Julgolax Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I think, after 6 years of absence from the hobby and nearly 8 years of searching for a name, theme, and chapter identity for my own custom force, I think I've found what I want for my loyal space marine defenders. Please respect my choices but constructive criticism and helpful improvements/advice are very welcome. Here's what I've come up with so far. I used the DIY guide from this site to create this WIP Index Astartes article. Chapter Name: Astral Wardens Founding: 26th Primarch: Rogal Dorn Host Chapter: Black Templars Homeworld: Avennor Fortress-monastery: Lockholm Chapter Master: Jacob Lonan, a.k.a. Grand Warden Heraldry: Insignia: Origins: The Astral Wardens were formed as one of the last chapters of astartes formed during the 26th Founding, the latest founding to date. The chapter was born on the world Avennor, a planet located in a prime tactical location on the eastern edge of the Maelstrom. The High Lords of Terra decreed that the Maelstrom had become a great enough threat to Imperial security that a chapter of the Emperor's finest warriors should be stationed nearby to patrol the borders of this miniature Eye of Terror. Being a young chapter, the responsibility placed upon the up and coming warriors was to some, too great for them but the chapter has proven it's worth in it's sacred task. The chapter was hosted in it's infancy by the Black Templars, a rare "Genesis Crusade" was undertaken by Castellan Hable, Chaplain Tellius, Techpriest Vias and 5 Sword Brethren. These great warriors selected, trained and blessed one hundred men from Avennor's native people who became the chapter's first company. The chapter has since grown to nearly 8 companies strong and continues to strengthen. Homeworld: The Astral Wardens' homeworld is a planet called Avennor. This world orbits a home star 450 light-years to the galactic north of the Maelstrom spacial anomaly and has become a relatively peaceful place in a galaxy of darkness and conflict. The planet's native human population live in a perpetual state of pre-industrial modernization which provides a unique mindset for the chapter to select it's recruits. The chapter draws it's neophytes from Avennor's native guards, a cast of protectors known as Wardens of the many spread out villages and cities across the planet's surface. The planet's populace live in ignorance of the Astartes and though Imperial rule is firmly embedded in the populace, the native culture and traditions are maintained from generation to generation and has shaped the very culture of the chapter as well. The chapter's recruits are few and far between because their recruitment regimen follows every protocol and they have chosen not to lax on a single one. The chapter's 10'th company is relatively small compared to other senior chapters but this is due to the chapter's stringent training practices and the methods of using their scouts. Avennor is a temperate world but every season is relatively mild and makes for a consistent environment for life to prosper but the people are still not without their bandits, criminals, and crude gangs. The darker side of Avennor is not a concern to the chapter because such conflicts among the populace provides a perfect grounds for recruitment from the Wardens in each town and city. Thought the chapter adheres to the Codex Astartes, the native Wardens are naturally bonded together by common duty and this transitions perfectly into the chapter's Astartes indoctrination. The planet has yet to be attacked by a significant force of xenos or heretics but the Astral Wardens have taken great care in preparing themselves for the inevitable strike of desperation or vengeance from enemy forces. The chapter maintains a constant vigil of not only the Maelstrom but it was decreed by the chapter master that Avennor be guarded by no less than 4 of the chapter's strike cruisers and a garrison of no less than 5 regiments of chapter serfs to safeguard the fortress-monastery. Lockholm itself was constructed out of the largest island on the planet. The fortress strongly resembles a stockade but on a much grander scale. The chapter's Apothicarion, Librarium, Reclusiam, Hall of Honors, and the Grand Warden's chambers are all situated above ground while the chapter's Armory is located below ground in a vast bunker that includes a small forging facility to upkeep the chapter's growing arsenal of equipment and vehicles. Combat Doctrine: The Astral Wardens maintain a flexible approach to warfare as they are to encounter enemies of all kinds around the deadly Maelstrom. The chapter's role as protector and warden of their homeworld and the Maelstrom respectively has ingrained a defensive preference to their tactics however. The Chapter has grown into the practice of leaving defensive garrisons and listening posts on the worlds they aid. The chapter inherited this practice from their parent chapter the Black Templars and have augmented the strategy to fit their patrol pattern. I had more but I felt this was a good point to stop