Sergeants, Lances and Challenges

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

I'm thinking of putting a Power Lance on my Assault Squad Sergeant. He formerly carried a Thunder Hammer and due to the positioning of the hands on said Hammer and on a Grey Knight Halberd I can switch them by doing little other than cutting his hands off. This is kind of a big deal for me because I'm a very lazy and unskilled modeller/painter and have put a lot of time (for me) into painting his pauldrons and I have no confidence that I could remove both his arms without severely damaging him in the process. This guy is going to be rolling with my Librarian and Priest and so will be handling challenges, by and large. I've used this squad in way over twenty games and they've only been charged three or four times so most of the time he'll be hitting with 4A at S6 (S4 base, +1 for the Lance, +1 for FC) and AP3 and he has a 5++ against anything short of a PF or TH which he'll swing before anyway.

 

I don't do tournaments and while I'm not really competitive at all I also don't want to give my guys substandard equipment. Before I start cutting I thought I'd see what the frater have to say; Power Lance on a challenge-handling Assault Squad Sergeant - yay or nay?

 

Also, if you were playing me would you even accept the NFH bit as a Lance? I'm mindful of the fact that the Rulebook provides that a Halberd counts as a Power Axe. Obviously I'll make it clear to my opponent(s) that it's a Lance and not an Axe.

[Erasmus of Baal]

Power Lances are only really great when you're charging, so I would recommend considering very carefully whether you will be challenging or being challenged. If the former, go for the lance as it'll help in a lot of situations. If not, I'd recommend a sword or axe so that you can still make an account of yourself before going down.

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

Power Lances are only really great when you're charging, so I would recommend considering very carefully whether you will be challenging or being challenged. If the former, go for the lance as it'll help in a lot of situations. If not, I'd recommend a sword or axe so that you can still make an account of yourself before going down.

 

 

His squad rarely gets charged, though sometimes it does happen of course. Maybe I'm overlooking something but why does it matter whether he's issuing or accepting a challenge?

 

His main job is to screen my Librarian and Priest from having to answer challenges but obviously I'd also like him to be able to take down anything short of a Captain/Lord/Warboss level character without relying too much on luck, even if he dies swinging.

[Erasmus of Baal]

Challenging vs. being challenged is important - oh, wait. Nevermind. I always associate challenging with charging, even though the defender can issue a challenger if the attacker doesn't. THAT is the important part. I think it would help, though, to be issuing the challenges yourself, just so that the power lance is getting its main damage right where it's needed most.

 

Of course, if you're more concerned about something dying, AP2 and Unwieldy tend to be good at that. If you're more concerned about him striking wounds before falling, a sword or lance would be more appropriate just for striking at Initiative. IMO, the Power Lance just doesn't have enough strength behind it to be worthwhile, but I'm not exactly a brilliant player here. +1 Strength over the sword isn't worth the drawback for getting charged or not wiping the enemy unit immediately.

[Spaced Hulk]

I vote yay: If the squad is generally going to be accompanied by both a Librarian and a Sanguinary Priest (I'm assuming the Priest has a power weapon of some kind) then even if they're charged/combat goes to multiple rounds, they'll still have a decent punch in close combat.

 

If you're really concerned about the effectiveness of the lance outside of charging, you could always give him a second power weapon type as a backup. As he was armed with a thunder hammer before, you could give him both a power lance and a power sword/axe for his original points cost. Just model another weapon on him somewhere and choose which one to use each round.

 

Alternatively, as you're using a Grey Knight halberd and you're not a tournament player (where I suppose it could possibly be contentious), you could say that it's unique weapon with multiple profiles, eg: "Srg Whatshisname has the honour of carrying a rare Baal Warblade into battle. In game terms he counts as being armed with both a power lance and a power axe (and therefore gains the usual +1 attack for two weapons) and may choose which sort of weapon he uses in each round of combat."

 

As long as it's codex legal, correctly pointed and you explain to your opponant, I doubt anybody would have an issue with it.

[Captain Idaho]

How offensive your unit is, combined with the likiness of being charges, can mitigate just how much of a downside power lances are. If you rarely get charged and expect most combat to be you initiating it, consider how offensive you charge is when reviewing the usefulness of a lance.

 

On the charge it's the all round best power weapon against Space Marines or equivilent, and if your unit as a whole can kill most of a unit in 1 turn, with mop up next turn, then does it matter whether you go down to AP4? Most power armoured units will be 10 or less models, so if your charge kills off 5 or 7 reliably on a charge, with a capacity to kill off a further 4 in subsequent turns, then hitting at AP4 won't change the result barring bad luck situations (which affect us all regardless of weapons).

 

A Librarian and Priest should have power weapons sufficient to kill opposing models to mitigate 2 turn combat spill overs. However, if you get Furious Charge then you probably can get away with a power sword anyway. Remember it's only ordinary Marines who can't have S5 power swords!

[JamesI]

Res, for the unit in question I think a spear would work fine. I have no experience using power spears, and I'd probably still go power sword anyway, but I think the spear would work.

[Brother Xeones]

How offensive your unit is, combined with the likiness of being charges, can mitigate just how much of a downside power lances are. If you rarely get charged and expect most combat to be you initiating it, consider how offensive you charge is when reviewing the usefulness of a lance.

 

On the charge it's the all round best power weapon against Space Marines or equivilent, and if your unit as a whole can kill most of a unit in 1 turn, with mop up next turn, then does it matter whether you go down to AP4? Most power armoured units will be 10 or less models, so if your charge kills off 5 or 7 reliably on a charge, with a capacity to kill off a further 4 in subsequent turns, then hitting at AP4 won't change the result barring bad luck situations (which affect us all regardless of weapons).

 

A Librarian and Priest should have power weapons sufficient to kill opposing models to mitigate 2 turn combat spill overs. However, if you get Furious Charge then you probably can get away with a power sword anyway. Remember it's only ordinary Marines who can't have S5 power swords!

 

I agree with Idaho's thought process here. If you are looking for pure alpha-strike against MEQ, a spear is your best weapon of choice. Even compared to a S5 Lightning Claw, A S6 spear will out-perform it --at least for the first round, and if you retain your bolt pistol for the extra PW attack (if my mathhammer skills are correct).

 

OK, I know this is off-topic, but I kinda wish that they'd done the rules for spears differently. 1+ Strength is fine, but we've already got tons of strength-modifying weapons out there --axes, mauls, fists, hammers, etc-- what I feel the spear should have been is an initiative-modifying weapon. Using GK halberds as a starting point, I think spears should have been a I:1+/AP:3 or I:2+/AP:3 weapon in the first round of combat, and Unwieldy in subsequent rounds. It even makes sense considering that a model with a spear should have greater "reach" and striking range than would a model with a shorter weapon. In subsequent rounds however, once the combatants close the distance, a longer weapon becomes more cumbersome and difficult to use effectively. But that's just me... :cry: