3 weapons I do not see why I cannot replace 2/3 of those weapons for one of these?

 

Pg 91 “A model can replace one weapon with one of the following. Only one of each may be taken per army”

 

There is no stipulation this cannot be done as many times as your character satisfies the “one weapon” statement.

 

And the distinction made in the melee weapons section is to tell you, you can replace bolt pistol or close combat weapon, meaning you can’t replace force weapons and such.

 

Again a chaos bike is equipped with a twin linked-bolter, this satisfies “one weapon” statement.

 

Or are you saying the twin-linked bolter on a chaos bike is not weapon?

Do you see where it says ONE? That is where it says you can do it ONE time.

 

The twin-linked bolter on the bike may be a weapon, but it is not the lord's weapon. It is the bike's weapon.

 

 

Is this legal?

No.

[Hatefires]

How are they not a part of the Chaos lords wargear? The chaos bike is even listed under “Special Issue Wargear” that the lord is allowed to purchase.

Also in response to Angerjag, for a Chaos Lord:

 

“Options: May take ITEMS from the Melee weapons, Ranged Weapons, Chaos Rewards, Special Issue Wargear and/ or Chaos Artefacts Sections of the wargear" list.

 

In this statement the word “Items” and “ Artefacts” are both plural

[Hatefires]

Do you see where it says ONE? That is where it says you can do it ONE time.

 

Then we can never get twin lightning claws by that logic...

[Brother RedAxe]

I don't see why you would want to change out the combi bolter on the bike for a lord. 2 ccw on foot or a steed removes the ability to have a decent ranged attack the bolter on the bike will even give your lord half a chance to hit flyers. Also having the option to get extra attacks by taking lightning claw and power fist gives infantry and tank busting ability. saddle him up with MOS and a squad of bikers with the icon and it is very difficult to take out.

[Iron Sage]

Do you see where it says ONE? That is where it says you can do it ONE time.

 

Then we can never get twin lightning claws by that logic...

 

Nonsense, thats a seperate option and cannot be comparable.

 

Jacinda is spot on.

[Vhalyar]

I don't see why you would want to change out the combi bolter on the bike for a lord. 2 ccw on foot or a steed removes the ability to have a decent ranged attack the bolter on the bike will even give your lord half a chance to hit flyers. Also having the option to get extra attacks by taking lightning claw and power fist gives infantry and tank busting ability. saddle him up with MOS and a squad of bikers with the icon and it is very difficult to take out.

Because it lets you take the Brand on top of two CCW.

[Chaos Lord Shamrockius]

To paraphrase, I do feel this thread is looking for loopholes in all the wrong places... Bike war gear is not carried by The Lord/sorcerer ergo, I'd imagine it cannot be swapped for anything that it isn't able to under the bike war gear section. As for everything else, it's clearly written what you can swap with what, including what you have to give up to get twin claws. I don't know what else there is to say.

[Hatefires]

On page 91 6th ed Chaos codex: The trouble is if you are using the “One” in the melee weapons section the same way as you are using the second wording of “One” in the Chaos Artefacts section you have this conundrum:

 

Deciding I want to use the “and” statement rather than the or statement for melee weapons I end up replacing both my close combat weapon along with my bolt pistol for one lightning claw, and have nothing else to show for it? Huh?

[Agerjag]

The melee weapons section while worded somewhat poorly is implying (though they shorten it to be concise) that you can trade your BP for ONE and/or your CCW for One. This has been talked about in a myriad of threads already as some people have taken its meaning to be you can trade both for one, which is obviously a terrible idea as then youd be giving up a weapon for nothing. Unless otherwise stated (like the melee weapons section) you cannot take the same thing twice off of any list. Thats like saying you follow you can take one of EACH to mean you can take one of each and then just one of each again because there is nothing saying you cant take that list mutliple times.... Of course there is nothing Specifically stating that you cant make a list and give all your guys free 1+ invuls for no points with rerolls. We could go by that logic, or we can just follow the rules as written.

[Chaos Lord Shamrockius]

Now you're just taking things t an extreme and not reading what is actually there. There is clearly a drop down menu (iPad version) that tells you that you can take one claw in exchange for your melee weapon, then in the list of ranged weapons there is the option to take a second claw.

Please stop looking for loopholes that just aren't there. Failing this, why don't you take a list with every single artefact and every single mount AND a jump pack on your Lord.