considering I started having trouble in the Combat Doctrine section and the sections thereafter also began to give me writer's block. I have yet to come up with a color scheme to fit the nature of the chapter but I have come up with a chapter insignia. I was inspired by the "Storm" Wardens chapter to use a big bold shield backround to my insignia with a 5 pointed star on top of it. I would like some proofreading of what I have developed for some constructive feedback and corrections to lore in addition to color scheme ideas. Edit: This is just one of the 3 or 4 of my most favorite conceptual color schemes. It looks both striking and simple yet something that isn't so unique that it feels out of place, (looking at you Minotaurs chapter). The basic colors here are midnight blue highlighting mordian blue and the purest white I can find. The helmet would have a white vertical helmet strike, there just wasn't an option in the painter to add it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/263535-assist-me-brothers-diy-loyalist-chapter/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erasmus of Baal Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I think, after 6 years of absence from the hobby and nearly 8 years of searching for a name, theme, and chapter identity for my own custom force, I think I've found what I want for my loyal space marine defenders. Please respect my choices but constructive criticism and helpful improvements/advice are very welcome. Welcome back! We're glad to have you. As far as the rest goes, well, I'm going through your IA piece by piece and while I do aim for constructive criticism, "harsh" is the best word to describe my editing habits. ;) I used the DIY guide from this site to create this WIP Index Astartes article. Since you're still looking at DIY guides, I suggest giving the Octaguide a read. It's excellent. Chapter Name: Astral WardensFounding: 26th Primarch: Rogal Dorn Host Chapter: Black Templars Homeworld: Avennor Fortress-monastery: Lockholm Chapter Master: Jacob Lonan, a.k.a. Grand Warden Two issues here: Black Templars and Chapter Master. First off, the Black Templars are not terribly popular with the High Lords of Terra; they really stick out in an IA and tend to cause fluff problems. It really is easier (and, in my experience, makes for a better IA) to just disregard that completely (use the Crimson or Imperial Fists instead if you insist on being Dornian) and give them fluffy reasons why they're similar in playstyle if you're doing it for rulebook reasons. Otherwaise, just make them similar fluffwise and you have no issue. Second, Chapter positions don't have to be renamed. It's not a big problem, but consider carefully your reasons for doing so. Origins: ... The High Lords of Terra decreed that the Maelstrom had become a great enough threat to Imperial security that a chapter of the Emperor's finest warriors should be stationed nearby to patrol the borders of this miniature Eye of Terror. Maelstrom is already well-guarded. For evidence, check out just how many Chapters responded rapidly to the Badab War. As you pointed out yourself, it is a "miniature" Eye of Terror, and has considerably less need to be guarded, especially since the remains of the Red Corsairs are not a major threat to Imperial stability. There's even already a Chapter on the Maelstrom's doorstep: the White Scars. The chapter was hosted in it's infancy ... companies strong and continues to strengthen. Unless you have precedents for this, it is ridiculous and you should cut it completely. (I apologize for the harshness, but there really isn't a good way to be constructive when destruction is the best solution.) Alternatively, just disregard the whole idea of it being a whole Chapter and just make it one Crusade of Black Templars. Homeworld: The Astral Wardens' homeworld ...stringent training practices and the methods of using their scouts. Most of this is true for every Astartes Chapter. You have some useful details in here, particularly those related to the planet's industrialization and the Wardens, but cut down on the rest to give these room. Avennor is a temperate world but every ... growing arsenal of equipment and vehicles. This section has a lot of pointless details, especially those concerning the planet's guard status (it has a Chapter of Space Marines situated there, making it pretty well-guarded already) and the Fortress-Monastery's structure (just not needed in the IA unless it somehow reflects the Chapter's nature). Combat Doctrine: The Astral Wardens maintain a flexible approach to warfare as they are to encounter enemies of all kinds around the deadly Maelstrom. No, they don't. They face primarily (indeed, almost solely) renegade Space Marines and possibly summoned Daemons. They keep a flexible approach to warfare because even the Black Templars have to at least make it look like they follow the Codex Astartes. The chapter's role as protector and warden of their homeworld and the Maelstrom respectively has ingrained a defensive preference to their tactics however. The Chapter