Using Dark Apostle

[AekoldHelbrass]

Dark Apostle has Zealot, which is really good for support HQ. Quite expensive though, I would gladly put off sigil. But still, how to use him?

 

1. To utilize Fearless it should be someone without it in the first place. So terminators, chosen, chaos marines or cultists.

2. To utilize Hatred it should be someone hard-hitting.

3. To utilize boons rerolling some stuffed champion or lord should be attached.

 

But what is the best option? I thought about cultists, but for the price of Apostle I can field another unit of 25 of them. What else? 20 marines under Fabius? Or should we just forget about him at all?

[EricBasser]

When I make my Chaos Space Marines list, I was thinking Tzeentch Dark Apostle, 30 Cultists, and a Tzeentch Sorcerer. It can be done with Chaos Marines too. Roll twice on the Tzeentch Powers and try to get boon

Proceed to cast boon on Champions. You could surround with Thousand Sons to get a better change of Boon of Mutation.

 

That was my thought. Could ally with daemons and buff a Bloodthirster or Fateweaver to make sure they don't turn into a spawn or prince

[Urauloth]

Since I'm planning a Word Bearer warband I really want to find a use for the apostle but it seems like all the good places you could put him... he can't go. No jump pack option, so no MoK raptors. No TDA option, so that's out the window if I want my terminators to deep strike (which I do) so that really leaves chosen or a CSM squad. Giving berzerkers hatred would be great, but they're already fearless so you're wasting that aspect of zealot, and berzerkers are hard enough to get into combat reliably without attatching an expensive and fragile HQ. I'm stumped, really.

[d@n]

put him with possessed maybe. take 2xgifts of mutation on the champ and re-roll the results is a possible option.

[Captn Dees]

Right now I'm considering adding him to my 1ksons to give a bit of flexibility. As I'm taking Ahriman, a large blob of cultist, and 5-8 MoT termies there are some options to infiltrate 1-3 infantry units up the field. The idea of having some flexibility and rerolling Boons sounds attractive on paper, but I'm not sure how it will hold up in the real world!

[Hazath]

I was thinking of giving him a power axe or Brand and shoving him into a rhino with khorn marked CSMs.

 

I'm just not sure if it is equaly useful as a biker sorcerer.

[Urauloth]

I was thinking of giving him a power axe or Brand and shoving him into a rhino with khorn marked CSMs.

 

I'm just not sure if it is equaly useful as a biker sorcerer.

 

Probably not, honestly.

 

I'm tempted to put him with a rhino unit too, but that means cutting them down to 9, which means losing a special weapon...

[Caffeineated Chaos]

I was thinking of giving him a power axe or Brand and shoving him into a rhino with khorn marked CSMs.

 

I'm just not sure if it is equaly useful as a biker sorcerer.

Dark Apostle can't select melee warger, just ranged, chaos rewards(not steeds), and artefacts. So he's stuck with the maul unless you select the mace, the axe, or the murder sword :/

[Hazath]

Dark Apostle can't select melee warger, just ranged, chaos rewards(not steeds), and artefacts. So he's stuck with the maul unless you select the mace, the axe, or the murder sword :/

 

Well that makes me want to take sorcerer over DA even more. I don't see myself going crazy enough to give melee demon weapons to DA instead of lord.

 

Seriously. What is DA good for.

[Urauloth]

He's really pretty disappointing. If he could just take TDA (and I see no reason why he shouldn't) I'd be converting one right now.

 

He's not a completely horrible HQ choice, but the harsh fact is the sorcerer exists, and is better at almost anything you'd want an apostle to do, way more versatile, and capable of functioning in jump, TDA and bike units. In terms of competitiveness, there's absolutely no reason to ever take a DA over a sorc.

[totgeboren]

Chosen. They become fearless, hit much harder in CC and they have the same armour/speed as the DA. They can also be tricked out enough to be able to handle just about anything themselves, without relying on an IC to do all the damage (meaning they suffer less from his weaker cc skills as compared to a lord).

[UglyWretch]

I've just ordered my DA. was gonna throw him in with Cultists, but now I might have him with my DV Chosen.... Hmmmm.

[techsoldaten]

We're forgetting the leadership buff he can provide.

 

Stand him up between several units of CSMs for leadership 10 to keep them from falling back.

[UglyWretch]

I'm thinking of giving him a Black Mace. Make him great against Orks.

And against Marines, he can have VoTL for free, which gives him Preferred nemy, and as we all know, you only need one model in the unit to have Preferred for the whole unit to have it! (Unless they've already thought of that)

[Lepaca]

I'm thinking of giving him a Black Mace. Make him great against Orks.

And against Marines, he can have VoTL for free, which gives him Preferred nemy, and as we all know, you only need one model in the unit to have Preferred for the whole unit to have it! (Unless they've already thought of that)

 

No. VotLW is purely fluffy on an apostel as it gives you HATRED (SM) which he already has thanks to being a ZEALOT. VotLW would be awesome if it gave you PE. ;)

[Minsc]

Aside from the fact that the DA is rather crappy with lacklustre options, there are very few scenarios where your average Chaos Lord wouldn't be a better choice.