[Payce]

Hatefires: Interpret the rules as you wish; if it get's FAQ'd at some point, be prepared to re-model your HQ - until then, rest assured that most players will see your argument as WAAC banter.

 

Jacinda: 100% spot on.

[Hatefires]

Two things we must agree upon:

 

1)The word “One” under the Melee weapons is the same as Both “one” in Chaos Artifacts then I can take a Chaos Artefact for every weapon my Chaos lord has.

 

2)Chaos Bike is a piece of wargear that changes the unit type just like a demonic steed, saying the twin linked bolter is not apart of the chaos lords weapons is like saying all those stats like armor save or +1 toughness are not apart of the lord but they are a part of the model. We just cant swap initative or toughness for anything.

 

 

Thing, unit type= infantry

 

Thing purchases wargear: bike, unit type changes to “Bike”

Thing model is unit type: bike, our codex= chaos, Unit type=Chaos Bike

 

“ A Chaos Bike is fitted with a twin linked boltgun”. Pg 66

 

twin linked boltgun= weapon=True

 

Therefore since Thing is unit type Bike and it is from our codex therefore Thing unit type= Chaos Bike and is further allowed to purchase wargear because the Thing Unit Name =Chaos Lord

 

Unit name and Unit Type are different but allow more options, its just this piece of wargear allows the unit type to carry and extra weapon while unit type is allowing it to purchase upgrades. All the while it is still One in the same.

 

There for Unit Name: Chaos Lord has and extra weapon because Unit Type=Chaos Bike.

 

The melee weapons section while worded somewhat poorly is implying (though they shorten it to be concise) that you can trade your BP for ONE and/or your CCW for One. This has been talked about in a myriad of threads already as some people have taken its meaning to be you can trade both for one, which is obviously a terrible idea as then youd be giving up a weapon for nothing.

I agree and think this is not what the rules are meant to convey, but that you can purchase one for one.

 

Unless otherwise stated (like the melee weapons section) you cannot take the same thing twice off of any list. Thats like saying you follow you can take one of EACH to mean you can take one of each and then just one of each again because there is nothing saying you cant take that list mutliple times....

 

I think this is what they intended, take for instance the Ranged Wargear section, if you purchased Combi-melta for your chaos lords Close combat weapon you would hurt your self in close combat. Also if you purchase multiple weapons, go ahead I will play your army with a chaos lord that bought 160 combi-meltas any day, you can only shoot one per shooting phase and you might have enough points for two bone stock cultists squads in a 2000 point army but you still only have 2 combi-meltas .

 

If you follow the logic of the Melee Weapons section and that one of your weapons can be replaced for one of these weapons on a weapon by weapon basis per character then we do not have the conundrum of looking at one rule on page 91 different than all of the other rules which seems more logical imho.

 

Of course there is nothing Specifically stating that you cant make a list and give all your guys free 1+ invuls for no points with rerolls. We could go by that logic, or we can just follow the rules as written.

 

Let’s keep this objective and professional…and not talk about making up rules, as I understand this is difficult to convey because everyone is thinking of a chaos lord riding a motorcycle, when it is actually changing the unit type.

[Agerjag]

Two things we must agree upon:

 

1)The word “One” under the Melee weapons is the same as Both “one” in Chaos Artifacts then I can take a Chaos Artefact for every weapon my Chaos lord has.

 

2)Chaos Bike is a piece of wargear that changes the unit type just like a demonic steed, saying the twin linked bolter is not apart of the chaos lords weapons is like saying all those stats like armor save or +1 toughness are not apart of the lord but they are a part of the model. We just cant swap initative or toughness for anything.

 

 

Thing, unit type= infantry

 

Thing purchases wargear: bike, unit type changes to “Bike”

Thing model is unit type: bike, our codex= chaos, Unit type=Chaos Bike

 

“ A Chaos Bike is fitted with a twin linked boltgun”. Pg 66

 

twin linked boltgun= weapon=True

 

Therefore since Thing is unit type Bike and it is from our codex therefore Thing unit type= Chaos Bike and is further allowed to purchase wargear because the Thing Unit Name =Chaos Lord

 

Unit name and Unit Type are different but allow more options, its just this piece of wargear allows the unit type to carry and extra weapon while unit type is allowing it to purchase upgrades. All the while it is still One in the same.

 

There for Unit Name: Chaos Lord has and extra weapon because Unit Type=Chaos Bike.