has grown into the practice of leaving defensive garrisons and listening posts on the worlds they aid. The chapter inherited this practice from their parent chapter the Black Templars and have augmented the strategy to fit their patrol pattern. lolwut? The Black Templars are know for their aggressive and forward tactics featuring Land Raiders, close-combat specialist Space Marines, and I-forget-what-the-Scout-alternative-is-called-s charging forth at maximum speed. You sound more like Crimson Fist successors than Black Templar successors. I had more but I felt this was a good point to stop considering I started having trouble in the Combat Doctrine section and the sections thereafter also began to give me writer's block. It's a good point to stop and get C&C, too, regardless of how well or poorly the IA is looking at the time. I was inspired by the "Storm" Wardens chapter to use a big bold shield backround to my insignia with a 5 pointed star on top of it. Why? What does the symbol represent about the Chapter? Remember that it is your icon, your grand symbol that stands for everything about you, the only thing aside from your color scheme, power armor, and a boltgun that will be standard on every single one of your newly-indoctrinated Marines. Is this really the symbol that stands for your Chapter? Overall, you've got some decent ideas going here (especially this defender subtheme, I really love that) that need to get played up, and it looks like you're trying to grab too much attention from the start between coming from the Black Templars and being posted at the Maelstrom. I suggest cutting down on those last two things and focusing on all the interesting details that have crept in between the lines. There really are some interesting details - most notably, I would love to see these "wardens" on the planet played up some along with the Chapter's defender theme - but some large plot points that just make your Chapter look silly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/263535-assist-me-brothers-diy-loyalist-chapter/#findComment-3210935 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacobius Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 The colour scheme is very similar to that of my IA so I must agree that it looks good :) As for the rest... Some questions that popped into my head while reading (bearing in mind that the things I'm interested in some others may consider pointless detail) You mention that the people's culture greatly influenced the demeanor of your chapter. How? What is the culture like? One thing that I'm not sure about but I'm currently working on a little short story to help explain in my own IA is that recruits are around about twelve years old, which, if your populace don't know about the recruiting but their kids keep disappearing..? I agree with a lot of points raised above, some bits are too detailed others need some fleshing out. I think your symbol makes perfect sense, astral wardens, shield and star. Many of the canon chapter symbols are merely pictorial representations of the chapter name (crimson fists, blood ravens, space wolves etc.) Lastly the OCD goblin inside me says that caste in the sense of a social group is spelled with an e :) -J- Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/263535-assist-me-brothers-diy-loyalist-chapter/#findComment-3211104 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julgolax Posted October 17, 2012 Author Share Posted October 17, 2012 Welcome back! We're glad to have you. As far as the rest goes, well, I'm going through your IA piece by piece and while I do aim for constructive criticism, "harsh" is the best word to describe my editing habits. ;) You weren't kidding... Since you're still looking at DIY guides, I suggest giving the Octaguide a read. It's excellent. If I can find it I'll take a good look at it. Two issues here: Black Templars and Chapter Master. First off, the Black Templars are not terribly popular with the High Lords of Terra; they really stick out in an IA and tend to cause fluff problems. It really is easier (and, in my experience, makes for a better IA) to just disregard that completely (use the Crimson or Imperial Fists instead if you insist on being Dornian) and give them fluffy reasons why they're similar in playstyle if you're doing it for rulebook reasons. Otherwaise, just make them similar fluffwise and you have no issue. Second, Chapter positions don't have to be renamed. It's not a big problem, but consider carefully your reasons for doing so. Just because the High Lords dislike a certain chapter doesn't mean the geneseed sample is any different than the primogenitor's. Also, the Black Templars have a known surplus of forces spread throughout the galaxy, I'm sure they can be called to oversee the birth of a new chapter of brothers... there are few more honorable undertakings. As for the Chapter Master's title, I suppose it doesn't need renaming but I personally enjoy the idea of it. Maelstrom is already well-guarded. For evidence, check out just how many Chapters responded rapidly to