EricBasser Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I'm trying to figure out my Chaos Space Marine HQ for allies. I know I want Tzeentch something on a disc. For Chaos Lord, would Disc, Sigil, Black Mace, and Gift be good? I know it's ap 4, but with the possibility to take hatred and fleshbane with d 6 attacks added, the sheer number of attacks is frightening. Or should I stick to a foot Lord with Burning Brand and a Power Sword? I'm running 8 Flamers, and two squads of 5 Screamers in my list, so I don't think I need more ap 2-3, but wanted peoples opinions. The Lord will be running with 20 extra wounds. . .er cultists. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 The Mace is probably best used on a Daemon Prince to be honest. On a Lord the Mace also has it's uses but ap4 is a real hinderance, comming from the fact he quite easily can have a PW instead. Having said that I actually think you could split easily sum op the 3 best Daemonic Weapons in no order: 1. The Murder Sword best used on your general Warlord, basicly because he is able to kill your opponents HQ and suffers no discomfort at all. 2. The Axe of Blind Fury second best used on your Warlord, great for mowing down units in mass, very Khornate, less usefull in challenges since your opponet will most likely hit you on 3's. 3. The Black Mace best used on a Daemon Prince, period. Imho to expensive for use on a Lord. Great for monster hunting altough in general you won't need that. Now the Burning Brand is something different, it will add some attacks on your lord but is on it's best a ap3 flamer... Seems worth the effort on a Daemon Prince but then again not that much worth it because a Helldrake does this comperable job better with a Baleflamer. Thake it for the fun of it but don't expect it to be insane or something. For a Lord on foot I think the Murder Sword or Axe of Blind Rage are the best options. Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricBasser Posted October 17, 2012 Author Share Posted October 17, 2012 I would take the murder sword, but sadly it is just a artefact and not a true daemon weapon. Maybe it will get a FaQ and they forgot Daemon weapon in it's profile. So Chaos Lord, Disc, Mark of Tzeentch, Sigil, Burning Brand, Power Sword, and Gift should be good then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I run a Lord on a Bike with the Black Mace and he seems to really put it to anyone he goes up against. Lord Bike; Black Mace; Sigil of Corruption; Gift of Mutation He rolls hard, the same concept could be said with the Disk of Tzeentch as it basically him on a jetbike with a few other perks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricBasser Posted October 17, 2012 Author Share Posted October 17, 2012 The disc acts as a jetbike, but does it add the toughness? I'll have to play test both and see. I feel like he should be good at combat, but at the same time, spamming ap 3&1 Flamers seem like a good idea. Burning Brand, Baleflamer, and 10 Breath of Chaos toting daemons. I have until the 27th to decide for the tournament I'm attending Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attomsk Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 The Mace is probably best used on a Daemon Prince to be honest.On a Lord the Mace also has it's uses but ap4 is a real hinderance, comming from the fact he quite easily can have a PW instead. Having said that I actually think you could split easily sum op the 3 best Daemonic Weapons in no order: 1. The Murder Sword best used on your general Warlord, basicly because he is able to kill your opponents HQ and suffers no discomfort at all. 2. The Axe of Blind Fury second best used on your Warlord, great for mowing down units in mass, very Khornate, less usefull in challenges since your opponet will most likely hit you on 3's. 3. The Black Mace best used on a Daemon Prince, period. Imho to expensive for use on a Lord. Great for monster hunting altough in general you won't need that. Now the Burning Brand is something different, it will add some attacks on your lord but is on it's best a ap3 flamer... Seems worth the effort on a Daemon Prince but then again not that much worth it because a Helldrake does this comperable job better with a Baleflamer. Thake it for the fun of it but don't expect it to be insane or something. For a Lord on foot I think the Murder Sword or Axe of Blind Rage are the best options. Cheers, I disagree, I would order them: 1. Axe of Blind Fury 2. Black Mace / Murder Sword In most cases the Murder sword is just going to act like a power weapon, and once during a game it will be uber. I like the black mace a lot but its damn expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tzimisce169 Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I think the black mace is put to best use on a fast moving hq, be it DP, Juggerlord, Sorcerer on disc etc. On a foot slogger it's just not going to see enough use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfbiter Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 @EricBasser: I gave my Nurgle Terminator Lord the Black Mace in a game last week against my friend's Dark Angels. In the last 2 rounds of the game, the sheer number of attacks and wounding on 2+ the mace gave my Lord helped him kill Belial in a challenge and I was able to pull off a tied game. This after losing 80 percent of my army to plasma cannons! :) So I really, really like the Black Mace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Nurgle Lord, Bike, Black Mace. *Smack smack smack* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricBasser Posted October 18, 2012 Author Share Posted October 18, 2012 Ok. Still unsure of the Disc. It changes the unit type to Jetbike and refeer to the rule book. Under the rule book, the first rule for Bikes/Jetbikes is Armoured Steed. It says it ups the toughness by 1 for riders. If it's included as standard wargear, it's bonus is included in the profile. I just want to make sure I'm playing this right. So in reality, a Mark of Tzeentch Sorcerer or Chaos Lord with a Disc gets +1 to Toughness and Attacks. What does everyone think about that? Or is this just news to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 That's correct. T5, 3++ Sorcerers, here I come, hehe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I'm considering the mace as an alternative to the murder sword for a slaaneshi lord. I6 coupled with a lot of extra swings gives you s good chance of killing that HQ or big nasty before they get a chance to swing and AP4 is the same as AP3 when you're after 2+ units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolek Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Gentleman, I am new to playing chaos and i have the old and new codex's. I have to say the murder sword is my preferred choice, but I have not seen any rules for just a plain daemon weapon. Have I missed something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricBasser Posted October 18, 2012 Author Share Posted October 18, 2012 Nope haven't missed anything. Only daemon weapons are the Black Mace and The Khorne Axe. Both are in the artefacts section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 "Plain" daemon weapons are from the old codex, referring to the "normal" ones we had for each mark. I think it's worth it because of the sheer amount of attacks with fleshbane you receive. At least one has to go through and it seems like it bypasses EW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 I think it's worth it because of the sheer amount of attacks with fleshbane you receive. At least one has to go through and it seems like it bypasses EW. Running the numbers of a mace + lord, it looks like this: Average of 8 attacks on the charge with hitting on 3's & wounding on 2's looks like this: 4+ save = 4.4 unsaved wounds 3+ save = 1.48 unsaved wounds 2+ save = 0.74 unsaved wounds Thats great against 4+ (duh) and decent against 3+ but I'd say it falls flat when you have to beat up a terminator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeruel Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 I think it's worth it because of the sheer amount of attacks with fleshbane you receive. At least one has to go through and it seems like it bypasses EW. Running the numbers of a mace + lord, it looks like this: Average of 8 attacks on the charge with hitting on 3's & wounding on 2's looks like this: 4+ save = 4.4 unsaved wounds 3+ save = 1.48 unsaved wounds 2+ save = 0.74 unsaved wounds Thats great against 4+ (duh) and decent against 3+ but I'd say it falls flat when you have to beat up a terminator. And this is why my Chaos Lord is in Terminator Armour with the Black Mace and a Power Axe. The Axe comes free with the Terminator Armour anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 I think it's worth it because of the sheer amount of attacks with fleshbane you receive. At least one has to go through and it seems like it bypasses EW. Running the numbers of a mace + lord, it looks like this: Average of 8 attacks on the charge with hitting on 3's & wounding on 2's looks like this: 4+ save = 4.4 unsaved wounds 3+ save = 1.48 unsaved wounds 2+ save = 0.74 unsaved wounds Thats great against 4+ (duh) and decent against 3+ but I'd say it falls flat when you have to beat up a terminator. Most of the time you're rerolling those failed hits with Votlw as well though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonah Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Daemon Prince with Wings, Armour & The Mace is mental. I played him last night and he powered into some Sanguinary Guard, murdered their leader, killed 2 more from Mace failed tests, plowed into some Tacticals, killed them, mowed down a Baal Predator, turned round to look at some Jump Pack vets but then my opponent gave up. So yeah, the mace is amazing on him, but it's worth noting he's awesome without it as well. In the example above I only rolled 2s for the Daemon Weapon; he could have caused a lot of carnage just Smashing his way as normal. The mace gives him a more guaranteed success rate and the possible bonus of killing things outside of his Challenges. Regarding the Murder Sword, I love the idea and I will use it at some point, but if you have an Axe Lord mowing through the general raff you can use the Mace Prince to deal with the nastier stuff anyway. If you are a true follower of Chaos you'll take the Murder Sword to kill your friend's favourite models ;) Thats great against 4+ (duh) and decent against 3+ but I'd say it falls flat when you have to beat up a terminator. Are those figures for a normal Lord? Because Daemon gets AP2 on all his hits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Yeah figures were for a stock lord with the mace. VotLW and marks would all improve it to some degree, in addition a demon prince would use it more effectively to be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Daemon Prince with Wings, Armour & The Mace is mental. I played him last night and he powered into some Sanguinary Guard, murdered their leader, killed 2 more from Mace failed tests, plowed into some Tacticals, killed them, mowed down a Baal Predator, turned round to look at some Jump Pack vets but then my opponent gave up. So yeah, the mace is amazing on him, but it's worth noting he's awesome without it as well. In the example above I only rolled 2s for the Daemon Weapon; he could have caused a lot of carnage just Smashing his way as normal. The mace gives him a more guaranteed success rate and the possible bonus of killing things outside of his Challenges. It`s a good point concerning killing something outside challenges. He`s going to have to challenge anyway, so why not enjoy a nice tiny area of effect power ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyl- Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I took a geared up prince only once since the new codex released. He had some pretty bad luck :( We do have other daemon weapons, btw. Typhus' Manreaper for instance. Of course you can't put that on a regular lord, but it's out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circus Nurgling Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 So, just to clarify, the Black Mace is awesome on a DP because Smash USR makes it AP2 instead of AP4? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Keyaetus Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Don't all attacks from monstrous creatures ignore armour saves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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