Lack of infiltration

[Lady_Mournival]

Hello all,

 

I just recently obtained a copy of the new 'dex, and while I have to say that I am impressed overall, there's one area I find it severely lacking in; the lack of infiltrate.

 

It's a major gap and quite unfluffy. One would think Alpha Legion would be able to infiltrate, but with the current 'dex no. One would think cultists could infiltrate, but no. One would think chose could infiltrate but no.

 

I really think they need to add an infiltrate option (to be bought of course) to chosen and cultists. Not just for fluff, but just to give more tactical flexibility to the army.

 

What're you thoughts?

 

~BBM

[Noctus Cornix]

The 'Master of Deception' Warlord Trait allows you to infiltrate d3 units in your army.

 

Nuff said.

[Lady_Mournival]

The 'Master of Deception' Warlord Trait allows you to infiltrate d3 units in your army.

 

Nuff said.

Wow, epic fail on my part missing that :) . Thank you Noctis Cornix.

[Sception]

Unfortunately, you only have a 1/6 chance of getting that trait (WL traits really should be selected, not rolled for - starting a game with a bitter taste in your mouth from a dud roll is no fun, and even casual players might want to select specific traits to reflect their homebrew characters). At least there are a couple special characters (Huron & Ahriman) who get the trait by default. Huron in particular has basically been commandeered by the Alpha Legion player base at this point, I'm guessing Alpha Legion players with conversions, counts as models, and even regular old Huron models just painted up in Alpha Legion colors will outnumber actual Red Coursair players using Huron by at least 5 to 1 under this book's tenure.

[Hellrender]

and 2 special characters have that trait standard, Huron and Ahriman, allowing you to always have atleast 1 infiltrating unit, sometimes more :)

 

edit: and then i read malisteen wrote exactly the same.. but much better >.<

[Sception]

edit: and then i read malisteen wrote exactly the same.. but much better >.<

 

http://i.imgur.com/fd1Zu.gif

[Ifrit446]

Huron in particular has basically been commandeered by the Alpha Legion player base at this point, I'm guessing Alpha Legion players with conversions, counts as models, and even regular old Huron models just painted up in Alpha Legion colors will outnumber actual Red Coursair players using Huron by at least 5 to 1 under this book's tenure.

 

I see no problem here...^_^

 

But yes, we Alphas are abit hindered by "having" to take either Ahriman or Huron to get our infiltrators. But then again, we also get our beloved cultists as well so I for one cannot complain. Plus the look on an opponents face when you Infiltrate a squad of 30 cultists led by Huron and Khârn is hilarious :lol:

[Lady_Mournival]

Unfortunately, you only have a 1/6 chance of getting that trait (WL traits really should be selected, not rolled for - starting a game with a bitter taste in your mouth from a dud roll is no fun, and even casual players might want to select specific traits to reflect their homebrew characters). At least there are a couple special characters (Huron & Ahriman) who get the trait by default. Huron in particular has basically been commandeered by the Alpha Legion player base at this point, I'm guessing Alpha Legion players with conversions, counts as models, and even regular old Huron models just painted up in Alpha Legion colors will outnumber actual Red Coursair players using Huron by at least 5 to 1 under this book's tenure.

 

 

and 2 special characters have that trait standard, Huron and Ahriman, allowing you to always have atleast 1 infiltrating unit, sometimes more :)

 

edit: and then i read malisteen wrote exactly the same.. but much better >.<

 

Oh wow.... even more epic failure on my part. Thanks for the replies guys.

 

I see no problem here...^_^

 

But yes, we Alphas are abit hindered by "having" to take either Ahriman or Huron to get our infiltrators. But then again, we also get our beloved cultists as well so I for one cannot complain. Plus the look on an opponents face when you Infiltrate a squad of 30 cultists led by Huron and Khârn is hilarious :lol:

That does sound awesome, but I don't know, for me cultists don't really suit the bill, when imp-vets can represent Alpha legion agents so much more accurately.

[TheDarkApostle]

Much more fun to roll a "3" on the number of units infiltrated and then infiltrate 60 Possessed :lol:

 

TDA

[Hellrender]

tbh, i think i will use it for my Night Lords aswell (count as Huron). i think it works better then getting that silly Fear rule everywhere..