the Badab War. As you pointed out yourself, it is a "miniature" Eye of Terror, and has considerably less need to be guarded, especially since the remains of the Red Corsairs are not a major threat to Imperial stability. There's even already a Chapter on the Maelstrom's doorstep: the White Scars. The Badab War was a major calling to action because of a major event, now that it's over the High Lords wanted a chapter, much like the Astartes Praeses to guard the extremities of the Maelstrom so I created a chapter dedicated to just that cause. And in addition to Chaos, they will no doubt face a plethora of xenos. I don't know where you get the idea that the remains of the Red Corsairs are not a major threat to Imperial stability, it says in the codex itself they are peerless raiders and pirates, prowling Imperial shipping lanes throughout the region, and they are just one of several threats that linger within and around the Maelstrom. Xenos as well can take refuge on worlds near the Maelstrom. Unless you have precedents for this, it is ridiculous and you should cut it completely. (I apologize for the harshness, but there really isn't a good way to be constructive when destruction is the best solution.) Alternatively, just disregard the whole idea of it being a whole Chapter and just make it one Crusade of Black Templars. I don't understand why this is so difficult for you to understand. It's an endeavor undertaken by a Castellan, Chaplain, Tech Priest, (forgot the Apothicary) and 5 Sword Brethren to train, guide, evaluate and basically nurse the fledgling chapter into existence. I read over the DIY guide and this makes perfect sense, I simply gave it the name of "Genesis Crusade". Most of this is true for every Astartes Chapter. You have some useful details in here, particularly those related to the planet's industrialization and the Wardens, but cut down on the rest to give these room. There really isn't much else in there that sounds like imprudent information, I mean I basically went about answering the questions suggested in the DIY article. I basically copied and pasted that into a word document and answered the question in detail, and deleted each question I answered. If you could, I'd rather you tell me things I could improve upon rather than just tell me to cut down on this and that BECAUSE I just followed the questions asked in the article. This section has a lot of pointless details, especially those concerning the planet's guard status (it has a Chapter of Space Marines situated there, making it pretty well-guarded already) and the Fortress-Monastery's structure (just not needed in the IA unless it somehow reflects the Chapter's nature). I can admit to putting in a few extra details about the planet that I had in mind which aren't necessary, I'll give you that, but again the questions in the DIY article did ask to describe the planet in detail and how the native people relate to the chapter. I tried my best to go into detail about that, and I would rather you tell me what I could add or points that I explained ineffectively. lolwut? The Black Templars are know for their aggressive and forward tactics featuring Land Raiders, close-combat specialist Space Marines, and I-forget-what-the-Scout-alternative-is-called-s charging forth at maximum speed. You sound more like Crimson Fist successors than Black Templar successors. The Black Templars are one of the very few chapters, if the only one, to leave chapter keeps on worlds they have saved, conquered, or are tactically beneficial. I took this to the extreme since they guard the Maelstrom, setting up garrisoned forts and listening posts on worlds and moons that would provide bases of operation to launch campaigns into enemy territory. I think it makes perfect sense. I might have gone a little overboard with detailing their take on tactics but the point I'm trying to get across is they favor defensive tactics which befits their role of defenders and protectors rather than raging juggernauts like their forefathers the Black Templars. If that doesn't jive in any stretch of the imagination then I suppose I have to rework the history, I just dont think the Crimson Fists or Imperial Fists would have fit the bill too well. I honestly wanted Rogal Dorn for a primarch because of his inherent stubbornness and the Imperial Fist's valiance in defense as well as attack. It's a good point to stop and get C&C, too, regardless of how well or poorly the IA is looking at the time. Well, that's why this thread is here. B) Why? What does the symbol represent about the Chapter? Remember that it is your icon, your grand symbol that stands for everything about you, the only thing aside from your color scheme, power armor, and a boltgun that will be standard on every single one of your newly-indoctrinated Marines. Is this really the symbol that stands for your Chapter? The symbol is rather plain and clear. Astral Wardens, a star upon a shield. Wardens are guards, defenders, hence the shield and Astral pertains to stars and space, like constellations ergo the star. The chapter is