 

The melee weapons section while worded somewhat poorly is implying (though they shorten it to be concise) that you can trade your BP for ONE and/or your CCW for One. This has been talked about in a myriad of threads already as some people have taken its meaning to be you can trade both for one, which is obviously a terrible idea as then youd be giving up a weapon for nothing.

I agree and think this is not what the rules are meant to convey, but that you can purchase one for one.

 

Unless otherwise stated (like the melee weapons section) you cannot take the same thing twice off of any list. Thats like saying you follow you can take one of EACH to mean you can take one of each and then just one of each again because there is nothing saying you cant take that list mutliple times....

 

I think this is what they intended, take for instance the Ranged Wargear section, if you purchased Combi-melta for your chaos lords Close combat weapon you would hurt your self in close combat. Also if you purchase multiple weapons, go ahead I will play your army with a chaos lord that bought 160 combi-meltas any day, you can only shoot one per shooting phase and you might have enough points for two bone stock cultists squads in a 2000 point army but you still only have 2 combi-meltas .

 

If you follow the logic of the Melee Weapons section and that one of your weapons can be replaced for one of these weapons on a weapon by weapon basis per character then we do not have the conundrum of looking at one rule on page 91 different than all of the other rules which seems more logical imho.

 

Of course there is nothing Specifically stating that you cant make a list and give all your guys free 1+ invuls for no points with rerolls. We could go by that logic, or we can just follow the rules as written.

 

Let’s keep this objective and professional…and not talk about making up rules, as I understand this is difficult to convey because everyone is thinking of a chaos lord riding a motorcycle, when it is actually changing the unit type.

 

I swear this whole post is strait up trolling. I would pay money to see this before a tournament judge.

 

Artifacts section has ONE in it twice and the melee weapons just implies that you can trade either your CCW and/or you BP for things on that list.

 

Changing the unit type to bike makes it a unit type bike in the Main Rulebook not unit type chaos bike, as there is no such unit type. Chaos bikes themselves are of type bike from the main rulebook as well.

 

While a chaos is equipped with a bike the bolters do not fall under his weapons. Only the bike is technically in his wargear. There is no option for his wargear to swap weapons if you want to take it that far.

[Agerjag]

whoops double post.

[jimmimellows]

@hatefires

 

Are you serious, or just a bit mental? The fact you have the cheek to bang on about objectivity and professionalism when you've tried .........and successfully failed to convince anyone that your attempts to exploit this wording of what SHOULD be a fairly simple rule are "legit" is somewhat amusing.

You blatantly stirred things up when you didn't like people's answer to a pointless post so you can't really start to get high and mighty.

 

People who try to bend rules........ then spend hours trying to opinion bully people into agreeing with flawed logic are the reason I quit this game the first time.

 

I suspect you'll probably spend another hour counter arguing this response.

[Spinsanity]

Wow, it is quite surprising to see how some people are trying to (apparently, and I admit this is just my opinion) bend the rules...

 

Chaos Artefacts : A model can replace one weapon with one of the following...

Once again, you can replace ONE weapon, not any weapon. One = one. Two != one.

 

To give another example that is worded in a similar way :

One model in the unit may purchase one of the following Chaos Icons...

Considering the arguments that have been presented by others here, should I be allowed to take 2 icons in a single unit (Vengeance + one other)? The book says ONE model can take an icon, so only one can. The same restriction applies to the Chaos Artifacts; each character can take only a single artifact, not two+.

 

Ranged Weapons : A model can replace one weapon with one of the following...

This time it says 'one weapon'. Not any weapon. One. You can't take two plasma pistols (but you can have BP + PP if you replace your CCW).

 

+ EDIT :

 

While we're at it, in regards to the Bike's weapons...

 

Looking at pages 66 and 67 :

Chaos Bike : Models with a Chaos Bike change their unit type...

- then : A Chaos bike is fitted with a single twin-linked boltgun.

(Note here the distinction between model and bike. The bike has the gun, not the model)

Mechatendrils : Mechatendrils give the wearer...

Jump pack : Models equipped with jump pack have...

Combat familiar : A model with a combat familiar makes...

Juggernaut of Khorne : The model receives...

Disc of Tzeentch : The model receives...

 

Of course, if you insist on arguing differently, feel free to oblige. Don't go moaning when you obviously have to remodel your Lord once this is FAQed.