[Iron Sage]

Hello all,

 

I just recently obtained a copy of the new 'dex, and while I have to say that I am impressed overall, there's one area I find it severely lacking in; the lack of infiltrate.

 

It's a major gap and quite unfluffy. One would think Alpha Legion would be able to infiltrate, but with the current 'dex no. One would think cultists could infiltrate, but no. One would think chose could infiltrate but no.

 

I really think they need to add an infiltrate option (to be bought of course) to chosen and cultists. Not just for fluff, but just to give more tactical flexibility to the army.

 

What're you thoughts?

 

~BBM

 

I can understand your point concerning cultists (would have been fluffy, but obviously the developers didnt want to laden a very cheap unit with expensive special rules which would probably raise the cost of cultists with something like 2 points base), but not really Chosen. It`s not really "fluffy" in any way that the warlords elitè infiltrates in their heavy, joint-screaming, power armour.

 

As for infiltrate, we have it better than many, as its quite accessable for us if we sacrifice one HQ for Huron or Ahriman. The devs want us to take special characters to open up some builds, and for me, thats okay. At least our specials do something this time around.

 

Edit: just saw what malisteen and the others wrote, lol. Never mind me, my point that inflitrating Chosen as standard is not exactly fluffy stands though B)

[diabloelmo]

Hello all,

 

I just recently obtained a copy of the new 'dex, and while I have to say that I am impressed overall, there's one area I find it severely lacking in; the lack of infiltrate.

 

It's a major gap and quite unfluffy. One would think Alpha Legion would be able to infiltrate, but with the current 'dex no. One would think cultists could infiltrate, but no. One would think chose could infiltrate but no.

 

I really think they need to add an infiltrate option (to be bought of course) to chosen and cultists. Not just for fluff, but just to give more tactical flexibility to the army.

 

What're you thoughts?

 

~BBM

 

I can understand your point concerning cultists (would have been fluffy, but obviously the developers didnt want to laden a very cheap unit with expensive special rules which would probably raise the cost of cultists with something like 2 points base), but not really Chosen. It`s not really "fluffy" in any way that the warlords elitè infiltrates in their heavy, joint-screaming, power armour.

 

As for infiltrate, we have it better than many, as its quite accessable for us if we sacrifice one HQ for Huron or Ahriman. The devs want us to take special characters to open up some builds, and for me, thats okay. At least our specials do something this time around.

 

Edit: just saw what malisteen and the others wrote, lol. Never mind me, my point that inflitrating Chosen as standard is not exactly fluffy stands though :o

 

Heh, you think that is bad? With RAW, you are allowed to infiltrate a unit of Terminators AND their Land Raider. Unit of infantry + dedicated transport. *giggle*

[Iron Sage]

Lol...

 

Fair point that ^^

[Nineswords]

Huron in particular has basically been commandeered by the Alpha Legion player base at this point, I'm guessing Alpha Legion players with conversions, counts as models, and even regular old Huron models just painted up in Alpha Legion colors will outnumber actual Red Coursair players using Huron by at least 5 to 1 under this book's tenure.

 

This. I've been looking at the dex all night and this was the only thing I could think of.

[Iron Sage]

Huron in particular has basically been commandeered by the Alpha Legion player base at this point, I'm guessing Alpha Legion players with conversions, counts as models, and even regular old Huron models just painted up in Alpha Legion colors will outnumber actual Red Coursair players using Huron by at least 5 to 1 under this book's tenure.

 

This. I've been looking at the dex all night and this was the only thing I could think of.

 

No!

 

Huron is taken for my Iron Warriors force! :D

 

Seriously though, special character spam apart, its very cool that it is possible, meaning: Its very cool that our special character has actual "Army-wide" useful special rules that open up builds. About time really :)

[Dallas Drake]

edit: and then i read malisteen wrote exactly the same.. but much better >.<

 

http://i.imgur.com/fd1Zu.gif

 

I LOVE this, where's it from!?

 

 

Oh & counts as Huron FTW!

 

DD

[Kol Saresk]

Adventure time on Cartoon Network I believe.

[Caffeineated Chaos]

Adventure time on Cartoon Network I believe.

He's right. Wish I didn't know that though. And yeah, count-as Huron is going to be stupid common methinks. I've already decided that he's going to be the count-as for my coryphaus.