 

With that said, if I where to field a DA, it would most likely be in a unit of melee-Chosen with either MoS+IoS. They are not fearless so they benefit from his Zealotrule. They have many attacks each, so they benefit from his Zealotrule more than most other units would, they 'only' have Ld9 (you don't give them VotLW if you plan on attaching a DA!), so they can utilize his ld10.

 

The chosen on their part, gives the DA FnP.

 

put him with possessed maybe. take 2xgifts of mutation on the champ and re-roll the results is a possible option.

 

I'm fairly certain the DA doesn't allow you to reroll boon-rolls given by Gift of Mutation.

[Brother Ambroz]

I'm fairly certain the DA doesn't allow you to reroll boon-rolls given by Gift of Mutation.

 

Last time I read it I'm pretty sure it said all boon rolls.

[Minsc]

I'm fairly certain the DA doesn't allow you to reroll boon-rolls given by Gift of Mutation.

 

Last time I read it I'm pretty sure it said all boon rolls.

 

Pg. 35, Beseech the Dark Gods: After deployment, if a character in the Dark Apostles unit...

 

Pg. 67, Gift of Mutation: Before deployment, roll on the Chaos Boon Table...

 

Since GoM is rolled for before deployment, and BtDG is only in effect after deployment, there is no way to make use of BtDG on your GoM-rolls, sadly.

[SCOOBYSHAG]

put him with possessed maybe. take 2xgifts of mutation on the champ and re-roll the results is a possible option.

 

Hmm this could be interesting. Give the DA MoS along with the Possessed. All striking at I5 with rerolls to hit and possibly AP3 or Reroll wounds.

 

Or Mark of Tzeentch on the DA and Possessed. The DA would have 3+ armor and 3+ Invul, the Possessed 3+ armor, 4+ Invul.

[Minsc]

A DA in a unit of Possessed feels like a waste of potential and pts to me:

The Possessed are Fearless so the DA doesn't help out there, and meanwhile the DA doesn't have Fleet so he prevents the Possessed from fleeting.

 

And do the Possessed really need hatred? They will most likely beat the crap out of their target anyway (fighting GEQ's and MEQ's) or get stuck in a fight where they will loose anyway. (TEQ's, anything with a 2+)

[Brother Ambroz]

I'm fairly certain the DA doesn't allow you to reroll boon-rolls given by Gift of Mutation.

 

Last time I read it I'm pretty sure it said all boon rolls.

 

Pg. 35, Beseech the Dark Gods: After deployment, if a character in the Dark Apostles unit...

 

Pg. 67, Gift of Mutation: Before deployment, roll on the Chaos Boon Table...

 

Since GoM is rolled for before deployment, and BtDG is only in effect after deployment, there is no way to make use of BtDG on your GoM-rolls, sadly.

 

Just got home and checked. Alas you're right. Just makes the DAs even more useless than before. They might have been semi useful with a group of GoM characters too.... :P

[wargame insomniac]

I was thinking of running a DA with either a 30 strong CC cultists mob or a large unit of MoS/MoK Chosen/CSM.

 

MoS with IoE would give some durability plus striking first vs most opponents.

MoK with IoW would give a mass of hard hitting attacks and get most benefit from hatred.

 

Anyone tried either in practice?

 

Cheers

 

James

[the jeske]

each one of those is worse then taking an identical unit[by the way cultists trying to do hth . bad idea against everything that is not tau firewarriors] with a lord.

[wargame insomniac]

each one of those is worse then taking an identical unit[by the way cultists trying to do hth . bad idea against everything that is not tau firewarriors] with a lord.

IF you give them same wargear the DA costs the same as Lord:

A Lord has +1A and +1W.

A DA has Ld bubble, Beseech the Dark Gods and most importantly Zealot.

 

(And before you say anything, yes I realise that you have more flexibility in wargear for Lord).

 

But the point I am making is that rerolling CC misses (in 1st turn) for a big CC unit should have considerably more impact on a combat than a single extra attack from Lord.

 

Let's assume squad of 13 CSM with BP&CCW charging some tac marines (for simplicity of maths). Including champion that would be 40 attacks. An average of 20 hit first time so that is 20 would be re-rolled, giving a further 10 hits with Zealot re-roll.

 

Combine Zealot with CSM with MoK and IoW and that is a heavy hitting charge.

 

Note- in my 750 point mini tourney army tomorrow I am taking a Lord rather than DA. So it is not that I don't rate Lords. It's just that I think that DA's CAN be equally viable.

 

I just don't understand why you're flat-out against DA in any circumstance?

 

I would be interested to hear your reasoning.

 

Cheers

 

James

[Minsc]

A Lord has +1A and +1W.

A DA has Ld bubble, Beseech the Dark Gods and most importantly Zealot.

 

To be fair, the Lord also has +1 I, +1 WS, +1 BS, unlocks culttroops, and will also essentially have the Zealotrule if you roll it on the Warlordtable. B)