made up of people who, from their time as mere wardens within their own towns and cities, have been driven to protect people and defend their homes, which is the perfect backround for guardians of the Malestrom no? Overall, you've got some decent ideas going here (especially this defender subtheme, I really love that) that need to get played up, and it looks like you're trying to grab too much attention from the start between coming from the Black Templars and being posted at the Maelstrom. I suggest cutting down on those last two things and focusing on all the interesting details that have crept in between the lines. There really are some interesting details - most notably, I would love to see these "wardens" on the planet played up some along with the Chapter's defender theme - but some large plot points that just make your Chapter look silly. Points that make my chapter look silly such as? It may be redundant to point them out but I have problems remembering things when they aren't pointed out specifically. I don't understand how I'm supposed to cut down on their Black Templar heritage considering that's a major facet of ANY chapter's upbringing. And being posted at the Maelstrom, being responsible for worlds hundreds if not thousands of lightyears away (quasi-Iron Snakes), isn't something I think should be understated, it's simply too epic. You mention that the people's culture greatly influenced the demeanor of your chapter. How? What is the culture like? I'm glad someone appreciates that I went into some detail about this. Like I've pointed out before this, the planet regards the caste (with an E!) of individuals who become Wardens to be honorable and it is something for every young boy to aspire to. Think of it like this. In M.Night Shamylan's movie "The Village" the idea behind the yellow cloaks, guard towers, and borders to their village was to protect the people from the creatures in the woods and this inspired me to create a planet-wide culture of constabulary soldiers. Basically, becoming a Warden is like becoming a cop, a soldier, and a public watchman all at the same time. They are trained to use swords, muskets, musket-pistols, cudgels, horse riding, and military grade tactics. As such, the calling for this is equally necessary since their homeworld is basically a vast mountainous forest with 3 small oceans and several great lakes. There are many places to hide and there are some vicious criminals and bandit gangs that prey on supply lines between the villages and cities as well as raiders who strike at the towns at night. Perfect reason to have such formidable protectors eh? I do know that I have given this chapter some thought and sometimes I think it would have been better to make this chapter fleet-based but as beneficial as that may seem, I want to give the chapter something to lose, something desirable for pirates and raiders. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/263535-assist-me-brothers-diy-loyalist-chapter/#findComment-3211314 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midgard Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Several critiques (and, later, suggestions) - feel free to take them or leave them as you will. On the topic of using Black Templars as your progenitor Chapter, I see one key problem. You have described the Astral Wardens as a generally Codex-adherent Chapter with Librarius and other trappings you would expect. Since your Chapter was actually trained by a Black Templars contingent, I would expect them to be very non-Codex instead. This means no Librarius (as the Black Templars do not use psykers in combat), and non-Codex organization. I would have a hard time imagining a Black Templar officer specifically raised and trained in the time-honored ways of his Chapter suddenly deciding to abandon them, in favor of adopting a set of doctrines and organizational changes that might be quite alien to him. Also, your initial training cadre does not include any Librarians, which would make proper training of a Librarius quite difficult and very dangerous - an untrained or improperly trained psyker can be the cause of a Chapter's downfall due to possession or worse. Finally, using four Strike Cruisers to guard your homeworld is not only overkill, but quite possibly dereliction of duty. Strike Cruisers are fast-reaction, rapid-response vessels, not defensive platforms. As many Chapters may only have 5-6 of these vessels, having four rapid-response cruisers permanently stationed at your homeworld leaves the Astral Wardens with very little offensive power projection capability. This, in turn, would mean that they are not doing the job they were tasked with, with its own set of implications. My suggestions to fix these problems are as follows (providing you are still going for a largely Codex-adherent Chapter): 1) Change the training cadre of your Chapter from Black Templars to some other, Codex-adherent Chapter. Of course, you may also introduce an element of surprise by mixing the training cadre from several Chapters of Dorn's lineage - the interaction between a Black Templar (non-Codex, anti-psyker attitude) and, say, a Crimson Fist or an Excoriator could be interesting to write about. At any rate, you WILL need to have at least one Librarian, so you will need to have enough training cadre officers that understand and accept the use of psychic warriors. You would also want to make sure that either your first Chapter Master, or the majority of your Chapter's training cadre are from Codex-adherent Chapters, otherwise it would be very strange to have a Black Templar discard all of his Chapter's teachings and identity in order to create, well, a Codex Chapter. 2) Let your Strike Cruisers do what they were designed for - strike the Emperor's enemies wherever they appear. The homeworld defense duties could be fulfilled by a fleet of defense monitors, captured vessels repurposed for defense, and the like. The actual Strike Cruisers, Battle Barges, and similar craft are best used to bring destruction to the Emperor's enemies. Hope it helps! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/263535-assist-me-brothers-diy-loyalist-chapter/#findComment-3211450 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erasmus of Baal Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 You weren't kidding... Nope. :P If I can find [the Octaguide] I'll take a good look at it. Sorry, I meant to include a link. The Octaguide can be found here. Just because the High Lords dislike a certain chapter doesn't mean the geneseed sample is any different than the primogenitor's. Also, the Black Templars have a known surplus of forces spread throughout the galaxy, I'm sure they can be called to oversee the birth of a new chapter of brothers... there are few more honorable undertakings. You mistake me. That argument that you are using - the BT's vast numbers - is exactly why the High Lords don't like them! To prevent another major Legion uprising Horus Heresy-style, all of the Legions were broken down into Chapters of roughly 1000 Marines. Except that the Black Templars said, "Screw that, we do what we want!" and ignored the command completely. The Black Templars are a force that the Imperium's totalitarian government simply cannot control and thus refuses to work with. Even if the Black Templars were offered an opportunity such as tutoring a new Chapter, I'm not even convinced that they would take it - I'm inclined to think that they would take the "new Chapter" and make it another Black Templar Crusade. Thus, no new Chapter anyways. The Badab War was a major calling to action because of a major event, now that it's over the High Lords wanted a chapter, much like the Astartes Praeses to guard the extremities of the Maelstrom so I created a chapter dedicated to just that cause. And in addition to Chaos, they will no doubt face a plethora of xenos. I don't know where you get the idea that the remains of the Red Corsairs are not a major threat to Imperial stability, it says in the codex itself they are peerless raiders and pirates, prowling Imperial shipping lanes throughout the region, and they are just one of several threats that linger within and around the Maelstrom. Xenos as well can take refuge on worlds near the Maelstrom. I guess our ideas of "major threat to Imperial stability" are different. Pirates and raiders, IMO, are a nuisance at best. For my own curiosity, which Codex are you getting your info from? On a related note, Space Marines are, at least fluffwise, an assault force that crushes enemies quickly and moving on. Long-term defense is better suited to the Imperial Guard - note that the Cadians are famous for being at the Eye of Terror, not the Iron Hands. Still, against a more mobile force like pirates and raiders, Space Marines could be the more viable option if they weren't such a valuable resource to begin with. I suggest making them fleet-based if you’re really insistent on defending the Maelstrom. I don't understand why this is so difficult for you to understand. It's an endeavor undertaken by a Castellan, Chaplain, Tech Priest, (forgot the Apothecary) and 5 Sword Brethren to train, guide, evaluate and basically nurse the fledgling chapter into existence. I read over the DIY guide and this makes perfect sense, I simply gave it the name of "Genesis Crusade". Go to the Octaguide (I provided the link above), and search the page for Black Templars. Octavulg explains in better words than mine why you should not use the Black Templars. Also, that’s not how a Chapter is made. The Lexicanum has a good article describing this process. There really isn't much else in there that sounds like imprudent information, I mean I basically went about answering the questions suggested in the DIY article. I basically copied and pasted that into a word document and answered the question in detail, and deleted each question I answered. If you could, I'd rather you tell me things I could improve upon rather than just tell me to cut down on this and that BECAUSE I just followed the questions asked in the article. Sure thing. I just didn't want to take up much space on it in the