[Kol Saresk]

Adventure time on Cartoon Network I believe.

He's right. Wish I didn't know that though. And yeah, count-as Huron is going to be stupid common methinks.

Same here.

 

I've already decided that he's going to be the count-as for my coryphaus.

Hehe. I don't really think I'll have a special character. I'm trying to think of specific tactics and then just build around those and either I don't know enough about Infiltrate to think it viable, or it's just not a tactic I'm going to use.

[Caffeineated Chaos]

I've already decided that he's going to be the count-as for my coryphaus.

Hehe. I don't really think I'll have a special character. I'm trying to think of specific tactics and then just build around those and either I don't know enough about Infiltrate to think it viable, or it's just not a tactic I'm going to use.

Since 6th made our transports lame, and our codex gave us no new transports, and we got cheaper(kinda), making us into a footslogging army, I think the ability to deploy in your opponents backfield is huge, especially 2 or 3 units, I'm thinking in basic lists fully kitted out CSM so they can shoot like mad turn one, and after that get assaulted or assault as necessary depending on opponent's shooting ability.

[Sception]

I LOVE this, where's it from!?

 

As others have mentioned, it's from Adventure Time. He's the Ice King, a recurring antagonist & creeper. The show's pretty funny, if your into that sort of thing. You should probably check it out.

 

...

 

As for special character spam, I've been weighing the idea of doing 'counts as' conversions for all of the codex special characters (well, apart from Abby & Bile, who could be included in my army as is). In particular doing the cult four, I've already got a half-started lord ravager conversion that I think might make a good counts-as Khârn.

[kcwm]

I agree with the idea of Huron giving terminators and their land raider the Infiltrate rule, and/or Khârn with 35 cultists with MoK and pistols. The ones that survive will have 3 attacks on the charge. I've considered running a pack of Warp Talons (jump infantry are still considered to have a base type of infantry...p47) and infiltrating them to get them into CC faster. Infiltrate 18", jump 12" and and charge 6" or infiltrate 12" (if possible), move 6", and jump pack assault for Hammer of Wrath. Can be pretty nasty.

[the jeske]

only you cant charge on turn one . So its infiltrate close to enemy . no shoting abilty . eat incoming fire or enemy move counter units to engage on turn 2.

[Gman]

I was kind of upset myself, having an AL army build from the 4th Ed codex where it was 100% infiltrating footslogging army. I had lots of cultists and CSM, infiltrating havocs the works. Going through this codex I was realized not even the stupid expensive chosen get it? WTH! Personally, considering we don't have the trasport option of drop pods, I think our codex should have infiltrate as a purchasable upgrade, the same as 4th Ed codex did. Screw rolling on a chart and hoping, or taking a counts as Huron. Phhht that, I have a nicely converted up Alpha Legion lord model that I like just as is. I suppose since I did make him with weapons interchangeable, I could easily enough make him a counts as Huron, but don't want to.

 

But then reading the codex again, I found the stuff about how any unit that infiltrates, can not charge first turn. Ohh boy, there goes my heavy scout Ravengaurd army that would assault first turn even if I went first. :) So with that mind, as the jeske said, infiltrate in this edition is only good for setting up your shooters in good positions. And now with rapid fire being able to shoot full range even if you move, it makes foot slogging without infiltrate not so bad.

 

But still, I think if nothing else, to give us another tactical option to use for the case of not having drop pods, we should have it as a purchasable upgrade for none cultist CSM, cultists and chosen.

[Caffeineated Chaos]

As for special character spam, I've been weighing the idea of doing 'counts as' conversions for all of the codex special characters (well, apart from Abby & Bile, who could be included in my army as is). In particular doing the cult four, I've already got a half-started lord ravager conversion that I think might make a good counts-as Khârn.

The cult four work fine in BL, esp for black crusades. Huron however would be less likely, they operate on near opposite ends of the galaxy and tend to be doing stuff at the same time(new fluff w/ huron and other maelstrom-ers distracting the imperium on that side while abbie launches the 13th). But to each his own, personally will only ever field Khârn as Khârn, may do counts-as ahriman sometimes though.

 

Also it occurs to me, you infiltrate your shooty or shooty/assault-y units, and they'll provide a great distraction from regular footslogging assaulters, that's kinda sweet.