first run-through. What I’ll do is take the paragraph that you wrote and comment on it in red. The Astral Wardens' homeworld is a planet called Avennor. This world orbits a home star 450 light-years to the galactic north of the Maelstrom spacial anomaly and has become a relatively peaceful place in a galaxy of darkness and conflict. That sentence didn’t say anything except that it’s close to the Maelstrom, which fits better in the previous sentence. The planet's native human population live in a perpetual state of pre-industrial modernization which provides a unique mindset for the chapter to select it's recruits. Potentially good, but how is it unique? Either admit that it’s typical for that kind of planet or go into more detail. THIS is the part that makes discussing the homeworld worthwhile. The chapter draws its neophytes from Avennor's native guards, a cast of protectors known as Wardens of the many spread out villages and cities across the planet's surface. NO. Discussed further below. The planet's populace live in ignorance of the Astartes Kinda ridiculous, really. People just vanish and no one asks enough questions to get an explanation of the Astartes? and though Imperial rule is firmly embedded in the populace, the native culture and traditions are maintained from generation to generation and has shaped the very culture of the chapter as well. Obviously. Go into more detail on how the culture shapes the Chapter. The chapter's recruits are few and far between because their recruitment regimen follows every protocol and they have chosen not to lax on a single one. This further conflicts with the Black Templars’ anti-Codex mentality. Change it.The chapter's 10'th company is relatively small compared to other senior chapters but this is due to the chapter's stringent training practices and the methods of using their scouts. I’ve read this sentence four or five times now, and I’m still getting a “:)” reaction to it. Even disregarding the fact that I’m not sure what you’re saying, the Black Templars don’t use scouts and wouldn’t train a successor Chapter to do so! I can admit to putting in a few extra details about the planet that I had in mind which aren't necessary, I'll give you that, but again the questions in the DIY article did ask to describe the planet in detail and how the native people relate to the chapter. I tried my best to go into detail about that, and I would rather you tell me what I could add or points that I explained ineffectively. You really don't need to tell me about the geography in detail. Consider, for examples, how much we know about Fenris or Baal or Terra or Medusa or Ultramar. It's pretty basic stuff, really. The more important thing is the local culture, especially ways in which the local culture has affected the Chapter. The Black Templars are one of the very few chapters, if the only one, to leave chapter keeps on worlds they have saved, conquered, or are tactically beneficial. I took this to the extreme since they guard the Maelstrom, setting up garrisoned forts and listening posts on worlds and moons that would provide bases of operation to launch campaigns into enemy territory. Remember that you said this as I get into my next reply. I think it makes perfect sense. I might have gone a little overboard with detailing their take on tactics but the point I'm trying to get across is they favor defensive tactics which befits their role of defenders and protectors rather than raging juggernauts like their forefathers the Black Templars. If that doesn't jive in any stretch of the imagination then I suppose I have to rework the history, I just dont think the Crimson Fists or Imperial Fists would have fit the bill too well. I honestly wanted Rogal Dorn for a primarch because of his inherent stubbornness and the Imperial Fist's valiance in defense as well as attack. You're contradicting yourself. You claim below here, correctly, that the Chapter's forefathers are a key part of their current identity. Why, then, would they make such an about-face from the Black Templars and be defenders rather than constantly putting their enemies on the defense? The Black Templars' idea of defending an area is going out and killing everything that threatens the area. A Black Templar fortress is not a garrison but a forward base or pre-emptive beachhead. Honestly, you are describing a Chapter that sounds exactly like the Imperial Fists or Crimson Fists and then claiming that, no, they come from those Black Templar guys over there that already left because they'd rather be out killing things than standing around as an example. The symbol is rather plain and clear. Astral Wardens, a star upon a shield. Wardens are guards, defenders, hence the shield and Astral pertains to stars and space, like constellations ergo the star. Fair enough. It threw me off that you specified a five-pointed star. In my experience, you'll get the idea of a star across much better through an 8-or-more-pointed star. The chapter is made up of people who, from their time as mere wardens within their own towns and cities, have been driven to protect people and defend their homes, which is the perfect backround for guardians of the Malestrom no? :P Space Marine Chapters recruit preteens because the gene-therapy is basically kicking your puberty into overdrive with a few bonuses (minus, of course, the sexuality). If your world's local defenses are made up of children, those are pretty nearly worthless defenses. The technology for turning adults into Space Marines was lost with the Emperor. Points that make my chapter look silly such as? It may be redundant to point them out but I have problems remembering things when they aren't pointed out specifically. I don't understand how I'm supposed to cut down on their Black Templar heritage considering that's a major facet of ANY chapter's upbringing. And being posted at the Maelstrom, being responsible for worlds hundreds if not thousands of lightyears away (quasi-Iron Snakes), isn't something I think should be understated, it's simply too epic. You said it yourself: "it's simply too epic." That's the problem that makes your Chapter look kinda silly. You're trying to take a number of points that don't all match well (some of which, such as Black Templars and defending in the usual sense, directly contradict each other) and mash them together into one Chapter. It's like you're some teenage girl writing her first slashfic and trying to cram every character she's every been vaguely attracted to in there. The term for such is "Mary Sue" for females and "Gary Stu" for males. You mention that the people's culture greatly influenced the demeanor of your chapter. How? What is the culture like? I'm glad someone appreciates that I went into some detail about this. No, you didn't. EVERY chapter is influenced by the culture that it draws recruits from. You didn't say anything about what that culture is like or how it influenced the Chapter. Like I've pointed out before this, the planet regards the caste (with an E!) of individuals who become Wardens to be honorable and it is something for every young boy to aspire to. Think of it like this. In M.Night Shamylan's movie "The Village" the idea behind the yellow cloaks, guard towers, and borders to their village was to protect the people from the creatures in the woods and this inspired me to create a planet-wide culture of constabulary soldiers. Basically, becoming a Warden is like becoming a cop, a soldier, and a public watchman all at the same time. They are trained to use swords, muskets, musket-pistols, cudgels, horse riding, and military grade tactics. As such, the calling for this is equally necessary since their homeworld is basically a vast mountainous forest with 3 small oceans and several great lakes. There are many places to hide and there are some vicious criminals and bandit gangs that prey on supply lines between the villages and cities as well as raiders who strike at the towns at night. Perfect reason to have such formidable protectors eh? Where were these details before? While not great (a planet without serious amounts of water probably won’t stay habitable for long without help that they don’t seem to be getting), these details should have been in the IA from the start. I do know that I have given this chapter some thought and sometimes I think it would have been better to make this chapter fleet-based but as beneficial as that may seem, I want to give the chapter something to lose, something desirable for pirates and raiders. Something desirable for pirates and raiders? You mean something like a spiffy Adeptus Astartes ship with awesome weapons and power armor and vehicles aboard? :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/263535-assist-me-brothers-diy-loyalist-chapter/#findComment-3211564 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Debonair Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I think, after 6 years of absence from the hobby and nearly 8 years of searching for a name, theme, and chapter identity for my own custom force, I think I've found what I want for my loyal space marine defenders. Please respect my choices but constructive criticism and helpful improvements/advice are very welcome. Well. I haven't read the other C&C's given, so please forgive me if I repeat someone else's points here. :) The thing that strikes me is that your Chapter has much more in common with the Imperial Fists than the Black Templars (they see themselves as protectors, and follow the codex's organisation rather than their own, off-beat one), so I might advocate cutting the bit that says they were Templars successors. The Imperial Fists and Black Templars share the same genetic heritage anyhow, so you can still easily get any of the traits you admire from the BT's into your Chapter with minimal fuss. :P Just a suggestion, feel free to use, discard or ignore it as you see fit. :) EDIT: Accursed typo. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/263535-assist-me-brothers-diy-loyalist-chapter/#findComment-3211685 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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